Acoustic Characteristics of the Speech of Young Cochlear Implant Users

[jillio]

I just get the feeling that some people here look down on deaf signing kids. I really do feel that way, I dont know why.

I get the same impression. But that just tells me that the motivation behind such attitudes is not what is best for the child, but what is best for the adult.

 

[vallee]

Hi Vallee,

Like you I was born in upstate New York and I ran into the same issues with doctors trying to figure out whats wrong with me. My mother did try to send me to a more specialize school for heard of hearing and deaf students which did not work out and I went back to a mainstream school because I was not challenged enough in the other school. I am a bit older and even in Rochester NY at the time there was not many good educational situations available. I graduated from High school with a regents diploma and decided to go to N.I.T.D. for my engineering degree. I am currently working on bridging the gap between the communications needs of heard of hearing and deaf communities in my state.

That is an awesome goal. I'm in Tennessee now, but my family still lives up there. Looking back over the years so much has changed within the past five years. Technology is amazing. I would love to know what projects you are working on. Alot of the new technology works so well with other disabilities as well.

 

[Buffalo]

So don't feel like you won, all you did is cause others to leave this great site, because you see yourself as the only voice of the Deaf Community.

Only voice??? No, there are many voices of the Deaf Community. Shel90 and many others in AD, including me are for ASL. Are you implying that Jillio is the only one who can speak and Shel90 and I can't???

 

[vallee]

Only voice??? No, there are many voices of the Deaf Community. Shel90 and many others in AD, including me are for ASL. Are you implying that Jillio is the only one who can speak and Shel90 and I can't???

I'm sorry you had to go back and read this. I think the three of us have gotten past that. We have finally gotten progress. I hope you will see that in the last few post.

 

[Buffalo]

So it seems that the real culprit here are the people
who are giving misinformation to parents of Deaf
children. By telling them that learning ASL may
impede the success of the CI they are actually
causing neurological harm to these children. They
are delaying synaptic formation and neurological
connections that would have occured from day
one of birth if they had hearing. Those same
connections can be formed with the use of sign
language.
The delays necessary in CI procedures
are essential, but the delay in aquireing language
is not. I think that studies would show the children
who had access to sign language from birth will
have been better able to understand and utilize
their new CI system.

So whatever choice the parent makes for their
child, CI or No CI, the parent needs to learn ASL
NOW and communicate with that child befor
it is verbal! That would insure success no matter
what choice the parents made for their child because
with either decision the child will have begun to
understand the use of language!

Love your post! Yes, the parents should learn ASL and keep the ASL throughout the child's life in case the CI fails. I am big on deaf education and I don't want the child miss one word in class.

 

[deafskeptic]

Love your post! Yes, the parents should learn ASL and keep the ASL throughout the child's life in case the CI fails. I am big on deaf education and I don't want the child miss one word in class.

Yeah. I wonder why the oralists find this acceptable.

 

[Buffalo]

Jillio - you mean schools for the deaf - not mainstreamed - that are oral only and not just some speech??? I thought deaf schools were bi-bi or TC. Oral only makes no sense to me at all.

The elementary school I attended in 60's was oral school for the deaf. The school now allows sign language since mid 70's. I think St. Jospeh and CID (both of St. Louis) are still oral. Clarke School in Mass. is very oral. In fact we do have a sign name for Clarke which is a 'C' in one hand and with other hand (flat and palm down) inserted inside the 'C' and then move the flat hand up and down and you can see the open mouth with tongue flapping.

 

[Buffalo]

Do you remember way back when Cloggy created a thread which the title would go as "When expecting a child, would you want it to be deaf?" I found that thread to be the most offensive thread in the history of cochlear implant sub-forum.

From what I know of Cloggy, I am not surprised he said that. I wasn't here back then.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Jillo,
this is exactly why I have placed my children in our local high school. I do have problems with the school districts ensuring they have what they need to succeed. And no it is not easy doing all this but this is what job as a parent is to ensure my children have what they need.
Although I have problems with the district, the teachers are all accepting and open to all of my suggestions. The teachers have even told the district that CART has worked wonders with my daughter. I am not sure where you are from but all the programs I have seen out here that are TC have low expectations for their deaf students. The only program I think does a pretty jod job with its students is University High School, moving down there is not an options for us.
I have to deal with what we have and it is working out for my children and my children are happy and living up to their high expectations.

What are TODs

Yep, its your choice.

If terps were doing everything for her, they were way overstepping their bounds.

Most TC programs don't use terps. They use TODs that are fluent in sign.

And you don't find those low expectations in an environment that has trainign and experience in deaf edcuation. It is only those who don't have a clue that have lowered expectation. Which is why children should be placed where they are not subjected to those lowered expectations and then provided the skills necessary to live up to the higher expectations.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

The key word is "general education teachers". U said that they had low expectations for these children and it is a tragedy just because the children rely on sign language, because they are expected to perform lower? I cant believe this view! That is what Jillo and I are trying to tell u. Those teachers have no idea what to do with deaf children so why arent u taking action to change the program to make it better for those children?

Maybe, we shoudl keep all children at the Deaf schools where they are placed with educators who specialize in the education of the deaf in the least restrictive environment?

I cannot change what these teacher feel or think. They have about 5 teachers of deaf that sign there, why would they listen an oral teacher of deaf that is a parents that makes do thing they do not want too.

I do not have that kind of power. So I did what was in the best interest of my children and moved to a higher performing school.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

That's what I have seen in the mainstreamed program in AZ..the terps were doing everything for their students and not allowing them to make mistakes. They were definitely overstepping their boundaries. No wonder kids leave school with no knowledge of how to advocate for themselves. Geez!

Yes, this happen a lot at my daughter's old school. When my daughter would need to talk to the teacher, they (terps) would talk for her, I asked them not to do this and they said it went against their code of ethics that they had to talk for her. You are so right children need to learn how to advocate for themselves. And my daughter is now able to do this and getting better at it every day.

 

[jillio]

Yes, this happen a lot at my daughter's old school. When my daughter would need to talk to the teacher, they (terps) would talk for her, I asked them not to do this and they said it went against their code of ethics that they had to talk for her. You are so right children need to learn how to advocate for themselves. And my daughter is now able to do this and getting better at it every day.

If I am not mistaken, and I don't believe I am on this point, it is completely unethical for the terp to speak for the deaf individual. It is the terp's function to give voice to what the deaf individual signs, and to provide sign for what the hearing person has said. If the terps were making statements for your daughter, i.e. saying what they thought rather than what she herself stated, they were in violation of the code of ethics. A terp is not, under any circumstances, to add their personal viewpoint, opinion, or belief to what is being interpreted.

However, if they were simply giving voice to a deaf student's signs, then the deaf student would be advocating for his or herself. This is because it is the deaf student's communication that was being voiced, not the personal opinion of the terp. Advocating for oneself is not dependent upon being able to speak, but to state one's wishes in any language.

 

[shel90]

If I am not mistaken, and I don't believe I am on this point, it is completely unethical for the terp to speak for the deaf individual. It is the terp's function to give voice to what the deaf individual signs, and to provide sign for what the hearing person has said. If the terps were making statements for your daughter, i.e. saying what they thought rather than what she herself stated, they were in violation of the code of ethics. A terp is not, under any circumstances, to add their personal viewpoint, opinion, or belief to what is being interpreted.

However, if they were simply giving voice to a deaf student's signs, then the deaf student would be advocating for his or herself. This is because it is the deaf student's communication that was being voiced, not the personal opinion of the terp. Advocating for oneself is not dependent upon being able to speak, but to state one's wishes in any language.

Yea, I agree..makes me wonder if what Jackie saw was that the terps were just simply voicing what the deaf children signed rather than doing the thinking for them? If the terps were just interpreting for the deaf students, then they are doing their jobs.

Jackie, first you said the "general" education teachers were the ones who had low expectations for the deaf students and then u said that the teachers signed there so who was having the low expectations of the students? The general education teachers as in the teacher who also teach the hearing students or the signing teachers who work in deaf education?

Something doesnt look right to me.

 

[shel90]

Maybe that is the difference between oral and signing deaf students. My son by the age of 4 would tell me when I was driving that I was going the wrong way. He would tell me no mom left now, right now, go 5 minutes.

Jackie, you still havent answered my question about what u meant by that comment.

 

[shel90]

I get the same impression. But that just tells me that the motivation behind such attitudes is not what is best for the child, but what is best for the adult.

I agree...some things here are beginning to look suspicous to me.

 

[jillio]

I agree...some things here are beginning to look suspicous to me.

Too many contradictions.

 

[deafdyke]

but all the programs I have seen out here that are TC have low expectations for their deaf students.

That's generally b/c TC programs serve as a last resort placement. Like the parents are burnt out, (very few parents actively chose sign as an option for their dhh kids) or not involved or whatever. It's a lot more complicated then just blaming it on methodology. There are *gasp* bad oral programs out there too you know. The reason why oral schools seem to be better is due to the private school effect. Most oral programs are private. They can pick and choose who to admit, and they can also employ PR pretty well, so that it seems like they are really doing well, when in fact they really aren't doing too great.
Also, even if the higher grades aren't that great, the early grades tend to be a lot better.
Jackie, what you don't understand is that your children's experiance in the public schools, being oral and mainstreamed was somewhat atypical. It's great that they're doing well, but not all oral and mainstreamed kids do as well.
Hey maybe the reason they did so well was b/c they are honors students. Perhaps if they were a bit more average in terms of academic acheivement you would have experianced a lot more of the downsides of being oral and mainstreamed.
It's exactly like how at an inner city school, althou there are kids who drop out and are slackers and druggies and gangbangers, there are still some kids who acheive!

 

[Kaitin]

What are TODs

TODs = Teachers Of the Deaf

A repeat:

Hi, Jackie:

After reading articles lately I have bad opinion of most oral programs for deaf - maybe not for people with good word comprehension etc with HAs but I still don't understand no ASL for deaf or HoH. Will you please explain oral education - why you like this and who should do oral in your opinion (all deaf and HoH, some etc)? And when you say you are a oralist do you mean 100% voice and no ASL at all? Do you think oral education has a bad history in the US? Maybe I don't have a fair idea about oral education.

 

[Cheri]

If I am not mistaken, and I don't believe I am on this point, it is completely unethical for the terp to speak for the deaf individual. .

Interpreters sometimes do speak for the deaf person who's signing, but that all depends on the deaf individuals if they want to use their voice to ask a teacher a question, for all that means they may. I've done it during my high school years, when I raise my hand, and a teacher calls my name, I would voice my question, and the interpreter would know that she/he would not needed to voice the question for me.

If a teacher does not understand a deaf student's question the interpreter then will voice the question again for the deaf student. That's one reason why interpreters are there for the deaf, in case we need them.

When I was in public schools with no interpreters, it was more frustrated to understand the teacher by reading her lips the whole entire period, because sometimes the teacher intends to face the board and begins to talk, how can a deaf people reads the teacher's lips when her back is facing the deaf students face? (that was an oral method program)

 

[jillio]

Interpreters sometimes do speak for the deaf person who's signing, but that all depends on the deaf individuals if they want to use their voice to ask a teacher a question, for all that means they may. I've done it during my high school years, when I raise my hand, and a teacher calls my name, I would voice my question, and the interpreter would know that she/he would not needed to voice the question for me.

If a teacher does not understand a deaf student's question the interpreter then will voice the question again for the deaf student. That's one reason why interpreters are there for the deaf, in case we need them.

When I was in public schools with no interpreters, it was more frustrated to understand the teacher by reading her lips the whole entire period, because sometimes the teacher intends to face the board and begins to talk, how can a deaf people reads the teacher's lips when her back is facing the deaf students face? (that was an oral method program)

I understand what you are saying, but that is still communicating the student's thoughts and words to the teacher. What jackie was saying was that the terps spoke for her daughter, and that would mean that they told the teachers what the terps wanted to say, and not what the student was saying. If the terp is just voicing for the student, it is still the student's communication being voiced.

Maybe the terps were re-stating something jackie's daughter said becasue the teacher couldn't understand her speech? IDK.

I still question the fact that a TC program is using terps instead of signing TODs.