Acoustic Characteristics of the Speech of Young Cochlear Implant Users

vallee,

I offer you the same advice that I offered to Jackie, do not feel that you have to explain or justify what you or your mother felt and/or did especially to jillio for she has no interest in what you say other than to twist your words and attempt to use them out of context against you.

Rick

Huh? twisting what? If she is twisting vallees words, then show where she is doing that. All she is trying to clarify some comments vallee made..is that such a bad thing to do? I am doing the same so I guess I am twisting Vallee's words around as well?
 
I have, and you still did not answer the question I asked, you keep going on and on about oral and public school, what does this have to do with the Deaf community???

I agree...The Deaf community is not responsible for the policies that were set forth by the oral and mainstreamed programs.

From what I understand, Vallee's mother was turned away by some schools because she wasnt deaf enough. It doesnt matter if those schools were Deaf schools or public schools, the administrators or the reps from the dept of Education on the state level were responsible for it not the Deaf community.
 
Huh? twisting what? If she is twisting vallees words, then show where she is doing that. All she is trying to clarify some comments vallee made..is that such a bad thing to do? I am doing the same so I guess I am twisting Vallee's words around as well?

:ty: Shel. Why is it he insists on accusing others of doing what he himself is guilty of?
 
I agree...The Deaf community is not responsible for the policies that were set forth by the oral and mainstreamed programs.

From what I understand, Vallee's mother was turned away by some schools because she wasnt deaf enough. It doesnt matter if those schools were Deaf schools or public schools, the administrators or the reps from the dept of Education on the state level were responsible for it not the Deaf community.

Exactly Thank you....
 
:ty: Shel. Why is it he insists on accusing others of doing what he himself is guilty of?

Geez...it is getting old. I felt things were progressing well with Vallee...oh well.

We will always be the "bad" ones. :dunno:
 
It was nice discussing and debating with u vallee and I hope u can see where Jillo and I are coming from. We just put the children first not the parents and maybe to some people, that is offensive. I wont hold it against u if u dont believe what we believe in but just keep in mind about the injustice that is being done to so many innocent deaf children all over in the educational settings. I have experienced being personally and professionally involved in both kinds of approaches and I base my views on both experiences not just my personal experiences.

I have seen more positive attributes at the Deaf schools than at the mainstreamed/Oral-only programs. Kids are always included everywhere they go, they never rely on a 3rd person, never have to rely on CART systems, interact freely with all adults and other kids, and most important, have full acess to language both receptively and expressively. That's the best educational setting for deaf/hoh children. No, Deaf schools arent perfect but the goals are targeted to meet every deaf/hoh children's needs.
 
It was nice discussing and debating with u vallee and I hope u can see where Jillo and I are coming from. We just put the children first not the parents and maybe to some people, that is offensive. I wont hold it against u if u dont believe what we believe in but just keep in mind about the injustice that is being done to so many innocent deaf children all over in the educational settings. I have experienced being personally and professionally involved in both kinds of approaches and I base my views on both experiences not just my personal experiences.

I have seen more positive attributes at the Deaf schools than at the mainstreamed/Oral-only programs. Kids are always included everywhere they go, they never rely on a 3rd person, never have to rely on CART systems, interact freely with all adults and other kids, and most important, have full acess to language both receptively and expressively. That's the best educational setting for deaf/hoh children. No, Deaf schools arent perfect but the goals are targeted to meet every deaf/hoh children's needs.

Very well put, shel. And as you already know, I am in complete agreement with you.
 
Hope this explains

I got up early to talk to my mom this morning. Not sure she likes to be awaken this early. Please read the whole thing first before posting.

We need to remember the time in history. I was born in 1968, I started school in 1974. There was not a lot of services available for a child with a mild-moderate hearing loss. Occurring to my mom, she did try and get me into a Deaf school. Yes, I did not meet the criteria at the time. She believes she tried other resources within the Deaf community. She was not sure why she did not use those services. it could be she was not assisted, welcomed, or she felt scare. She can't rememeber all the details. You have to remember from past post I said that the doctors and audies did not help her either. I went from doctor to doctor to find out what was "wrong" with me. I went 7 years without a HA. This is during the most important part of languge development. So now she made her choice.

My mom chose to raise me oral. She chose to help me to develop my language and speech skills. She did not turn her back on anything, she just chose to do it her way. Even when we moved from upstate New York(Kingston area) to rural Georgia, she kept her outlook. When I was fitted with my hearing aid she make sure that the teachers knew what to do. She made sure I was in the front of the room and I asked for help when needed. A little background - Mom was a single parent most of the time with 3 girls. We were lower income. Both of my older sisters are gifted(both test and placed in gifted programs.) Honestly school was not difficult except for spelling.

As my hearing took a turn in high school, she was not sure where to turn so she went to Voc Reh. They worked with me in my Senior year and college. Remember I'm not failing school, I was active in school and mainstreamed. I did not use an FM system or any accommodations. My teachers looked out for me, by giving me the notes from other students and just taking care of me. Even with a profound - severe hearing loss I took Spanish. My Spanish teacher would sit in front of me and make the words so I could understand. During her planning period she would take time to do this. I asked she did not question. I was raised with to accept my hearing loss and ask for help as needed.

I do not blame the Deaf Community or even the Hearing Community. My mom made her choice to raise me oral because of her experiences back 35 years ago. To me it does not matter if it was a hearing person at the Deaf School or a deaf person, my mom did not feel she got the services she needed for me. So she created what I needed.

I became a regular education teacher back 15 years ago for one simple reason, I wanted to make sure all children were treated with respect in my classroom and in my school. I wanted to make sure no child was placed in the back of the room, no child was treated differently because of what he wore to school, and parents felt welcome to ask questions and help from me. I changed to special ed so I could assist the all students more. I used my personal experience to make a change in the educational system.

Now as an adult that is completely deaf with these wonderful CIs, I did seek out the Deaf Community. My first stop is here! Now there are two conclusions - one the door can be shut on me or two I can be welcomed in with a vary of resources I need to assist my family and myself. At this point It can go either way.
 
I got up early to talk to my mom this morning. Not sure she likes to be awaken this early. Please read the whole thing first before posting.

We need to remember the time in history. I was born in 1968, I started school in 1974. There was not a lot of services available for a child with a mild-moderate hearing loss. Occurring to my mom, she did try and get me into a Deaf school. Yes, I did not meet the criteria at the time. She believes she tried other resources within the Deaf community. She was not sure why she did not use those services. it could be she was not assisted, welcomed, or she felt scare. She can't rememeber all the details. You have to remember from past post I said that the doctors and audies did not help her either. I went from doctor to doctor to find out what was "wrong" with me. I went 7 years without a HA. This is during the most important part of languge development. So now she made her choice.

My mom chose to raise me oral. She chose to help me to develop my language and speech skills. She did not turn her back on anything, she just chose to do it her way. Even when we moved from upstate New York(Kingston area) to rural Georgia, she kept her outlook. When I was fitted with my hearing aid she make sure that the teachers knew what to do. She made sure I was in the front of the room and I asked for help when needed. A little background - Mom was a single parent most of the time with 3 girls. We were lower income. Both of my older sisters are gifted(both test and placed in gifted programs.) Honestly school was not difficult except for spelling.

As my hearing took a turn in high school, she was not sure where to turn so she went to Voc Reh. They worked with me in my Senior year and college. Remember I'm not failing school, I was active in school and mainstreamed. I did not use an FM system or any accommodations. My teachers looked out for me, by giving me the notes from other students and just taking care of me. Even with a profound - severe hearing loss I took Spanish. My Spanish teacher would sit in front of me and make the words so I could understand. During her planning period she would take time to do this. I asked she did not question. I was raised with to accept my hearing loss and ask for help as needed.

I do not blame the Deaf Community or even the Hearing Community. My mom made her choice to raise me oral because of her experiences back 35 years ago. To me it does not matter if it was a hearing person at the Deaf School or a deaf person, my mom did not feel she got the services she needed for me. So she created what I needed.

I became a regular education teacher back 15 years ago for one simple reason, I wanted to make sure all children were treated with respect in my classroom and in my school. I wanted to make sure no child was placed in the back of the room, no child was treated differently because of what he wore to school, and parents felt welcome to ask questions and help from me. I changed to special ed so I could assist the all students more. I used my personal experience to make a change in the educational system.

Now as an adult that is completely deaf with these wonderful CIs, I did seek out the Deaf Community. My first stop is here! Now there are two conclusions - one the door can be shut on me or two I can be welcomed in with a vary of resources I need to assist my family and myself. At this point It can go either way.


Thanks for sharing, Vallee.

The Deaf community didnt have the luxury of making the policies and critera for the Deaf schools back then. Deaf schools were run mostly by hearing administrators who probably didnt have as much knowledge on how to meet the needs of deaf/hoh children as they do today.

Well, to be honest with u...I havent seen u participate in the other threads , just only the CI ones so it seems that u are interested in only interacting with those who have CIs. Correct me if I am wrong. Do u go out in the Deaf community in your area, go to Deaf shows, socials, or clubs?

I dont know if it matters to u but wouldnt u want to be placed in an educational setting where u could understand everyone at all times? I thought what I had in the educational setting was the best that I could have until I went to Gallaudet and for the first time in my life, I could understand everyone at all times, during lectures, debates, discussions, and so much more. That was when it really hit me hard about how much I missed out in the educational setting growing up.
 
Thanks for sharing, Vallee.

The Deaf community didnt have the luxury of making the policies and critera for the Deaf schools back then. Deaf schools were run mostly by hearing administrators who probably didnt have as much knowledge on how to meet the needs of deaf/hoh children as they do today.

Well, to be honest with u...I havent seen u participate in the other threads , just only the CI ones so it seems that u are interested in only interacting with those who have CIs. Correct me if I am wrong. Do u go out in the Deaf community in your area, go to Deaf shows, socials, or clubs?

I dont know if it matters to u but wouldnt u want to be placed in an educational setting where u could understand everyone at all times? I thought what I had in the educational setting was the best that I could have until I went to Gallaudet and for the first time in my life, I could understand everyone at all times, during lectures, debates, discussions, and so much more. That was when it really hit me hard about how much I missed out in the educational setting growing up.

Your right about the educational enivornment back then. About posting in other threads, I do read a lot them. I'm taking baby steps, I did post in the 80's thread. Most of it comes down the time, I have alot going on with my daughter dancing 4 nights a week and teaching.

I can see your point on education, I enjoyed mine so I'm not sure I would change it. It is just an individual choice. My high school was fantastic. How many places can you go from greenhouse - 3 years to honors Physics and Yearbook. It just worked for me.
 
Thanks for sharing, Vallee.

Well, to be honest with u...I havent seen u participate in the other threads , just only the CI ones so it seems that u are interested in only interacting with those who have CIs. Correct me if I am wrong. Do u go out in the Deaf community in your area, go to Deaf shows, socials, or clubs?

.

I have a meeting in Nashville next Saturday with the League of Deaf and Hearing Loss. I have been out with the Deaf community at a church. I did find out about sign language course being offered. My daughter will go with me. I did one years ago.
 
I got up early to talk to my mom this morning. Not sure she likes to be awaken this early. Please read the whole thing first before posting.

We need to remember the time in history. I was born in 1968, I started school in 1974. There was not a lot of services available for a child with a mild-moderate hearing loss. Occurring to my mom, she did try and get me into a Deaf school. Yes, I did not meet the criteria at the time. She believes she tried other resources within the Deaf community. She was not sure why she did not use those services. it could be she was not assisted, welcomed, or she felt scare. She can't rememeber all the details. You have to remember from past post I said that the doctors and audies did not help her either. I went from doctor to doctor to find out what was "wrong" with me. I went 7 years without a HA. This is during the most important part of languge development. So now she made her choice.

My mom chose to raise me oral. She chose to help me to develop my language and speech skills. She did not turn her back on anything, she just chose to do it her way. Even when we moved from upstate New York(Kingston area) to rural Georgia, she kept her outlook. When I was fitted with my hearing aid she make sure that the teachers knew what to do. She made sure I was in the front of the room and I asked for help when needed. A little background - Mom was a single parent most of the time with 3 girls. We were lower income. Both of my older sisters are gifted(both test and placed in gifted programs.) Honestly school was not difficult except for spelling.

As my hearing took a turn in high school, she was not sure where to turn so she went to Voc Reh. They worked with me in my Senior year and college. Remember I'm not failing school, I was active in school and mainstreamed. I did not use an FM system or any accommodations. My teachers looked out for me, by giving me the notes from other students and just taking care of me. Even with a profound - severe hearing loss I took Spanish. My Spanish teacher would sit in front of me and make the words so I could understand. During her planning period she would take time to do this. I asked she did not question. I was raised with to accept my hearing loss and ask for help as needed.

I do not blame the Deaf Community or even the Hearing Community. My mom made her choice to raise me oral because of her experiences back 35 years ago. To me it does not matter if it was a hearing person at the Deaf School or a deaf person, my mom did not feel she got the services she needed for me. So she created what I needed.

I became a regular education teacher back 15 years ago for one simple reason, I wanted to make sure all children were treated with respect in my classroom and in my school. I wanted to make sure no child was placed in the back of the room, no child was treated differently because of what he wore to school, and parents felt welcome to ask questions and help from me. I changed to special ed so I could assist the all students more. I used my personal experience to make a change in the educational system.

Now as an adult that is completely deaf with these wonderful CIs, I did seek out the Deaf Community. My first stop is here! Now there are two conclusions - one the door can be shut on me or two I can be welcomed in with a vary of resources I need to assist my family and myself. At this point It can go either way.

Vallee,

You are the product of the system 35 years ago. I think we all agree that 35 years ago, the system did not function well, and was in the process of recovering from 100 years of forced oralism that was instituted with the Milan Congress and solidified through the philosophies of A.G. Bell. This is a part of history that makes the Deaf community so opposed to practices that resemble anything close to those discriminatory and oppressive policies.

No one faults your mother for doing what she did 35 years ago. It was a different time and different attitudes toward deafness were prevalent. We did not have the advantage of the modern research that has since been done in the field of deaf ed, nor of the linguistic research that has been done.

Just as AG Bell's theories on genetics that were used as justification for his soft eugenics movement have proven to be flawed, so have many of the educational, liguistic, and psychosocial developmental theories since proven to be flawed and innacurrate. I have seen untold new developments in the time since my son was diagnosed in 1987.

The time to let go of outdated ways of thinking and restrictive educational policies is way past due. Yes, these things happened in the past, and they are collectively responsible for many of the attitudes and values of the deaf/Deaf population today. And rightly so. Those attitudes and values are the foundation on which the push for better education and increased acceptance and tolerance of the Deaf community as a cultural and linguistic minority as opposed to a disabled population. That is the movement to which shel and I both feel a strong affiliation.

Like shel, I agree that if you are truly seeking out the Deaf Community, you would benefit from getting to know deaf/Deaf people by venturing out into other threads. Chat with these people one on one without the conflict of CI coming into the discussion. Find out what they are thinking, what they are feeling, how they live their lives on a daily basis, and learn a bit of the history on which the concept of Deaf Culture is built.

I know from personal experience that the Nashville area has a strong and vital signing Deaf community. They made themselves readily available to me when my son was diagnosed at the very hospital where you received your CIs. When he was attending preschool at Bill Wilkerson Speech and Hearing Center, the League for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing (then known as the League for the Hearing Impaired for PC reasons) those Deaf indiviuals were my teachers, my mentors, and my friends. And the fact that the League has changed its name is evidence of the push to recognize the Deaf community on their own cultural and linguistic terms that has occured just since my son was diagnosed 20 years ago. Reach out to them. They are there and they are available. Approach them on their terms, and I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Ask them to teach you about their world, to share their experiences with you, and they will gladly comply with your request. However, I must also caution you, if you approach them with the defensiveness that you have often shown in your posts here, you will be met with the same reaction you have gotten here. You cannot ask to be accepted into a different culture unless you are willing to venture in with an open mind. If one wants to learn about a different culture, one must approach the learning experience understanding first and foremost that the members of that culture are the true experts and teachers, and you are the student who needs to be taught. That is the basic premise of any cross cultural study, and the foundation of participant/observer methods used in anthropological studies of other cultures. And it is the only way that true learning and understanding is accomplished.
 
I have a meeting in Nashville next Saturday with the League of Deaf and Hearing Loss. I have been out with the Deaf community at a church. I did find out about sign language course being offered. My daughter will go with me. I did one years ago.

Good for you. Enter into this meeting with an open mind, and I think you will br well on your way to a new perspective.
 
My parents were somewhat the same as your mother Vallee, but the problem were there wasn't enough informations or resources back in the old days as there are more now, My parents did not know how to raise a deaf child, didn't know there was a Deaf Community , my grandmother seek information not sure where exactly, but somehow she knew about sign language. My sister and I were raise oral, attend speech therapy and mainstreamed, didn't do well at all, I was having trouble in most of my classes but I don't blame my parents at all. In reality, these are decisions that parents of deaf children face and make everyday, and it never easy at least they tried to the best of their abilities..

Thanks for sharing your story here Vallee, :)
 
My parents were somewhat the same as your mother Vallee, but the problem were there wasn't enough informations or resources back in the old days as there are more now, My parents did not know how to raise a deaf child, didn't know there was a Deaf Community , my grandmother seek information not sure where exactly, but somehow she knew about sign language. My sister and I were raise oral, attend speech therapy and mainstreamed, didn't do well at all, I was having trouble in most of my classes but I don't blame my parents at all. In reality, these are decisions that parents of deaf children face and make everyday, and it never easy at least they tried to the best of their abilities..

Thanks for sharing your story here Vallee, :)

**nodding agreement** I think we are about to get this thread back to a productive form of discussion.
 
I have a meeting in Nashville next Saturday with the League of Deaf and Hearing Loss. I have been out with the Deaf community at a church. I did find out about sign language course being offered. My daughter will go with me. I did one years ago.

That's good Vallee.
 
:cool:


Seeing how this thread has made a 'turn' in the right direction whereas it's becoming more productive and civil-like, the coming 'together' despite our own backgrounds, ideas and opinions.

Please do carry on--posting more constructive and meaningful posts whereas each can derive from in a good positive way..for the sake of all factions/cultures alike. Imagine some of the posts posted earlier in this thread may have created a few to cringe, turn-off, etc., rather than trying to find some common ground whereas each member can peacefully discuss rationally as well as being able to agree to disagree--respectfully.



:ty:

~RR
 
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