Acoustic Characteristics of the Speech of Young Cochlear Implant Users

[jillio]

So let me get this straight you are say that since Jackie's son is deaf that he can't have an IQ in the above average range?

She never made that comment that he was a genius. My daughter did things as a young child that I was amazed at. Every child does.

Did I say above average? I don't think so. Show me where I said above average. I said in the genius range. A child who graps the concepts she attributed to her son would have to have an IQ in the genius range because those concepts are too developmentally advanced for even a hearing child with an above average IQ. If you don't understand what is being said, jsut say so, and I will explain it in simpler terms for you. Also, please show me where I said a deaf child cannot have an IQ int he above average range, or where I said jackie said her son is a genius. Stop trying to twist the words around to make them appear to say something that was never said. OIf you are going to make these accusations, then you need to be able to support them. Otherwise, they are nothing more than atttempts to attack and inflame. Grounds for banning.

 

[jillio]

What do u mean by the difference? Is that your way of implying that oral deaf are superiror to signing deaf? Pls tell me that is not what u mean cuz if it is what u mean, u not only insulted me but many others who value ASL on this board.

Yep, you got it. And now she is trying to backpedal and say "That's not what I meant." Contradictions, contradictions!

 

[vallee]

Yes it is..it made my life a living hell and the same went for many of my friends who grew up oral only. My best friend is on anxiety meds now cuz she grew up always anxious to what others think of her cuz she could never understand what was happening most of the time. It is a horrible thing to do to children. About those children who fall behind and get sent to deaf schools as a last resort is also horrible. I dont see anything good about just strictly oral only only. I see good in using BOTH and I will never ever understand why many people see ASL as the evil thing that interferes with deaf children's ability to be oral.

I was brought up in an oral environment and it was difficult, but I'm glad about the choices my mom made. She thought it was for the best. I don't think ASL is an evil thing. I think it is an amazing incredible language. I do believe that many parents researched and picked the best way they feel to raise their children.

The parents who are lost(you know what a mean by that). The ones who are overwhelmed and scared, need a caring approach inorder to understand they do have choices. They need to be shown that the Deaf culture is a wonderful environment to raise a child. If the Deaf community or even the Oral community can not show this then how can they even make a choice. If they feel attacked or pushed away from either then, how would the parent feel?

 

[shel90]

Jillo
You have mention many times how I always bring it back to my children. The thing is you are partly right, I do have over 15 years of experience raising oral deaf children. But on top of that I have been teaching oral deaf children for over 8 years. I have taken numerous courses on cochlear implants, auditory verbal therapy, auditory training, and many other courses related to the education of oral deaf children. When I post things, I am not just talking about my children, but also the education and experience I have and about my current and past students. Just in case you forgot I have BS in child development, MS education done through John Tracy Clnic, level I education specialist credential in mild/moderate, and a level II in education specialist in deaf/hard of hearing. And if everything goes according to my plan I will be a certified auditory verbal therapist this summer.

Where did the idea of oral deaf education come from? From AG Bell and the Milan Conference. Terrible things were done to deaf children since then if u havent read Kaitlin's research about the history of oral deaf education. U were the one who said that u believe that ASL will interfere with children's spoken language development when u first joined. Right there, u devalued the importance of ASL from the get go with your comment in the thread "District Files Appeal Against Deaf Student."

Why do u take our disagreements with the oral-only philosophy as a personal attack on you? It has nothing to do with u as a person but everything to do with the approach.

 

[jillio]

Where did the idea of oral deaf education come from? From AG Bell and the Milan Conference. Terrible things were done to deaf children since then if u havent read Kaitlin's research about the history of oral deaf education. U were the one who said that u believe that ASL will interfere with children's spoken language development when u first joined. Right there, u devalued the importance of ASL from the get go with your comment in the thread "District Files Appeal Against Deaf Student."

Why do u take our disagreements with the oral-only philosophy as a personal attack on you? It has nothing to do with u as a person but everything to do with the approach.

Exactly. They try to turn everything into a personal assault onthem so they can justify their own behavior.

 

[jillio]

I was brought up in an oral environment and it was difficult, but I'm glad about the choices my mom made. She thought it was for the best. I don't think ASL is an evil thing. I think it is an amazing incredible language. I do believe that many parents researched and picked the best way they feel to raise their children.

The parents who are lost(you know what a mean by that). The ones who are overwhelmed and scared, need a caring approach inorder to understand they do have choices. They need to be shown that the Deaf culture is a wonderful environment to raise a child. If the Deaf community or even the Oral community can not show this then how can they even make a choice. If they feel attacked or pushed away from either then, how would the parent feel?

And they can quite obviously see that it is the oralists who are doing the attacking. Perhaps you should clean up your own act before hurling accusations at others.

 

[shel90]

I was brought up in an oral environment and it was difficult, but I'm glad about the choices my mom made. She thought it was for the best. I don't think ASL is an evil thing. I think it is an amazing incredible language. I do believe that many parents researched and picked the best way they feel to raise their children.

The parents who are lost(you know what a mean by that). The ones who are overwhelmed and scared, need a caring approach inorder to understand they do have choices. They need to be shown that the Deaf culture is a wonderful environment to raise a child. If the Deaf community or even the Oral community can not show this then how can they even make a choice. If they feel attacked or pushed away from either then, how would the parent feel?

Because the oralists tell the parents about ASL interfering with their children's spoken language if the parents ever want their child to develop spoken language. That is where I get furious about cuz it pushes the parents away from ASL and the Deaf community right away. I have worked in the field of deaf education for a long time and that is what I get told by the parents of those children who fell so far behind. Heck, even one parent admitted that she had to sign a consent form not allowing her child to be exposed to sign language. Can u believe that BS? That is why I dont believe the oral only philosophy really looks out for the deaf children's needs but instead looks out for what the parents' wants or needs. The need to make their deaf child's deafness as invisible as possible. As a result many deaf children suffer. The key word is "many".

I thought children's needs come first before the parents?

 

[vallee]

Did I say above average? I don't think so. Show me where I said above average. I said in the genius range. A child who graps the concepts she attributed to her son would have to ahve an IQ in the genius range because those concepts are too developmentally advanced for even a hearing child with an above average IQ. If you don't understand what is being said, jsut say so, and I will explain it in simpler terms for you.

Please explain it in simpler terms.

I don't think it is the clock business, it is that you do not respect the parents who raise their children in an oral environment or even in Cued environment.

I do understand if a child is a genius. I do understand what you are saying, But you lost the point in what I was saying.

 

[jillio]

Because the oralists tell the parents about ASL interfering with their children's spoken language if the parents ever want their child to develop spoken language. That is where I get furious about cuz it pushes the parents away from ASL and the Deaf community right away. I have worked in the field of deaf education for a long time and that is what I get told by the parents of those children who fell so far behind. Heck, even one parent admitted that she had to sign a consent form not allowing her child to be exposed to sign language. Can u believe that BS? That is why I dont believe the oral only philosophy really looks out for the deaf children's needs but instead looks out for what the parents want or need. The need to make their deaf child's deafness as invisible as possible. As a result many deaf children suffer. The key word is "many".

 

[shel90]

I was brought up in an oral environment and it was difficult, but I'm glad about the choices my mom made. She thought it was for the best. I don't think ASL is an evil thing. I think it is an amazing incredible language. I do believe that many parents researched and picked the best way they feel to raise their children.

The parents who are lost(you know what a mean by that). The ones who are overwhelmed and scared, need a caring approach inorder to understand they do have choices. They need to be shown that the Deaf culture is a wonderful environment to raise a child. If the Deaf community or even the Oral community can not show this then how can they even make a choice. If they feel attacked or pushed away from either then, how would the parent feel?

The Deaf community is not known for attacking parents who come to them for help with ASL or learning more about deafness. It is when the parents tell the Deaf community that their child doesnt need to learn sign and is better off being around hearing children is when Deaf people feel insulted and belittled. That is discrimination right there. Maybe u dont see it but I see it happening all the time.

 

[jillio]

Please explain it in simpler terms.

I don't think it is the clock business, it is that you do not respect the parents who raise their children in an oral environment or even in Cued environment.

I do understand if a child is a genius. I do understand what you are saying, But you lost the point in what I was saying.

I didn't loose the point in what you were saying at all, vallee. You attributed comments to me that I did not make. My reference was tothe fact that a 4 year old is not developmentally capable of grasping and communicating the concepts that jackie claimed her son was capable of grasping and communicating at that age. That is deaf or hearing. Unless that child has a genius level IQ. Period. Whether that child is oral, or a signer, or a CS child has absolutely nothing to do with it. Educational or home language environment has nothing to do with it. It is a developmental issue.

And to claim that a 4 year old can do these things simply because they were raised orally is false.

 

[shel90]

Please explain it in simpler terms.

I don't think it is the clock business, it is that you do not respect the parents who raise their children in an oral environment or even in Cued environment.

I do understand if a child is a genius. I do understand what you are saying, But you lost the point in what I was saying.

It is not about the parents...it is about meeting the children's visual needs. Why do we need to respect the parents' needs for education before the children's needs for education? Children come first.

 

[vallee]

Because the oralists tell the parents about ASL interfering with their children's spoken language if the parents ever want their child to develop spoken language. That is where I get furious about cuz it pushes the parents away from ASL and the Deaf community right away. I have worked in the field of deaf education for a long time and that is what I get told by the parents of those children who fell so far behind. Heck, even one parent admitted that she had to sign a consent form not allowing her child to be exposed to sign language. Can u believe that BS? That is why I dont believe the oral only philosophy really looks out for the deaf children's needs but instead looks out for what the parents want or need. The need to make their deaf child's deafness as invisible as possible. As a result many deaf children suffer. The key word is "many".

I can agree that it is wrong to force parents to not allow their children to educated in the best environment and being allowed to use ASL if they chose too.

I just hate to use the term all. I don't agree that all oralist believe this. Just like all Deaf Community believe one way. I just don't understand why there can't be a middle ground.

I can't agree that all parents of deaf children feel this way. My mom was proud of my progress and how I handled my hearing loss. From age 3 to 10 there was not HAs for me, they would not fit me with one. I was profound loss by 18 and deaf in right ear by 26. She never hid me or made me invisible. She told me I could handle the world. And she said she would have implanted me in high school, if the technology was right for me then.

 

[shel90]

I can agree that it is wrong to force parents to not allow their children to educated in the best environment and being allowed to use ASL if they chose too.

I just hate to use the term all. I don't agree that all oralist believe this. Just like all Deaf Community believe one way. I just don't understand why there can't be a middle ground.

I can't agree that all parents of deaf children feel this way. My mom was proud of my progress and how I handled my hearing loss. From age 3 to 10 there was not HAs for me, they would not fit me with one. I was profound loss by 18 and deaf in right ear by 26. She never hid me or made me invisible. She told me I could handle the world. And she said she would have implanted me in high school, if the technology was right for me then.

Many Deaf people in the Deaf community support the use of both. Heck, I have many Deaf friends who grew up going to Deaf schools with ASL as their first language who also have developed good oral skills and they use them when needed. I dont see anyone attacking them. Maybe there are a few who are extreme ASLers but they dont represent the whole Deaf community.

Why didnt your mom expose you to ASL and the Deaf community? My mom thought it would slow down my development so she didnt expose me to either one of them. Pretty pathetic, huh but I dont blame her cuz she was brainwashed by those oralists.

 

[vallee]

It is not about the parents...it is about meeting the children's visual needs. Why do we need to respect the parents' needs for education before the children's needs for education? Children come first.

Well children do come first, but we respect religious beliefs and culture in education. We don't put Halloween up or say the word witches or ghost. We celebrate celebrations not Christmas. I know it is not completely the same, but to many parents they might feel this way. We in education can not force parents to accept the IEP or accommodations. It is a working document with parent input.

 

[vallee]

And they can quite obviously see that it is the oralists who are doing the attacking. Perhaps you should clean up your own act before hurling accusations at others.

Tell me how I should clean up my own act!!!!

 

[jillio]

Well children do come first, but we respect religious beliefs and culture in education. We don't put Halloween up or say the word witches or ghost. We celebrate celebrations not Christmas. I know it is not completely the same, but to many parents they might feel this way. We in education can not force parents to accept the IEP or accommodations. It is a working document with parent input.

Cultural celebrations such as Halloween do not impede the language development of children. Fallicious comaprison.

 

[shel90]

Well children do come first, but we respect religious beliefs and culture in education. We don't put Halloween up or say the word witches or ghost. We celebrate celebrations not Christmas. I know it is not completely the same, but to many parents they might feel this way. We in education can not force parents to accept the IEP or accommodations. It is a working document with parent input.

When a child's language development is at sake, how does Halloween compare? Big difference.

Halloween is not a life alternating decision...depriving children of a full access to language is a very serious life alternating decision that can have serious negative consequences on the child. It is the child who ends up losing, not the oralists nor the parents. The child and that is where all my anger stems from.

 

[jillio]

Tell me how I should clean up my own act!!!!

By stopping with the name calling and the attributing of comments that were never made. If you disagree with a post, then disagree with the post, and support the reasons why you disagree without making personal attacks on the poster. Learn the difference between disagreement with a statement and attempting to besmirk anothers character by making personal attacks.

 

[Cheri]

The Deaf community is not known for attacking parents who come to them for help with ASL or learning more about deafness. It is when the parents tell the Deaf community that their child doesnt need to learn sign and is better off being around hearing children is when Deaf people feel insulted and belittled. That is discrimination right there. Maybe u dont see it but I see it happening all the time.

Do you remember way back when Cloggy created a thread which the title would go as "When expecting a child, would you want it to be deaf?" I found that thread to be the most offensive thread in the history of cochlear implant sub-forum.

Of course I'm not holding it against Cloggy. But, just to prove my point.