A Violation of Human Rights Re: Forcing A Deaf Child to Wear CI

[KarissaMann05]

Wirelessly posted

*blinks*

No... no no. I was not asked you guys about oralism. I was you guys what solution? Forcing a child to hear strange noise is not helpful. So what is another way to improve that problem? There. I was asked a question about the solution...

 

[Daredevel7]

Out of curiosity, do you congregate often with oral deaf?

(Asking only because I don't know where you live or if your friends are deaf, etc.)

Keeping in mind that I only got into the deaf community 2 years ago, I do have more deaf (raised with ASL or SEE) friends than oral deaf friends. I had a few oral deaf friends growing up at home, but all of us had our own hearing friends. I hang out with mostly hearing people. In my experience, oral deaf tend to congregate with hearing people while Deaf people tend to congregate with themselves.

 

[Frisky Feline]

Keeping in mind that I only got into the deaf community 2 years ago, I do have more deaf (raised with ASL or SEE) friends than oral deaf friends. I had a few oral deaf friends growing up at home, but all of us had our own hearing friends. I hang out with mostly hearing people. In my experience, oral deaf tend to congregate with hearing people while Deaf people tend to congregate with themselves.

curious, where did you get idea that oral deaf tend to interact with hearing people while deaf people tend to interact with other deaf people, (not themselve in your word).

How come lots of oral people decide to attend gallaudet?

 

[deafskeptic]

I am working on finding an almost 350 year old article... That says exactly the same thing the Deaf are saying right now...

I'd like to see that too. I guess some things never change.

 

[deafskeptic]

Keeping in mind that I only got into the deaf community 2 years ago, I do have more deaf (raised with ASL or SEE) friends than oral deaf friends. I had a few oral deaf friends growing up at home, but all of us had our own hearing friends. I hang out with mostly hearing people. In my experience, oral deaf tend to congregate with hearing people while Deaf people tend to congregate with themselves.

That hasn't been my experience. I notice that many oral deaf seem to prefer other oral deaf and after contact with the deaf culture, many tend to migrate to it instead of staying in the oral world.

 

[Banjo]

That hasn't been my experience. I notice that many oral deaf seem to prefer other oral deaf and after contact with the deaf culture, many tend to migrate to it instead of staying in the oral world.

Ain't that the truth? I've seen it happen quite often.

 

[AlleyCat]

Keeping in mind that I only got into the deaf community 2 years ago, I do have more deaf (raised with ASL or SEE) friends than oral deaf friends. I had a few oral deaf friends growing up at home, but all of us had our own hearing friends. I hang out with mostly hearing people. In my experience, oral deaf tend to congregate with hearing people while Deaf people tend to congregate with themselves.

I understand what you're saying.

So, for your statement above "oral deaf tend to congregate with hearing people while Deaf people tend to congregate with themselves" --

I want to point out what Beowulf said:

When there is a large group of deaf together, I challenge you to find one who is oral.

And you said, "huh? Really?"

Beowulf's right. When there's a large group of deaf together, not many are oral deaf. Because many of the oral deaf are congregating with the hearing, just as you said. So that's why it's a challenge to find oral deaf congregating with other deaf.

 

[Daredevel7]

curious, where did you get idea that oral deaf tend to interact with hearing people while deaf people tend to interact with other deaf people, (not themselve in your word).

How come lots of oral people decide to attend gallaudet?

Well, if a Deaf person only goes to deaf schools, that would mean the majority of oral deaf people they meet are the ones who did not do well or are unhappy with being oral and switched to deaf schools (such as Gallaudet). So I can see why Deaf people are convinced that lots of oral people will eventually do the "switch".

However, from my world (an oral world), the oral people I know are the ones that are in hearing schools. And they stay in hearing schools. So they never made the "switch". So from my perspective, there's quite a bit of people like that. A few have taken ASL class and ventured into the deaf community to check it out, but it seems like most of the time their interest kinda fizzles out. To be quite honest, I was more into the local deaf community a year ago than I am now. I prefer interaction through AD due its diversity.

I have always been curious what exactly are the statistics of oral deaf, mainstreamed, ASL, SEE, etc. but from a 20-30 yr old age range group who have a moderate/severe to profound deafness. That way, the "switching" will have already most likely happened. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised by a majority of EITHER group (mostly ASL or mostly oral). It just could go either way.

 

[Daredevel7]

I understand what you're saying.

So, for your statement above "oral deaf tend to congregate with hearing people while Deaf people tend to congregate with themselves" --

I want to point out what Beowulf said:



And you said, "huh? Really?"

Beowulf's right. When there's a large group of deaf together, not many are oral deaf. Because many of the oral deaf are congregating with the hearing, just as you said. So that's why it's a challenge to find oral deaf congregating with other deaf.

Oh oh I totally agree there are not that many oral deaf with other deaf people. but... the way Beowulf said it was more along the terms of "It's incredibly rare.". I can name at least 4 oral deaf people here in Huntsville, excluding me. And I just started getting into the deaf community only a year ago.

 

[Frisky Feline]

Well, if a Deaf person only goes to deaf schools, that would mean the majority of oral deaf people they meet are the ones who did not do well or are unhappy with being oral and switched to deaf schools (such as Gallaudet). So I can see why Deaf people are convinced that lots of oral people will eventually do the "switch".

some of them were very curious about the identify himself and the deaf culture, just like my hubby.

However, from my world (an oral world), the oral people I know are the ones that are in hearing schools. And they stay in hearing schools. So they never made the "switch". So from my perspective, there's quite a bit of people like that. A few have taken ASL class and ventured into the deaf community to check it out, but it seems like most of the time their interest kinda fizzles out. To be quite honest, I was more into the local deaf community a year ago than I am now. I prefer interaction through AD due its diversity.

it depends on what individual's comfort zone: their identify where their upbringing and society and attitudes. yeah.

I have always been curious what exactly are the statistics of oral deaf, mainstreamed, ASL, SEE, etc. but from a 20-30 yr old age range group who have a moderate/severe to profound deafness. That way, the "switching" will have already most likely happened. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised by a majority of EITHER group (mostly ASL or mostly oral). It just could go either way.

Me too. But i knew statistics tend not to be accurate based on people who would not cooperate with or lack of information in the local area.

 

[Beowulf]

Oh oh I totally agree there are not that many oral deaf with other deaf people. but... the way Beowulf said it was more along the terms of "It's incredibly rare.". I can name at least 4 oral deaf people here in Huntsville, excluding me. And I just started getting into the deaf community only a year ago.

Hmmm. What I really meant was that it IS incredibly rare to see someone deaf using only speech in a deaf group, almost as rare as a group of deaf using speech alone. I am not sure what it is that makes signing so universal, and speech so abhorred. I grew up oral but never speak as a hearing person would when I am with other deaf people. That is just WRONG.

 

[Daredevel7]

Hmmm. What I really meant was that it IS incredibly rare to see someone deaf using only speech in a deaf group, almost as rare as a group of deaf using speech alone. I am not sure what it is that makes signing so universal, and speech so abhorred. I grew up oral but never speak as a hearing person would when I am with other deaf people. That is just WRONG.

OH!!!! I see. That totally makes sense. I have spoken to other deaf people before, but they were also oral deaf like me. If I were hanging out with other Deaf people, then of course I'd sign. It's a respectful thing. Sometimes I do speak and sign at the same time because there would be hearing people, too. Plus, I am not fluent, so sometimes I have to mouth the words if I don't know a sign for something.

 

[Jiro]

Hmmm. What I really meant was that it IS incredibly rare to see someone deaf using only speech in a deaf group, almost as rare as a group of deaf using speech alone. I am not sure what it is that makes signing so universal, and speech so abhorred. I grew up oral but never speak as a hearing person would when I am with other deaf people. That is just WRONG.

someone deaf using only speech in a deaf group. hmm... sounds like sheila's group. and Clarke students.

 

[Beowulf]

someone deaf using only speech in a deaf group. hmm... sounds like sheila's group. and Clarke students.

And me, when I was her age.
Give it time.

 

[Jiro]

And me, when I was her age.
Give it time.

I wonder - years later after graduation..... how did Clarke students fare?

 

[Daredevel7]

I wonder - years later after graduation..... how did Clarke students fare?

No idea... I've visited that place before..... yea, that wasn't pretty. No offense to those who went there.

 

[Jiro]

No idea... I've visited that place before..... yea, that wasn't pretty. No offense to those who went there.

wasn't pretty? in what way?

 

[Bottesini]

I wonder - years later after graduation..... how did Clarke students fare?

Plenty are here. Why don't you ask them?

 

[BecLak]

I'm thinking back to some statistics that have been stated. Not by any specific poster, but generally.

I can see where there would be such high numbers of "oral deaf". There's all the ones who don't learn sign and grow up orally, there's those that are late-deafened (or at least post-lingually deafened), and then there are those that could be like me but mis-interpreted.

I was never approached in school years by anyone wanting statistics on me. If I had, whether in person, or in a questionnaire, I could see how the questions could potentially go:

1) Did you learn to speak? Yes.
2) Did you speak to your classmates? Yes.
3) Were you set up with an IEP (TOD) Yes.
4) Did you have note-takers? Yes.
5) Did you have access to tutors, other help? Yes.
6) Do you wear HAs (Only HAs asked because CIs didn't exist then) Yes.
7) Do you use an FM system? No.
8) Did you learn ASL? Yes.
9) Did you use ASL with your classmates? No.

and so on ...

This could indicate that I'm a successful oral deaf student based on being able to speak, speak with classmates, read notes, not use an FM system, not use ASL with classmates, and so on. Nowhere, at any time, was I ever asked how difficult school was, self-esteem-wise. No mention of bullies picking on my speech, sign, and so on. This is why we, on this board, share many of the hellish moments we have. It boggles my mind that statistics are so valued and seen as the majority, when it isn't also addressed how difficult a time any of these students had in school. For all I know, I could be classified as part of that % of oral deaf, even though I'm absolutely not.

I see that my parents had the same line of reasoning as some of the hearing parents on this board. They were trying to do what was best for me. And that meant going with the majority of what they learned from doctors, research, whatnot. (Forums like these didn't exist then -- the internet didn't even exist then! ) I do commend parents who are trying to do what's best for their kids. But, again, why feedback from those who lived these school years are not valued I do not understand. Statistics don't paint the true picture.

 

[Daredevel7]

wasn't pretty? in what way?

It's been a long time. I'm sure it doesn't apply to everyone there, but... it was extremely socially awkward. And they DO sign, just not in classes. I tried talking to them and signing with them. Yea that was just... awkful.

I also watched classes going on. It didn't seem.. right. I can't explain why. My mom hated it, for sure. The first time I visited, the people who worked there even recommended that I go straight to mainstream instead of going there because "my IQ was too high" and something about doing well with understanding spoken language. (Hint hint.. my IQ isn't even high!)