A Violation of Human Rights Re: Forcing A Deaf Child to Wear CI

[Bottesini]

Yeah, that wacky accusation wasn't out of the blue or anything. << sarcasm

Mwah hah hah .... looks like I've successfully managed to spoof every participant on this thread and make it actually look like there've been multiple people participating in a conversation just to put your knickers in a bunch. Hope the mods don't notice.

Now, I'm sorry the conversation didn't go the way you wanted, so let's find out where you were heading with your thought process and get back on track. OK, I see, I wasn't involved in that aspect of the conversation, but it looks like you wanted to talk some more about how you successfully learned to both speak and comprehend spoken language without access to sound using just speechreading. And how speechreading was your primary tool in developing written English, too.

Brava for that, and please excuse my interruption with the idea that parents need to listen to a broad range of deaf perspectives in making decisions about their children's approach to language -- I don't know how I thought that might be relevant to the OP or the direction of the conversation. Nevermind all that.

Hey I pointed that out last night and Jillio said I was the only one too stupid and misunderstanding.

 

[jillio]

It depends upon presumptions. It is one to assume that the deaf majority are oral. It only seems that way because they are forced to be in certain situations.. When there is a large group of deaf together, I challenge you to find one who is oral. What is there to eradicate? There is no controversy among the deaf over this.

Exactly. Within the deaf/Deaf ppopulation, there is not an oral majority. There are small geographic pockets where there may be more oral deaf than Deaf, but that does not extrapolate to the whole population. When one intentionally surrounds oneself with those holding the oral philosophy, it may appear that there is a majority where there isn't. That is why I caution to look father than your own front yard.

 

[jillio]

Hey I pointed that out last night and Jillio said I was the only one too stupid and misunderstanding.

Where exactly did Jillio say that you were "the only one too stupid". Don't resort to the intentional twisting of posts and false accusations that some around here find necessary.

 

[jillio]

Not just that, but what they see as ease of communication, even if it isn't necessarily true. I'm not discounting that the oral deaf feel they are comfortable with the hearing by speechreading, etc., but how many of us have said when we're in a deaf group of hands full of flying signs, we all understand what everyone else is saying? (assuming we all know ASL) -- there's no guesswork involved, no speechreading.

Very true. Thanks for adding that to my statement.

 

[GrendelQ]

Hey I pointed that out last night and Jillio said I was the only one too stupid and misunderstanding.

Nope, me too. But I'm not very familiar with speechreading aside from the 30% comprehension stats I've seen thrown around -- which could be a product of audism, so I don't know if literacy in written and fluency in spoken language via speechreading is a methodology many deaf use or not.

 

[jillio]

Yeah, that wacky accusation wasn't out of the blue or anything. << sarcasm

Mwah hah hah .... looks like I've successfully managed to spoof every participant on this thread and make it actually look like there've been multiple people participating in a conversation just to put your knickers in a bunch. Hope the mods don't notice.

Now, I'm sorry the conversation didn't go the way you wanted, so let's find out where you were heading with your thought process and get back on track. OK, I see, I wasn't involved in that aspect of the conversation, but it looks like you wanted to talk some more about how you successfully learned to both speak and comprehend spoken language without access to sound using just speechreading. And how speechreading was your primary tool in developing written English, too.

Brava for that, and please excuse my interruption with the idea that parents need to listen to a broad range of deaf perspectives in making decisions about their children's approach to language -- I don't know how I thought that might be relevant to the OP or the direction of the conversation. Nevermind all that.

:roll: Such superiority in one post. And what a use of defensive sarcasm to make it appear that rather than choosing not to accept, there is nothing to accept.:roll:

 

[Bottesini]

The post has been misinterpreted. We all know that one cannot learn written English by speech reading. The rest of us had no problem getting the meaning by reading all of the post, and then getting the true meaning from context.

Where exactly did Jillio say that you were "the only one too stupid". Don't resort to the intentional twisting of posts and false accusations that some around here find necessary.

That top post there. You ignored what I was pointing out too.

 

[jillio]

Yes, yes, yes. I've communicated with many well educated and well intentioned deaf who don't think that choosing ASL or a school for the deaf is the most appropriate approach for my daughter based on their "knowing more" and for longer. And yet, with plenty of information to the contrary, I choose otherwise. Claiming that you know more about what's right for my child doesn't make it so.

Sure you have.:roll:

Your choice. But please be as insistent upon your right to choose when you must also be responsible for the consequences of your choice. Somehow, I don't ever see you accepting that responsibility.

 

[Daredevel7]

That top post there. You ignored what I was pointing out too.

It's okay. Maybe she didn't realize that it was you. Maybe she thought it was a certain someone else....

 

[jillio]

That top post there. You ignored what I was pointing out too.

I don't see anywhere where I said, "you are too stupid" nor do I see where stupidity was even implied, nor do I see that it was directed specifically at you. I was simply replying to your statement with clarification of the previous post made by BecLak.

 

[jillio]

Nope, me too. But I'm not very familiar with speechreading aside from the 30% comprehension stats I've seen thrown around -- which could be a product of audism, so I don't know if literacy in written and fluency in spoken language via speechreading is a methodology many deaf use or not.

Those stats are not a product of audism. They are the result of much deaf communication and educational research.

 

[GrendelQ]

Those stats are not a product of audism. They are the result of much deaf communication and educational research.

Which makes Beclak's achievements using speechreading all the more laudable. That's great. But as I said, I've not at all been involved in that discussion. Perhaps Beclak has confused me with someone else who quoted and / or misinterpreted her on the speechreading subject. And then intentionally drove a thread away from the topic of how wonderful speechreading is just to annoy her.

But don't let a little fact like that keep you from piling on me for ... whatever -- something to do with speechreading, I guess.

 

[AlleyCat]

No one here as claimed to "know better". We claim to "know more" about the long term consequences of certain choices and certain methodolgies for the vast majority of deaf children.

We know more. Sorry if we have big egos for writing about our experiences. A tad different from those who have been reading research for a couple of years and thinking they know all.

 

[jillio]

Wirelessly posted



yeah, and since my kid could not access my language i had to start using a language that she could...ASL. That is the language she learned from me, not english.

and shel, are you saying that deaf kids have access to spoken language? That seems like a position change for you...

Your child learned English from you prior to your learning ASL. She was not born deaf, and you did not use ASL from the moment of her birth. You used English.

ASL was learned as a secondary language, not as a native language.

 

[jillio]

Which makes Beclak's achievements using speechreading all the more laudable. That's great. But as I said, I've not at all been involved in that discussion. Perhaps Beclak has confused me with someone else who quoted and / or misinterpreted her on the speechreading subject. And then intentionally drove a thread away from the topic of how wonderful speechreading is just to annoy her.

But don't let a little fact like that keep you from piling on me for ... whatever -- something to do with speechreading, I guess.

You weren't confused. It is perfectly understandable where BecLak got the idea. All it takes is scrolling back to locate it.

Again, with the victim. Poor poor Grendel. She is being picked on. Wah, wah.

 

[jillio]

We know more. Sorry if we have big egos for writing about our experiences. A tad different from those who have been reading research for a couple of years and thinking they know all.

Exactly.

Especially when what they are reading, in most instances, isn't even research, and when it is research, they never venture past the first paragraph or two.

And I have always conceded that you know more, even though I read tons of research, from both perspectives.

 

[GrendelQ]

We know more. Sorry if we have big egos for writing about our experiences. A tad different from those who have been reading research for a couple of years and thinking they know all.

Yes, You do. But what happens when a hearing parent gets conflicting advice -- all based on valid deaf experiences? We have to use our research and our judgment. And there are a far greater number of deaf representing and supporting the oral experience. I've met with many deaf adults who have related their experiences, good and bad. And I've communicated online with many more. And I've crawled and lurked on the websites and blogs of young deaf to get a sense of what they think and do. I don't ask are you happy? Thriving? Bitter? Disgruntled? But you cam get a pretty good sense of which they are, and map it to what their educational/communication background is.

So, you may think that everybody supports asl, and bi-bi ed, and that there are more deaf who use asl than spoken language--and its great that you live in such a supportive and asl-focused world. But thats not my experience, and its not representative of the deaf population ive encountered. In my case, as several other parents here have done, I'm bucking the trend, taking a minority approach.

Amazing avatar, btw.

 

[jillio]

Yes, You do. But what happens when a hearing parent gets conflicting advice -- all based on valid deaf experiences? We have to use our research and our judgment. And there are a far greater number of deaf representing and supporting the oral experience. I've met with many deaf adults who have related their experiences, good and bad. And I've communicated online with many more. And I've crawled and lurked on the websites and blogs of young deaf to get a sense of what they think and do. I don't ask are you happy? Thriving? Bitter? Disgruntled? But you cam get a pretty good sense of which they are, and map it to what their educational/communication background is.

So, you may think that everybody supports asl, and bi-bi ed, and that there are more deaf who use asl than spoken language--and its great that you live in such a supportive and asl-focused world. But thats not my experience, and its not representative of the deaf population ive encountered. In my case, as several other parents here have done, I'm bucking the trend, taking a minority approach.

Amazing avatar, btw.

What research are you referring to?

And again, just because you have not encountered it does not mean that it does not exist.

 

[GrendelQ]

Wah, wah.

lovely. Which is it? You might want to pick a claim and stick with it. Are you trying to say that I'm victimizing beclak or she's victimizing me?
Your fiction, either way, but try for consistency -- at least in the same post.

 

[jillio]

lovely. Which is it? You might want to pick a claim and stick with it. Are you trying to say that I'm victimizing beclak or she's victimizing me?
Your fiction, either way, but try for consistency -- at least in the same post.

Neither one. Again you fail to understand plain English. What I am saying is that you feel the need, and take every opportunity to play the victim yourself. "Keep piling it on me" is but one example.:roll:

Obviously, you failed to pick up the sarcasm in my post, as well. It's okay. I bet the deaf will grasp it immediately.