A Cure

[shel90]

This thread should now be titled "Which is better, ASL or Oral?"


I am fluent in ESL, ASL, and oral communication.

Which is best for me?

Depends. On many things.

In the workforce, which is 99.9% hearing, oral communication works best for me. Why? 'Cuz that is the language being used by 99.9% of hearing people (Duh!)

When I am with old-school deaf people, ESL is best since that is what they are used to.

When I am with deaf people my age and younger, ASL works best.


Now, if you ask me which one I like best, there is no 'best'. Different languages apply to different environments.

However, what I WISH is, when I was in grade school, having an ASL interpreter would have helped me get through life better.

Of course, FJ is going to ask me why.

To all of you hearing people with deaf children who still don't get it:

Deaf means "cannot hear like a normal person". You can slap on hearing aids, CI's, and everything else that is presumed to be a "cure", but your child DOES NOT hear what everyone is supposed to hear.

Your child is depending on VISUAL clues to communicate. Lipreading is unbelievably hard and draining on your child. You have no clue as to how much effort it is to pay attention to everything someone says by concentrating on someones upper torso, face, and lips nonstop. My family thought I was a whack-job since I was always nervous, tired, and confused. They did not understand what the hell I was going through (and probably did not give a shit either). I still get migraine headaches after meetings & discussions with hearing people.

ASL (or any kind of sign language) makes a HUGE difference in a deaf child's ability to understand what the hell you are saying. You can teach your child to lipread and send him/her to speech therapy, yes, however, using sign language is still the most important way to get communication started.

Of course, there are some hearing 'specialists' out there that preach differently. My parents were told that I will become retarded if I learned sign language.

For me, ASL eliminates most humiliating misunderstandings, especially when discussing serious, detailed topics.

My opinion, but when it comes to sign language, late-deafened people are much more difficult to teach, and are less inclined to learn the language.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

What are statistics anyway?! What has more validity is what comes 'straight from the horse's mouth' - personal hand-on experiences from the real-life 'guinea-pigs'. (btw, have you noticed the common phrase terms refer to animals? We are not animals, we are human beings so what we say should have more validity than anything else)

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Green427 said:

"This thread should now be titled "Which is better, ASL or Oral?"


It's interesting how this thread has evolved from discussing cures to winding back around to language.

That should all but bury the idea of a cure for deafness, shouldn't it?

 

[GrendelQ]

What are statistics anyway?! What has more validity is what comes 'straight from the horse's mouth' - personal hand-on experiences from the real-life 'guinea-pigs'. (btw, have you noticed the common phrase terms refer to animals? We are not animals, we are human beings so what we say should have more validity than anything else)

But ... if you simply use the anecdotal evidence of those immediately around you, you'll have a very filtered perspective. A terribly goofy analogy: If you live in Antarctica, and go only by what you see daily, you might think all birds = penguins. So, people who attend avt programs or auditory-verbal schools would be surrounded only by those who subscribe to an A-V philosophy. Just because everyone around them is following that philosophy doesn't make it the only option.

 

[faire_jour]

But ... if you simply use the anecdotal evidence of those immediately around you, you'll have a very filtered perspective. A terribly goofy analogy: If you live in Antarctica, and go only by what you see daily, you might think all birds = penguins. So, people who attend avt programs or auditory-verbal schools would be surrounded only by those who subscribe to an A-V philosophy. Just because everyone around them is following that philosophy doesn't make it the only option.

I agree. When I first entered the world of hearing loss, I was only exposed to the Deaf community. I was told and believed that all kids with hearing loss grew up and learned ASL (because oralism either failed them or they hated being isolated) and joined the Deaf community. Over the last 3 years I have learned that is certainly not always the case, but if I only moved in ASL Deaf circles, I would have never known. I would have believed it, because that is all I ever saw.

 

[GrendelQ]

It's interesting how this thread has evolved from discussing cures to winding back around to language.

I don't think I've seen a thread yet in the hearing aids & cochlear implants section that didn't include a passionate argument for a signed language despite the fact that no one ever argues against ASL. I think it's a requirement of the forum, like the small print in commercials.

 

[AlleyCat]

That's because there is no need to argue against ASL.

 

[deafgal001]

Sometimes I don't even know why people are arguing. It's like married couple or something..... it gets no where.

 

[faire_jour]

That's because there is no need to argue against ASL.

And even though people CONSTANTLY complain that people are arguing against it, I have yet to see someone try to talk someone out of learning ASL.

 

[deafdyke]

Being deaf and having to have intensive speech therapy to articulate speech and to talk just so we can to conform to the convenience of a majority (often this was imposed on us, it was not a choice) doesn't end there. I speak well enough that few in the hearing world know that I am severely-deaf. I had become an expert at piecing together the puzzle of words, an expert at fooling people I could hear by reading more than just lips, but also facial expressions and body language and the surrounds. Yet, even after 47 years of being totally immersed in the hearing world, being the only deaf in a hearing family, married to a hearing man, all my 7 children are hearing, not having any exposure to sign language or the Deaf community until last year, I still struggle to articulate some words. It is still an huge effort to talk for any length of time. It tires me immensely and it strains my throat to the point of hurting. Why should we need to be oral when sign language can be made readily available to us? I resent the fact I was not given the knowledge or opportunity to learn sign language at an early age for it to be my first and primary language. I cannot understand why you think you have the right to advocate for oralism.

RIGHT ON LADY!!!!!! Right on! Oral training needs to be part of a full toolbox approach, not the ONLY tool available.
Re: hearing people who use ASL........there are people with CP, apraxia, tracheostomies and other issues who use Sign as a first language. (and not just as an augmentive and alternative communication system, where they'd only know a handful of signs) Two of the Deaf Schools in my state ( Beverely School for the Deaf and TLC) offer a program where hearing kids who cannot aquire spoken language use ASL.

I have heard that something like 85-90% of parents start signing upon discovery of hearing loss. But, most stop at at age 3 because of the transition to preschool. They must choose a voice-off ASL with minimal pull out speech therapy, or oral only. 80% choose the oral preschool, another small percentage choose to mainstream, which leaves the bi-bi school with an average of 2-3 new students a year. My question is: how does the bi-bi school become more attractive to parents? The parents were interested in signing, they learned some and used it, but then something happens....

and faire joure I do think you're right. I think now a days new hearing parents of dhh kids are more openminded about ASL for their kids. But they're also desperatly afraid that their kids won't learn spoken language. I think maybe a good approach might be like one of those bilingal programs that they have in Canada, where kids are schooled in English in the mornings and French in the afternoons. I do know at some Deaf Schools, they have programs like that! (Govenor Baxter, Pennsylvania School for the Deaf, the one in Philly, and NY State School for the Deaf. Heck you could prolly do something like that at the Deaf Schools that have oral preschools...and there are quite a few that have oral preschools!)
__________________

 

[AlleyCat]

And even though people CONSTANTLY complain that people are arguing against it, I have yet to see someone try to talk someone out of learning ASL.

That would be because there's no reason to talk someone out of learning ASL. If someone wants to learn ASL, have at it. That seems pretty obvious to me.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

That's because there is no need to argue against ASL.

Sometimes I don't even know why people are arguing. It's like married couple or something..... it gets no where.

I think we have people who are passionate about what they believe in, and it's hard for them to see the other side of it. Then again, we're also talking about a persons' well being starting from infancy and throughout life. When you are talking about that, it's hard not to be passionate. But, passion aside, there are people who just won't agree no matter what you tell them or what proof you present to them. People will believe what they want to. That's human nature. There are also people who just like to argue for the sake of it. When it gets to THAT point, that's when it's best to just walk away.

 

[sheila022]

And even though people CONSTANTLY complain that people are arguing against it, I have yet to see someone try to talk someone out of learning ASL.

Haha.....I had actually wanted to learn ASL formally when I was younger so I could be with my deaf friends who were heading to the school for the deaf in Texas or some other deaf specialized programs in certain local schools/middle schools, but my mother refused to let me learn ASL and be placed in some school for the deaf or in some special education classes at certain schools, so I ended up going all mainstream and being the only deaf in my middle and high school, usually. I think it was at that time when I had left the deaf community.

Today, I guess I can see why she did made that choice. At that point, I didn't really need "extra" help as my other deaf peers needed (I was the first and only deaf student in my school to go completely mainstream), so I was able to go to a middle school nearest to my home instead of commuting to another school district. I was able to get by in classes by using FM system and other ways to fill in the knowledge/materials gap to function in my classes mostly on my own.

But now.....I think I do want to learn ASL to further integrate myself back into the deaf community I had left so many years ago :P Jiro is helping me along with that process. <3 ^_^

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

And even though people CONSTANTLY complain that people are arguing against it, I have yet to see someone try to talk someone out of learning ASL.

That's because the Deaf are sensitive to passive-aggressiveness.

Just because someone says "Oh, I could never afford that," it doesn't imply the person doesn't want it-- just means she or he is suggesting another person should buy it FOR them.

 

[deafdyke]

, I have yet to see someone try to talk someone out of learning ASL.

What about oral advocates? " Gotta concentrate on speech, speech and more speech!" :roll:

 

[Oceanbreeze]

That would be because there's no reason to talk someone out of learning ASL. If someone wants to learn ASL, have at it. That seems pretty obvious to me.

Thankfully, many have. That is, despite growing up oral only.

 

[faire_jour]

What about oral advocates? " Gotta concentrate on speech, speech and more speech!" :roll:

(Spoken language, not speech)

But they aren't here. We are talking about on this forum.

 

[GrendelQ]

Sometimes I don't even know why people are arguing. It's like married couple or something..... it gets no where.

I know -- and the oddest thing is that everybody here is on the same side of the argument, and yet, the argument continues.

 

[GrendelQ]

What about oral advocates? " Gotta concentrate on speech, speech and more speech!" :roll:

I've not yet seen that. Definitely not on this forum. And not in real life.

 

[Bottesini]

I've not yet seen that. Definitely not on this forum. And not in real life.

Go, speech!