A cochlear implant story

shel90 said:
Just found out today that we will be getting 4 more new students referred to our school from the oral-only programs. How many more kids have to suffer before people realize that sign language is very critical for young deaf children especially in the academic setting as concepts become more and more complex?


If that makes me negative, oh well. Language access for all deaf/hoh children is my #1 priority.
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Sorry to hear that, Shel but on the other hand, all is not lost because they are in your care now.
 
Cloggy said:
With the luxury to decided herself when she will hear, and when she will not...

She's got it made!
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There is a postitive side to this when in school with a really crabby teacher. :) My daughter and I both enjoyed being able to turn the HA's off when things got to intense. Felt sorry for those who couldn't and had to listen to every word. :)
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Cloggy has stated SO MANY times the exact same thing - exactly how many more times he has to do that in order to be FINALLY HEARD?

I for one am getting nauseous of reading same ol over and over. This is passed unchanged back and forth since 2005 for sure -
CLOGGY SAID HIS DAUGHTER IS DEAF!!!


get it, already.

Fuzzy
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:ugh: time to cut down on the caffeine.
 
shel90 said:
Just found out today that we will be getting 4 more new students referred to our school from the oral-only programs. How many more kids have to suffer before people realize that sign language is very critical for young deaf children especially in the academic setting as concepts become more and more complex?


If that makes me negative, oh well. Language access for all deaf/hoh children is my #1 priority.
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I know, shel. It continues to happen over and over and over. Why do people refuse to see what is right there in front of them?
 
Audiofuzzy said:
And how exactly are YOU contributing to the bridging the gap- by constant putting down those who disagree with you? by reverting to personal insults sorta "crack pipe", and criticizing one's English? is that what you call contribution?
yeah, tell me - what is bridging the gap, exactly? kissing some people's here butts badly, no matter if they are right or wrong - just deaf?


IS THIS FINGER POINTING BRIDGING THE GAP????? ::::


btw, you could have said simply "bridging the gap is only by learning ASL".

And anyway - SO WHAT ????? They don't have to sign to raise Lotte a happy, confident child, that's one, and to "bridge the gap" - that's two.
According to you, the whole world then needs to learn ASL in order to "bridge the gap" between hearing and deaf. yeah, sure...:ugh3:


Fuzzy
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I'll take your circular ranting to mean that you don't have an answer and are continuing to simply argue for the sake of arguing without having takenthe time to even think about your replies, much less how you arrive at your conclusions.
 
Cloggy said:
I have stated that my wife has a degree in sign language. She studied it in the time when Lotte got used to CI.....

But I'm sure that when you read that, you dismissed it.... I'm not surprised...

Just want to make sure that your lie is addressed.

An apology will be accepted....




Ah... Explaining how CI works... is actually very important, especially when people like you are sending out misinformation about "drilling into the skull"...

And what is this about "psychological, social, and educational consequences of sign language denied" ... how is you scaring people into believing that that is going to happen "no matter what" considered "briding a gap".

You negative view on children that are succesful with is actually the factor that is widening the gap. Because, instead of asking how it is that many children are succesful with CI, asking the parents that have experienced it, and are experiencing it, YOU go out of your way to focus on the "CI-kids" (your termonology, not mine) that you "help".
In order to help these children with CI, you might want to have a look at children that are succesfull.

I agree.... they are so hard to find..... since you will not notice that they have a CI. Because.... they are children first.

In the mean time, stop widening the bridge, and start stretching out to the other side...

It is the children with CI that need our help. Not CI-kids.
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Actually, what I read was your statement that your wife had signed up to take a sign language class to improve her knowlege of the langauge.
 
jillio said:
........... He has stated that he and his wife's signing skills do not test past the rudimentary level. .......
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Cloggy said:
I have stated that my wife has a degree in sign language. She studied it in the time when Lotte got used to CI.....
But I'm sure that when you read that, you dismissed it.... I'm not surprised...
Just want to make sure that your lie is addressed.
An apology will be accepted....
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jillio said:
Actually, what I read was your statement that your wife had signed up to take a sign language class to improve her knowlege of the langauge.
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Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle.....
So lets go with your ASSumption:
Someone who takes up sign language class on a university has basic skills. Yeh, that's possible...

Sure Jillio...
 
Cloggy said:
Wiggle, wiggle, wiggle.....
So lets go with your ASSumption:
Someone who takes up sign language class on a university has basic skills. Yeh, that's possible...

Sure Jillio...
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Of course it is possible, cloggy. University courses are designed to run in consecutive order, so that one must take the first level in order to be able toatake the second level, etc. So it is quite possible for one to enroll inthe first level with some knowlege of sign, but must take the course in sequence.

As well, most university level sign courses are designed to address the learning needs of those who have no knowlege in the area of sign. A degree would imply fluency, or at least adult level conversational competency.

If she has a "degree" in sign, why is it that she is now taking a "university course" in sign?
 
jillio said:
Of course it is possible, cloggy. University courses are designed to run in consecutive order, so that one must take the first level in order to be able toatake the second level, etc. So it is quite possible for one to enroll inthe first level with some knowlege of sign, but must take the course in sequence.

As well, most university level sign courses are designed to address the learning needs of those who have no knowlege in the area of sign. A degree would imply fluency, or at least adult level conversational competency.

If she has a "degree" in sign, why is it that she is now taking a "university course" in sign?
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It's possible she has an associate degree or similar in the language, and is furthering her education? Regardless, is it your place to judge WHY she's in university. The emphasis should be on how wonderful it is that she IS learning, not nit-picking.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Angel, with all due respect Cloggy said, repeated, agreed to YOU about Lotte being DEAF close a hundred times in the past.....
still just that past few days I saw how he told this repeatedly again, and you kept going at it: "Cloggy, your daughter is deaf, got it"?
YES YES Angel, he got it- he said it first.
If you, as you claim, got it -then why you keep telling Cloggy the same over and over? Perhaps a little yell WILL get your attention...? finally?




How can you be sure it was just lack of ASL that caused these delays?
there could be a basic reason for this - parents not paying attention to their children progress and general education.
Just the parent's responses from the link that Cheri provided proves the lack of ANY involvement on their part with their kids development - any development... let alone to teach them langauge.

Fuzzy
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Is there a reason you keep sayingthe same things over, and over, and over, and over, and over............? We understood you the first time, fuzz. Saying it again is not necessary. Its not going to convince anyone. Give it up.
 
neecy said:
It's possible she has an associate degree or similar in the language, and is furthering her education? Regardless, is it your place to judge WHY she's in university. The emphasis should be on how wonderful it is that she IS learning, not nit-picking.
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No, if she had an associate degree in sign, she would not now be taking an into level course. It would have transferred to her upper level undergraduate degree.

Cloggy is the one that brought it up, not me. Let's let cloggy answer for himself, shall we?
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Angel, with all due respect Cloggy said, repeated, agreed to YOU about Lotte being DEAF close a hundred times in the past.....
still just that past few days I saw how he told this repeatedly again, and you kept going at it: "Cloggy, your daughter is deaf, got it"?
YES YES Angel, he got it- he said it first.
If you, as you claim, got it -then why you keep telling Cloggy the same over and over? Perhaps a little yell WILL get your attention...? finally?




How can you be sure it was just lack of ASL that caused these delays?
there could be a basic reason for this - parents not paying attention to their children progress and general education.
Just the parent's responses from the link that Cheri provided proves the lack of ANY involvement on their part with their kids development - any development... let alone to teach them langauge.

Fuzzy
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kids are in an oral-only environment 24/7, become delayed in language, get enrolled in a signing program, their language development finally starts happening at a normal pace. I would say that there is a correlation.
 
shel90 said:
kids are in an oral-only environment 24/7, become delayed in language, get enrolled in a signing program, their language development finally starts happening at a normal pace. I would say that there is a correlation.
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Absolutely.
 
kids are in an oral-only environment 24/7, become delayed in language, get enrolled in a signing program, their language development finally starts happening at a normal pace. I would say that there is a correlation.
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of course a deaf child who can't hear and thus can not immitate words will have lang. development delay. But this is not the only reason why.
A deaf child would require an enormous amount of work in order to achieve proper oral language dev. If the child is deaf, there is also the question of speech.
A child may know more words than it shows, because of unability to speak properly.

That is why the early implanation would really help, but if the child is not just left alone with CI but assisted with hearing an speech development and proper language development. All that does not exclude ASL.

Likewise, a child who grew up in deaf enviroment only may have poor oral and writing skills. Even if the "deaf" language will be developed beautifully.


Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
of course a deaf child who can't hear and thus can not immitate words will have lang. development delay. But this is not the only reason why.
A deaf child would require an enormous amount of work in order to achieve proper oral language dev. If the child is deaf, there is also the question of speech.
A child may know more words than it shows, because of unability to speak properly.

That is why the early implanation would really help, but if the child is not just left alone with CI but assisted with hearing an speech development and proper language development. All that does not exclude ASL.

Likewise, a child who grew up in deaf enviroment only may have poor oral and writing skills. Even if the "deaf" language will be developed beautifully.


Fuzzy
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Actually, all children are in possessesion of quite a bit of knowledge that they are unable to articulate. It has nothing to dowith whether or not they can speak. It is developmentally related. Has nothing to do with being hearing or deaf.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
That is why the early implanation would really help, but if the child is not just left alone with CI but assisted with hearing an speech development and proper language development. All that does not exclude ASL.
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cochlear implant... cochlear implant... cochlear implant is all you think would solve it's problem. It has nothing to do with having hearing. get that out of ur mind.

children often use nonverbal gestures and signs before they begin to use words to communicate, why do you think baby's sign has become extremely popular recently, speech is most sure will come after the baby knows signs. I've read that babies won't have any speech delay if uses signs in the very beginning, and if parents speak and sign the same time with the baby, It would give a child a slight future verbal edge and language development.

Read my thread about sign lanugage, You'll get the whole point.
 
shel90 said:
kids are in an oral-only environment 24/7, become delayed in language, get enrolled in a signing program, their language development finally starts happening at a normal pace. I would say that there is a correlation.
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I believe that because it's extremely frustrate to rely on lip reading 24/7, I've been there myself and I do know how frustrate it is.

How can someone call a home a happy home when there's no good communication at home between a child and a parent. I'm just hoping things will change, but the question is when?
 
Cheri said:
cochlear implant... cochlear implant... cochlear implant is all you think would solve it's problem. It has nothing to do with having hearing. get that out of ur mind.

children often use nonverbal gestures and signs before they begin to use words to communicate, why do you think baby's sign has become extremely popular recently, speech is most sure will come after the baby knows signs. I've read that babies won't have any speech delay if uses signs in the very beginning, and if parents speak and sign the same time with the baby, It would give a child a slight future verbal edge and language development.

Read my thread about sign lanugage, You'll get the whole point.
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EXACTLY! It doesn't have a thing to do with whether a child can hear or not. It is a developmental issue. And children also understand nonverbal messages when they are hearing. If a child cries, and a parent turns its back, do you think that child doesn't understand at the moment that his/her needs are not being met. Waht is the messsage that child gets? I can't trust that someone will be here to take care of me. Is the child able to say oall of that? Are they able to put it into words? Of course not. But do they understand the feeling and the message they are give? YES, they do. And they internalize it and react to it, and it affects their future development.
 
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