A cochlear implant story

[Cloggy]

Because she is still DEAF!!!

I can hear you..... Yes she is..
But my question was "Why does she need sign-language".?

I said NOTHING about the Deaf Culture, I 'm talking about her true identity...

Which is probably going to be a hearing identity... what's your problem with that.?
After all, she can hear, uses speech to communicate, talks to her grandparents, friends, hears the birds, sea, planes, has no contact with other deaf children, nor with deaf children with CI.....
Yep... I guess she will have a hearing identity...

With the luxury to decided herself when she will hear, and when she will not...

She's got it made!

 

[Angel]

Angel... I guessed you didn't see my question...

Do we use sign - or not?

You said " She's right... we don't (any more)"

Then you said

"We only use it when her CI is off."


That shows me that you do NOT use it as often, and it can cause a child not to sign anymore, so who's fault is that the child or yours?....

 

[Cheri]

I can hear you..... Yes she is..
But my question was "Why does she need sign-language".?

To save the child the frustration of misunderstanding it can happen and it does happen, It's best to have both communications speech and signs, I've said this more than thousand of times, I don't see how hard it is to understand.

 

[Angel]

I can hear you..... Yes she is..
But my question was "Why does she need sign-language".?

The answer will still remain the same Cloggy!

Which is probably going to be a hearing identity... what's your problem with that.?

Wrong, CI is not a cure, and it does not restore normal hearing so, therefore she is not hearing....

After all, she can hear, uses speech to communicate, talks to her grandparents, friends, hears the birds, sea, planes, has no contact with other deaf children, nor with deaf children with CI.....

That's because she has the help with her implant, without it she won't be able to hear anything....

Yep... I guess she will have a hearing identity...

Wrong, her identity will always be deaf period...

 

[Cloggy]

The answer will still remain the same Cloggy!
What answer? - you didn't give one...

Wrong, CI is not a cure, and it does not restore normal hearing so, therefore she is not hearing....
She can hear. Well. BTW... Do you have a definition of "hearing" that you can show me..?? Since you say she's NOT hearing, you might want to define "hearing"...

That's because she has the help with her implant, without it she won't be able to hear anything....
Yes, so what?

Wrong, her identity will always be deaf period...

Why? I recall deaf people on AllDeaf that do not have a deaf ideantity... Are they in denial - or are you?

BTW.... "deaf period".... ????? Sounds bloody...

 

[Angel]

Many of you want us to have a positive view on cochlear implants, how can we, I mean look around you, some of you are already saying hearing parents does not have to learn sign language because their CI child now can hear, one of you had already deny your deaf child's true identity because now he/she can hear....


I'm starting to see why Cheri, Liebling, Shel90, Jillio are always debates about these implants, because hearing parents who want the best for this kids are willing to turn a blind eye to the benefits of teaching or still teaching their deaf children sign language...

Grr This really makes me soo mad, now I'm not so sure about these implants anymore, Thanks for those who finally woke me up

 

[Angel]

Just because she CAN hear does not make her hearing Cloggy, God

 

[LTHFAdvocate]

I try to stay away from these philosophical arguments, but your statement

her identity will always be deaf period...

is so clearly wrong, I felt the need to respond. Lotte's "identity" will be whatever LOTTE decides it's going to be, not what Cloggy thinks Lotte's identity to be, and certainly not what you think it should be. Identities are not objectively linked to physical traits. Identities are subjective, and also subject to change over time.

 

[Angel]

I try to stay away from these philosophical arguments, but your statement is so clearly wrong, I felt the need to respond. Lotte's "identity" will be whatever LOTTE decides it's going to be, not what Cloggy thinks Lotte's identity to be, and certainly not what you think it should be. Identities are not objectively linked to physical traits. Identities are subjective, and also subject to change over time.

That's your view but not mine....Lotte is only a child....she was born deaf now she can hear with the use of her implant, without it she is still deaf

 

[LTHFAdvocate]

The fact that Lotte is a child makes me question your conclusion even more. Cloggy was talking about Lotte's future identity, specifically he used the language "is probably going to be". My five-year-old daughter told me last week she was a princess, and the previous week she said she was a kitten. My severely HI teenage daughter has flip-flopped back and forth in her self-identification between hearing/deaf and Chinese/Caucasian so many times I have whiplash. Children don't make permanent decisions about identity. They don't have the emotional development or experience base to do so. Identity is evolutionary, how many of us have incorporated parenthood into our identities in our 30s and 40s?

That's your view but not mine....Lotte is only a child....

 

[Angel]

The fact that Lotte is a child makes me question your conclusion even more. Cloggy was talking about Lotte's future identity, specifically he used the language "is probably going to be". My five-year-old daughter told me last week she was a princess, and the previous week she said she was a kitten. My severely HI teenage daughter has flip-flopped back and forth in her self-identification between hearing/deaf and Chinese/Caucasian so many times I have whiplash. Children don't make permanent decisions about identity. They don't have the emotional development or experience base to do so. Identity is evolutionary, how many of us have incorporated parenthood into our identities in our 30s and 40s?

Yes you're right I apologize.....My children do the same thing...

 

[Cloggy]

I try to stay away from these philosophical arguments, but your statement

her identity will always be deaf period...

is so clearly wrong, I felt the need to respond.

Lotte's "identity" will be whatever LOTTE decides it's going to be, not what Cloggy thinks Lotte's identity to be, and certainly not what you think it should be. Identities are not objectively linked to physical traits. Identities are subjective, and also subject to change over time.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Just because she CAN hear does not make her hearing Cloggy, God

Cloggy has stated SO MANY times the exact same thing - exactly how many more times he has to do that in order to be FINALLY HEARD?

I for one am getting nauseous of reading same ol over and over. This is passed unchanged back and forth since 2005 for sure -
CLOGGY SAID HIS DAUGHTER IS DEAF!!!


get it, already.

Fuzzy

 

[Tousi]

Cloggy has stated SO MANY times the exact same thing - exactly how many more times he has to do that in order to be FINALLY HEARD?

I for one am getting nauseous of reading same ol over and over. This is passed unchanged back and forth since 2005 for sure -
CLOGGY SAID HIS DAUGHTER IS DEAF!!!


get it, already.

Fuzzy

I see it is getting better for some people as things become clearer. Suggest you get on that same bandwagon.

 

[Angel]

Cloggy has stated SO MANY times the exact same thing - exactly how many more times he has to do that in order to be FINALLY HEARD?

I for one am getting nauseous of reading same ol over and over. This is passed unchanged back and forth since 2005 for sure -
CLOGGY SAID HIS DAUGHTER IS DEAF!!!


get it, already.

Fuzzy

Shhh, there's no need to scream, LTHFAdvocate already explain to me clearly what Cloggy meant as " will have a hearing identity"... now I get it and already aplogize for not understanding it at first, so there's no reason for you to keep jumping on my back everytime I reply to Cloggy....

 

[shel90]

Just found out today that we will be getting 4 more new students referred to our school from the oral-only programs. How many more kids have to suffer before people realize that sign language is very critical for young deaf children especially in the academic setting as concepts become more and more complex?


If that makes me negative, oh well. Language access for all deaf/hoh children is my #1 priority.

 

[jillio]

Many of you want us to have a positive view on cochlear implants, how can we, I mean look around you, some of you are already saying hearing parents does not have to learn sign language because their CI child now can hear, one of you had already deny your deaf child's true identity because now he/she can hear....


I'm starting to see why Cheri, Liebling, Shel90, Jillio are always debates about these implants, because hearing parents who want the best for this kids are willing to turn a blind eye to the benefits of teaching or still teaching their deaf children sign language...

Grr This really makes me soo mad, now I'm not so sure about these implants anymore, Thanks for those who finally woke me up

You hit the nail on the head, Angel. It's the parental willingness to consider all of the issues that is the problem, not the CI itself.

 

[jillio]

I try to stay away from these philosophical arguments, but your statement



is so clearly wrong, I felt the need to respond. Lotte's "identity" will be whatever LOTTE decides it's going to be, not what Cloggy thinks Lotte's identity to be, and certainly not what you think it should be. Identities are not objectively linked to physical traits. Identities are subjective, and also subject to change over time.

While I agree with you that a child's identity will be what that child decides it will be, I will have to disagree with you regarding the fact that her deafness is and always will be a part of her identity. Our identity formation is created through our experieces and perceptions as much as it is by membership in any particular group. Therefore, as Lotte is deaf, and will always be deaf, it will always be a part of her identity. The question remaining is whether it is incorporated as a healthy aspect of her identity, or an unhealthy one. Tales from deaf adults abound over the ways in which they have experienced an environment that did not allow for healthy integration of their deafness into their identity, and the problems created by such.

Likewise, even for those children who are exposed to an environment that restricts the healthy integration of deafness into identity formation, the majority, in adulthood, find some way to connect with the deaf community in order to fulfill the developmental needs that went unfulfilled by home and social environment as children.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Angel, with all due respect Cloggy said, repeated, agreed to YOU about Lotte being DEAF close a hundred times in the past.....
still just that past few days I saw how he told this repeatedly again, and you kept going at it: "Cloggy, your daughter is deaf, got it"?
YES YES Angel, he got it- he said it first.
If you, as you claim, got it -then why you keep telling Cloggy the same over and over? Perhaps a little yell WILL get your attention...? finally?

How many more kids have to suffer before people realize that sign language is very critical for young deaf children especially in the academic setting as concepts become more and more complex?

How can you be sure it was just lack of ASL that caused these delays?
there could be a basic reason for this - parents not paying attention to their children progress and general education.
Just the parent's responses from the link that Cheri provided proves the lack of ANY involvement on their part with their kids development - any development... let alone to teach them langauge.

Fuzzy

 

[Angel]

Angel, with all due respect Cloggy said, repeated, agreed to YOU about Lotte being DEAF close a hundred times in the past.....
still just that past few days I saw how he told this repeatedly again, and you kept going at it: "Cloggy, your daughter is deaf, got it"?
YES YES Angel, he got it- he said it first.
If you, as you claim, got it -then why you keep telling Cloggy the same over and over? Perhaps a little yell WILL get your attention...? finally?

Show me all those posts you said he repeatly told me 100 times in the past...I'm waiting Miss know it all ...