Wow, CI's are expensive

[inmate23]

a deaf person's body = millions to the industry....

Which industries...the interpretors, Deaf education, assistive listening and living?

I think(and pfh can correct if i am wrong) that items placed in and/or on the body

are millions to the industry....

if he talking about medical industry he is right

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

so, why aren't people out there protesting insurance paying for implants? Write your congressmen, tell them you want to repeal coverage for CIs.....

if it really matters to you, do something about it rather than complain here.

 

[drphil]

Reality check: how many implants are done? How many persons rejected for various medical reasons? How many other medical procedures are done?
I have mentioned before the experience here in Toronto-Sunnybrook. 18 years period: 850 implants and a rejection rate of 60%. Their area about 1/5 of Ontario.Info as of last year from Sunnybrook at a recent meeting of Implant patients. Yeah ,I am one of the 850.

Implanted Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

 

[deafdyke]

Which industries...the interpretors, Deaf education, assistive listening and living?

rick bear in mind that many of the mainstreamed and oral dhh as kids are also "dependent" on assisitive living stuff.
Seriously, pro oral only people make it sound like oral only has ALL the answers, and that every single oral only kid is gonna go off to college and isn't dependent on ASL.
You do realize that the low education acheivements ALSO are applicable for the pediatric dhh community as a WHOLE?
Also, why is it that oral only people view ASL as a "crutch" but yet they don't view FM or oral 'terps or CPrint/CART as "crutches?"

 

[inmate23]

Also, why is it that oral only people view ASL as a "crutch" but yet they don't view FM or oral 'terps or CPrint/CART as "crutches?"

Thats what I dont get either would an oralist please enlighten us please

 

[jillio]

Wirelessly posted

so, why aren't people out there protesting insurance paying for implants? Write your congressmen, tell them you want to repeal coverage for CIs.....

if it really matters to you, do something about it rather than complain here.

What makes you think they aren't out there doing something about it? Just who do you think made the proposal under health care reform that if CIs were paid for, insurance companies need to be mandated to pay for HAs too.

It sure as hell wasn't the hearing community.

 

[jillio]

Reality check: how many implants are done? How many persons rejected for various medical reasons? How many other medical procedures are done?
I have mentioned before the experience here in Toronto-Sunnybrook. 18 years period: 850 implants and a rejection rate of 60%. Their area about 1/5 of Ontario.Info as of last year from Sunnybrook at a recent meeting of Implant patients. Yeah ,I am one of the 850.

Implanted Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

Yep. CIs are and always will be in the minority. Exactly why ASL and Deaf Culture continue to thrive.

 

[jillio]

rick bear in mind that many of the mainstreamed and oral dhh as kids are also "dependent" on assisitive living stuff.
Seriously, pro oral only people make it sound like oral only has ALL the answers, and that every single oral only kid is gonna go off to college and isn't dependent on ASL.
You do realize that the low education acheivements ALSO are applicable for the pediatric dhh community as a WHOLE?
Also, why is it that oral only people view ASL as a "crutch" but yet they don't view FM or oral 'terps or CPrint/CART as "crutches?"

Dare I say it? Because they have an audist perspective. Those things are all English based. They are acceptable when ASL is not.

 

[GrendelQ]

Just who do you think made the proposal under health care reform that if CIs were paid for, insurance companies need to be mandated to pay for HAs too.

It sure as hell wasn't the hearing community.

Hmmm, lobbying for this coverage for HAs was a major initiative taken on by AGBell. I think there are a few hearing people involved in the org.

 

[sequoias]

In my opinion, CI implants are best for people who lost their hearing and want their hearing back. I don't think CI implants are for deaf people who grew up being deaf and never understood sounds 100% of the time. CI implants are basically useless for deaf people like me. Hearing aids are good enough.

 

[posts from hell]

Wirelessly posted

so, why aren't people out there protesting insurance paying for implants? Write your congressmen, tell them you want to repeal coverage for CIs.....

if it really matters to you, do something about it rather than complain here.

http://www.alldeaf.com/hearing-aids...forcing-deaf-child-wear-ci-3.html#post1755373

Done.

Also I said a deaf body is worth millions to the industry.. CI itself is only $150,000.

I don't see why your camp is making it out to be the CI itself. There's so much more bullshit involved with a deaf body.

 

[drphil]

If Cochlear Implants are such a " minority" why does the "deaf/Deaf community" get excited say- Comments here?
Since I don't live in USA-perhaps Michael Chorost's book: Rebuilt which does have a chapter on the impact of Cochlear Implants re "deaf/Deaf community" would be worth reading. He even quotes Mr Ateilo (?) head of the Deaf Association of USA (?) to long term effect. Further irony: he has an Cochlear Implant. Michael Chorost is also deaf with an Implant. His book was written 6 years ago.

Implanted Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

 

[GrendelQ]

http://www.alldeaf.com/hearing-aids...forcing-deaf-child-wear-ci-3.html#post1755373

Done.

Also I said a deaf body is worth millions to the industry.. CI itself is only $150,000.

I don't see why your camp is making it out to be the CI itself. There's so much more bullshit involved with a deaf body.

I haven't really gotten into the discussion each time it comes up because I'm not clearly understanding what's being objected to or what the objective is. When you say "a deaf body is worth millions to the industry" -- what industry are you referring to? Any industry or service or product relating to deaf/HOH-specific needs (there are so many that are involved: medical, manufacturing, consumer products, retail, academic/education, communication, high-tech, R&D, publishing, etc.) ?

And what changes do you want to see? A defunding of these because they are part of an economic built around deaf-related needs and professions (do you see a benefit to the deaf in eliminating all of this?)? Or some other change?

• hearing aid manufacturers
• cochlear implant manufacturers
• FM systems manufacturers
• academic and industrial R&D relating to hearing-related technology
• video, internet, telephone, relay, and mobile technologies aimed at the deaf
• captioning services & captioning technology development
• academic and industrial R&D relating to these communication-related technologies
• ENT medical care providers
• ENT-related clinics
• academic and industrial R&D for ENT-related medical care
• audiologists
• SLPs
• clinical psychologists & therapists
• teachers of the deaf
• ASL professionals
• CS professionals
• SEE professionals
• deaf culture professionals
• AVT professionals
• early intervention programs
• deaf mentor programs
• primary & secondary schools for the deaf
• Gallaudet, NTID, and other deaf-friendly sollege programs
• publishing & training program developers
• manufacturers & providers of educational technologies
• ASL interpreters / CDIs
• academic research related to deaf studies
• State and fed. Deaf & HOH programs (incl. VR programs and VR itself)
• Family sign programs
• deaf theatre programs
• deaf literacy organizations
• deaf forums & online communities
• deaf clubs and other organizations
• NAD, AGBell, ALDA, HLAA, hands & voices and other community and lobbying organizations for the deaf
• ADA-related accommodations providers
• ADA-related legal professionals
• (sure there's much more, but for now ....)

 

[posts from hell]

I haven't really gotten into the discussion each time it comes up because I'm not clearly understanding what's being objected to or what the objective is. When you say "a deaf body is worth millions to the industry" -- what industry are you referring to? Any industry or service or product relating to deaf/HOH-specific needs (there are so many that are involved: medical, manufacturing, consumer products, retail, academic/education, communication, high-tech, R&D, publishing, etc.) ?

And what changes do you want to see? A defunding of these because they are part of an economic built around deaf-related needs and professions (do you see a benefit to the deaf in eliminating all of this?)? Or some other change?

• hearing aid manufacturers
• cochlear implant manufacturers
• FM systems manufacturers
• academic and industrial R&D relating to hearing-related technology
• video, internet, telephone, relay, and mobile technologies aimed at the deaf
• captioning services & captioning technology development
• academic and industrial R&D relating to these communication-related technologies
• ENT medical care providers
• ENT-related clinics
• academic and industrial R&D for ENT-related medical care
• audiologists
• SLPs
• clinical psychologists & therapists
• teachers of the deaf
• ASL professionals
• CS professionals
• SEE professionals
• deaf culture professionals
• AVT professionals
• early intervention programs
• deaf mentor programs
• primary & secondary schools for the deaf
• Gallaudet, NTID, and other deaf-friendly sollege programs
• publishing & training program developers
• manufacturers & providers of educational technologies
• ASL interpreters / CDIs
• academic research related to deaf studies
• State and fed. Deaf & HOH programs (incl. VR programs and VR itself)
• Family sign programs
• deaf theatre programs
• deaf literacy organizations
• deaf forums & online communities
• deaf clubs and other organizations
• NAD, AGBell, ALDA, HLAA, hands & voices and other community and lobbying organizations for the deaf
• ADA-related accommodations providers
• ADA-related legal professionals
• (sure there's much more, but for now ....)

Thanks for proving my point. I didnt want to waste time typing all that up because I know the likes of you knew that already.

Point is - If there wasnt audism, desire to "fix" the deaf... Id wager that most of the above wouldnt exist.

You see, we spend sooooo much on the deaf... and theres still the 70% unemployment and attrition rate... So basically what the hearing has done for the deaf the past century is not even working - it is just profiting off the deaf.

Deaf clubs, theater, etc is not exactly as profitable as the things the hearing professionals get from being able to bill insurance for "fixing" the deaf. I also wouldnt use it in comparison because the general society has the same stuff, look at ELKS, Moose Lodge, Boy scouts, etc.

It's really time to change all that and invest in education. For the deaf and hearing alike. Billions per year can be spent in education, and we would save in long run being a more tolerant society.

 

[GrendelQ]

Point is - If there wasnt audism, desire to "fix" the deaf... Id wager that most of the above wouldnt exist.

Is that what you want, that most of this didn't exist? I'm not arguing one way or the other, I just haven't seen you explain what your objective is, why you are pointing out that there are many industries tied to the deaf.

You propose to keep only education-related services/products (asl and oral deaf schools/colleges and associated educational professionals/academic research) and eliminate all else? No hearing aids, no accommodations, no medical services/professionals, no deaf arts (except for theatre), no lobbyists/legal, VR, deaf commissions, NAD, captioning, and so on down the list? I need to put some thought into what that would be like before I respond further, but is that what you are looking for?

 

[posts from hell]

dont read my post line by line, read it as it is, a whole picture and you'll find the answer.

 

[GrendelQ]

dont read my post line by line, read it as it is, a whole picture and you'll find the answer.

Do you feel that all of the "support" and infrastructure built up around deafness only serves to build up the walls differentiating deaf as something not "normal?" That in an ideal world, the deaf and hearing should interact on a daily basis without accommodation, without special technologies, schools, medical care, both deaf and hearing extending beyond their comfort zones/'natural' means of communicating to reach each other?

 

[posts from hell]

Do you feel that all of the "support" and infrastructure built up around deafness only serves to build up the walls differentiating deaf as something not "normal?" That in an ideal world, the deaf and hearing should interact on a daily basis without accommodation, without special technologies, schools, medical care, both deaf and hearing extending beyond their comfort zones/'natural' means of communicating to reach each other?

:roll: do you really think I am saying that?

 

[GrendelQ]

:roll: do you really think I am saying that?

Hard to say. I'm really not sure what your perspective is. If you've made a specific proposal or outline an issue and recommendations -- please point me to it, I don't mean to have you repeat yourself. I just haven't seen it. I've just seen a vague 'need to change all that.'

That's why I've asked you pretty directly why you are pointing out the massive amount of support and infrastructure invested in the deaf market, and what your goal is. What is it you want to see changed? I don't know if I agree with you or not, I'm not trying to trap you. You are asking me to play a guessing game rather than just provide an answer -- so don't get all :roll: at my guesses .

Another guess: I think you object to the deaf market, to any profitable industries built around deafness. Which would leave what you described as the unprofitable: Deaf education, theatre, and the arts. (I have to both laugh and cry at that -- my husband is a teacher and a theatre director, so I know the financial pain of the arts intimately )

Warmer? Do you actually have a perspective on this, or are you just posting interesting tidbits to see which way the wind blows?

 

[posts from hell]

Hard to say. I'm really not sure what your perspective is. If you've made a specific proposal or outline an issue and recommendations -- please point me to it, I don't mean to have you repeat yourself. I just haven't seen it. I've just seen a vague 'need to change all that.'

That's why I've asked you pretty directly why you are pointing out the massive amount of support and infrastructure invested in the deaf market, and what your goal is. What is it you want to see changed? I don't know if I agree with you or not, I'm not trying to trap you. You are asking me to play a guessing game rather than just provide an answer -- so don't get all :roll: at my guesses .

Another guess: I think you object to the deaf market, to any profitable industries built around deafness. Which would leave what you described as the unprofitable: Deaf education, theatre, and the arts. (I have to both laugh and cry at that -- my husband is a teacher and a theatre director, so I know the financial pain of the arts intimately )

Warmer? Do you actually have a perspective on this, or are you just posting interesting tidbits to see which way the wind blows?

you know exactly why i put the :roll: there.


I dont know how clearer I can be.... The answer is right there.. I'm not surprised you can't see it. It will take some time, i guess.

if you can't understand commersons film that i have pointed out in this thread --
How many jobs that would be lost if there was a magic pill that cured all deafness, speech issues, and turned people into "hearing people" culturally as well.
What makes you think they're not holding back on latest advances? Think about that one.