Will my daughter be accepted in the Deaf Community w/ a CI?

Passcifst actually you are wrong. The reason why the seperatist mentality was created was b/c back in the old days (like fifties and sixties) people thought that hoh and orally skilled folks were more "hearing" then Deaf. They were encouraged to assimulate into the greater hearing world, with little to no speshal needs support. This in turn created a significent population of Signers with little to no oral skills, who were taught that speech and hearing equated with not being "really" deaf. If we can push the fact that having oral skills isn't enough, then that will create a signficent population of kids who are bilingal, and who don't subscribe to the either or theories.
 
I think C.I. was orginally viewed as trying to make a deaf person to be a hearing person which is why it was so against by deaf people... so my personally opinion.. as long as your daughter is fully socially by deaf and is exposed to Deaf Culture and understood that she is Deaf but have ability to hear and have ability to communicate with both "worlds" (deaf and hearing) She will be fine with it.

I cant however say if she will be accepted by deaf if she uses C.I. but i do notice the reactions is getting better nowadays.

my advice whether if she wear hearing aid or cochlear implant just teach her to be okay with who she is despite the frustrations sometimes, and teach her how to stand up for herself and be tough. most of all teach her to be proud of who she is.

if she is proud of herself no matter what she wore to help hear a bit better then Deaf people (especially children) will have better respect :)

(im not telling u how to raise your daughter, just giving you a few tips on how to handle stuff if negative does happen :) )

I agree with all of this! And I especially liked what SpiceHD said in bold!
 
Passcifst actually you are wrong. The reason why the seperatist mentality was created was b/c back in the old days (like fifties and sixties) people thought that hoh and orally skilled folks were more "hearing" then Deaf. They were encouraged to assimulate into the greater hearing world, with little to no speshal needs support. This in turn created a significent population of Signers with little to no oral skills, who were taught that speech and hearing equated with not being "really" deaf. If we can push the fact that having oral skills isn't enough, then that will create a signficent population of kids who are bilingal, and who don't subscribe to the either or theories.

The key obviously, and as at first stated, neither oral means nor sign-language in isolation are enough, to 'compete'/utilize' aspects of mainstream deaf need to, and want. We MUST take on those who advocate either one, or the other. The only exception being obviously those who cannot, who are a very small minority and not the overall MAJORITY activists claim is the case. It's education as usual, deaf education is non-inclusive of the full box, it is changing as we write into secularization of modes via 'preferences' and 'choice'. Culture, has given the green light to this happening. It must logically then be assumed culture is anti integrational in nature and direction with regards to the deaf.

Isolation to various degrees is out lot, it need not be accepted as a situation we can never change in regards to mainstream. More skills oral/signing or whatever is available have to be introduced and no, choice isn't really a thing to encourage at that point, I realize this upsets some the fact choice in education should not be automatic, but we are talking about a sector of people who really need all the strings to their bow they can get, we mustn't be swayed by 'purists' who insist any attempt to teach oral/signing skills is an attack In culture, it is an enablement of the deaf individual who really can, once skills are acquired practice real choice.

If we examine mainstream education there are few areas the student picks to learn what they want, basics like Language and literacy are not a 'choice' issue, but a necessity, or they cannot access the world. Likewise the deaf they need ALL the communication skills we are able to offer them, choice, is NOT an option, if that is to succeed, or 'bi-linguality' is really a myth.
 
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*trying hard to ignore deafdyke and passive's debate and not to comment on it*

one more tip... There will alway be a big debate on Cochlear Implant. Now.. this is a FACT... no one is wrong.. no one is right. If someone is against it.. Fine thats their opinion. so Definitely teach your daughter not to take it so personally if someone bluntly told her they dont like C.I. (doubt it will happen anyway now that most Deaf people are openly accepting it) and understand that it is their opinion... not your not your daughter but theirs. If your daughter likes it.. and if you support it.. then darnnit give it 110% effort. no half measurement or weak efforts. They WILL respect you. Some just take longer than others. I guess im just saying do not worry about if she will be accepted by deaf community ... its like asking if deaf with CP or Deaf with wheelchair will be accepted into deaf community. You just be yourself and they will respect that most of all. Cochlear implant is just an item to be used. not living thing *winks*
 
*trying hard to ignore deafdyke and passive's debate and not to comment on it*

one more tip... There will alway be a big debate on Cochlear Implant. Now.. this is a FACT... no one is wrong.. no one is right. If someone is against it.. Fine thats their opinion. so Definitely teach your daughter not to take it so personally if someone bluntly told her they dont like C.I. (doubt it will happen anyway now that most Deaf people are openly accepting it) and understand that it is their opinion... not your not your daughter but theirs. If your daughter likes it.. and if you support it.. then darnnit give it 110% effort. no half measurement or weak efforts. They WILL respect you. Some just take longer than others. I guess im just saying do not worry about if she will be accepted by deaf community ... its like asking if deaf with CP or Deaf with wheelchair will be accepted into deaf community. You just be yourself and they will respect that most of all. Cochlear implant is just an item to be used. not living thing *winks*

:gpost:
 
We MUST take on those who advocate either one, or the other. The only exception being obviously those who cannot, who are a very small minority and not the overall MAJORITY activists claim is the case.
Passcifist, how do you suggest that we do that? I mean the thing is.....we both agree that we need to push the full toolbox approach. Virtually EVERYONE here agrees that. the full toolbox approach is good.
 
*look at deafdyke and passcifist in diguest* a suggestion for u two... agrue abt it in other thread or in private...

you two are starting to get on my nerves... sorry but really...
 
Ditto.............having a CI or not having a CI really doesn't matter....it's really the attitude towards Sign and Deaf culture that really matters. Some of the oral deaf folks who've had CIs have been really "high and mighty" about their oral abilty.....but you know.....1/2 of implantees are TCers......so eventually I think people won't really care about CIs....they are controversial, but I've seen them getting a lot more accepted lately.

I'm with deafdyke on this one.... I've seen some children with CI who knows no sign language or have knowledge of the deaf culture not even their family. I am not here to judge them, I just think that they're only looking out for themselves, if they are hearing, 'let's make our children hearing also'. But, they're forgetting one thing, their children are still deaf when the CI is turn off, So why can't they learn sign lanugage or learn about the Deaf Culture? I believe that the Deaf Community would be more accepting those with CI, the ones that wants to fit in, and learn about the Deaf Culture and associate with those in the Deaf world.
 
*look at deafdyke and passcifist in diguest* a suggestion for u two... agrue abt it in other thread or in private...

you two are starting to get on my nerves... sorry but really...

They both have different view points, We could learn a thing or two from both of them. So let them have their say on this very subject.
 
Thing is the reason why I'm full toolbox approach, even for mildly hoh kids, is b/c the assimulation approach has never really worked well except for very high acheiving (even for hearing folks) kids. I mean.......what's so wrong about wanting to give kids all the tools possible to suceed? Why do we have to "save" the disabilty tools for those who are more severely affected? Why can't mildly effected people ALSO benifit from aids and things that are more traditionally reserved for those with more severe disablity? I mean we have the attitude that people with milder disabilites don't need disabilty aids.......but WHY? It takes a LOT of energy for someone with a disablity to function "normally" .....energy that could be better spent on other things!
I mean back when I only spoke and wrote manually (I have nereomuscualr issues) I spent all my energy on that, instead of actual output. While I do have very good spoken language skills, my articlation and enunucation are CRAP. Another person might be able to speak, but have significent language issues, so that they could only talk at a very basic level, whereas they might be able to express themselves at a Harvard level in Sign. Also, back when I only manually wrote instead of typed, I had to put ALL my energy into manually writing things. My creative output suffered.......now that I mostly type, I've even had lots of things published!
 
In my opinion, you are handling this the right way, and you and your daughter should have no problem being accepted into the signing Deaf community. I, a hearing person, have a number of deaf friends and they like my involvement in the Deaf community. If you both can sign and don't have an attitude of "I'm better than you because I can hear", you will be welcomed. :)

Both of you can be part of it. Neither of you being able to hear in any form will exclude you--it's all about attitude.
 
In my opinion, you are handling this the right way, and you and your daughter should have no problem being accepted into the signing Deaf community. I, a hearing person, have a number of deaf friends and they like my involvement in the Deaf community. If you both can sign and don't have an attitude of "I'm better than you because I can hear", you will be welcomed. :)

Both of you can be part of it. Neither of you being able to hear in any form will exclude you--it's all about attitude.

That's correct, Good posting! ;) But, on the other hand, there are some deaf people in the Deaf Community have this snotty attitude too toward those with CI. It does goes both ways.
 
don't have an attitude of "I'm better than you because I can hear",
Definitly.......that's what Passcifist is not getting.
Cheri, I think there are some seperatists who'd be that way no matter what, but I really think that most anti-CI/ anti-oral folks in the Deaf community are like that b/c they've experianced the stereotypical AG Bell member who is all high and mighty b/c they can hear and function in the hearing world and b/c they are supposedly "better educated then Deaf people."
 
Definitly.......that's what Passcifist is not getting.
Cheri, I think there are some seperatists who'd be that way no matter what, but I really think that most anti-CI/ anti-oral folks in the Deaf community are like that b/c they've experianced the stereotypical AG Bell member who is all high and mighty b/c they can hear and function in the hearing world and b/c they are supposedly "better educated then Deaf people."

I think I've posted this before ... but why couldn't it be the other way around? I.e., orals who avoid the Deaf community because they've experienced the stereotypical militant Deafie with a signing superiority complex?
 
but why couldn't it be the other way around? I.e., orals who avoid the Deaf community because they've experienced the stereotypical militant Deafie with a signing superiority complex?
Well it probaly is a mix of causes right now........but I really believe that the direct cause of Deaf militantism was AG Bell types. For generations and generations, oral people were taught that they were SO ABOVE those poor crippled handicapped folks who HAD to depend on Sign. If it hadn't been for those types, then oral folks would not have trouble trying to fit into the Deaf community. I mean I think that there are some hardcore seperatists who believe anything connected to hearing is bad, and so are militant seperatist Deaf. But a lot of that attitude has to do with extreme Oral people, who look down on those who Sign. Not all orally skilled folks are like that......but there are enough out there to sour Deaf folks from being welcoming to people who are orally skilled. Trust me.....there are a significent amount of AG Beller types who are just so high and mighty about their oral skills, that it almost makes you want to slap them!
 
cis

well im from a LARGE deaf family ofc im against cis on little kids becasue some parents just wanted them to " transform" to hearing or upset that thier kids aint perfect BUT otherwise if parents still wanna kids involved with deaf commuity even though kids have cis THAT IS SO WONDERFUL! bec the kid can be aware there is 2 cultrues out there.. i was exposed to both cultrues bec my grandparents and my bro is hearing and i have no problem..
My ex and i have 2 deaf sons.. one is autsic and other have adhd and WE refuse trade them for other things and put "scince things" in them.. they are healthy ... just puttin my 5 cents in..
 
After reading everyone's comments about this issue I was fascinated by all the debates and points. I think everyone has good points.

Growing up, I didnt know sign language and I was brain-washed by my teachers that my intelligence was linked to my good speech and lipreading skills due to comments like "Oh you speak so well for a deaf child so u must be so smart." and blah blah..

So, of course, I grew up with the high and mighty attitude towards my brother's friends from his deaf school who used ASL because I could speak and lipread and didnt need sign language. It was like in my mind that sign language was for deaf people who werent intelligent. Of course, my brother got picked on by his friends for having a stuck up deaf sister who refused to learn sign language.

I went to ASU and took ASL classes as a foreign language requirement. Even as an adult, I still had the "superior" attidude so I had a big ego saying that ASL will be easy for me and I will pass it with flying colors. Oooops..I was soooo wrong but I am SO happy cuz it opened my eyes and changed my whole perspective. I was shocked that there was a deaf culture and that ASL is a language. So, I learned it but it was SO hard for me due to the grammatical differences. I tried to socialize with deaf people but of course without knowing it, I got a reputation in the Phx deaf community as my brother's stuck up sister so when I tried to socialize with them, they shut me out. Cant blame them. Now, they realize that I didnt know better and have accepted me. They are so happy that I know ASL now..LOL! I know my brother is THRILLED!!! Poor thing..it must have been so hard for him to grow up with me.

I regret not learning ASL and I resent the attitudes that my teachers and doctors modeled to me about deafness and sign language.

I am not against CI as long as the parents or doctors dont assume that the child is hearing just cuz he/she can speak or lipread well with the CI. I am glad that you are learning ASL for your daughter's sake. :h5: to you.
 
I'll take your view on that.... but it did address real worries parents have.. they might lose contact with their children once 'assimilation' occurs into the deaf community.. parents are hearing mainly, it is a short change from being negative towards hearing, to being negative towards ones parents who are hearing too. "My parents don't sign", "They want me to learn oral skills", "My peers will reject me if I do, or have done this","Hearing don't understand deaf culture/people". THAT can be seen negative (Albeit true in part), as well. It comes across as 'anti-hearing'.

The continuation of deaf culture/language seems to be promoted as ONLY being viable if deaf keep as much distance between themselves and hearing as possible in some quarters. It is aided and abeted to a degree by sign-language, which because few hearing use it or will learn it, provides a very effective barrier too, many who use sign will obviously not be 'talking' direct to mainstream but using an intermediary (An interpreter), hearing see this as a barrier too, and negativeIn the UK 9 out of 10 systems that 'enable' deaf people are listed under serious social disablement, and even our police list deaf people as 'mentally handicapped'.

Yes they may respect deaf rights to use an interpreter but HOW, do they percieve this ? as a deaf person being dependant ? or Independant ? Enabled ? or supported ? Many deaf feel it is liberating and enabling, it is deaf gaining access and rights, but I've seen many hearing in mainstream saying and thinking quite the opposite. A dependant minority is a general view. A sector that needs 'help', I don't think deaf activism has really addressed the overall issue, of how others, see them, or really care so long as they can continue they way they are, integration is a non-start isn't it ? Deaf need to see themselves as others see them and start righting the wrong ideas, not being negative back we have MORE to lose than mainstream does.

I'd like to see the full box used, and a LOT more deaf-hearing interaction than I see at present, why do I feel I am wasting my time ? Deaf activism, (Not grass roots), is determined to oppose wherever they can to 'protect' culture. Does this suggest they haven't the confidence in it they say ? I suppose even using the term 'peers' is immediately drawing some line... yes we're deaf, no, it isn't impossible/undesireable for us and hearing to live and work or understand each other. Our deafness remains, but the barriers aren't needed to maintain THAT. It's a form of 'Deaf protectionism', which isn't I feel neccessary. We will get nowhere attacking mainstream or hearing people. A lot too, do not want to spend their lives stuck in some dead end either. The world is ours too.

The way to prevenrt loosing your child through assimilation into a different culture is to embrace that culture as an integral part of who your child is.
 
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