Why Cochlear Implants Hurt Deaf Culture?

[deafdyke]

Sigh.........Stats on the Coachlear Americas page say that CI users are evenly divved up between oral users AND TC users. Also, the majority of oral kids (and even some auditory-verbaled) kids WILL eventually learn Sign.
Look, I'm only hoh. Some Deafies who are very "deafer then thou" look down on me, b/c they think I'm more hearing then deaf. BUT THAT view is a HEARIE view! Hey, there are kids out there who don't even have a unilateral loss, but use Sign as a primary language due to things like apraxia or tracheostomies!!!! If the hearing aid didn't kill off deaf culture, then the CI won't! Did you guys know that back in the early days of hearing aids, they thought that hearing aids would hurt and destroy Deaf culture?

 

[Cheri]

Did you guys know that back in the early days of hearing aids, they thought that hearing aids would hurt and destroy Deaf culture?

No, I did not, I never heard one person ever mention about hearing aids destorying the Deaf Community in real life back in the old days. Everyone around me wore hearing aids.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I've noticed some deaf people are saying that cochlear implants hurt their deaf culture and I'm curious to know why they feel that way, please remember to keep an open mind on both sides, cause I'm willing to listen to everyone's view/opinions on this topic here...Please let's discuss in a civil manner without putting anyone down, Thanks


Why do some of you feel that cochlear implants hurt the deaf culture?....

Well, I began to notice slowly that hearing parents want their children to be like them and want them live in hearing world. It shows that they do not accept deaf world which sad.

1. I have a lot of hearing parents here in Germany who implant their children with CI. Some of them accept their children are deaf and let their children mix with CI, HOH, hearing & deafies and learn sign language for their children, some not. Most hearing parents put their CI children to school for HOH (hard of hearing) because they think their children are "hearing".

2. I have a HOH friend who is teacher for the deaf children. She suggest deaf children to mix with CI and HOH children but most parents rejected it. Why? Because they don't want their CI or HOH children get influence from deaf children to neglect their speech development. She tried to convince hearing parents that deaf children goes to speech therapy and improve their speech development but hearing parents refused to hear it, which sad. She felt that the doctors are the one who blames to influence hearing parents to hurt Deaf culture.

3. My hubby went Reba clinic for 4 weeks and met CI users around there. He spent whole month to know them better. Some of CI users can sign, some not but they are willing to learn sign. CI users stay with CI user group at other resturant/room and Deafies and interpreter stay with deafies group at resturant separate from CI users accord doctor's order... My hubby was like huh? During evening discussion with deafies group, deafies asked the doctor with the help from interpreter why they do not allow to share the same table with CI users? The doctor answered: Accord Science, CI users should stay away from deafies to consider their CI and learn how to speak and hear... The doctor said that CI users and deafies can share their experience DURING break time... but it's recommend to not get heavily involved with deafies because CI users should consider their CI and learn their new experience...

4. I has to honest with you that I noticed a lot of hearing parents implanted their toddlers with CI and deafies would not do that for their deaf children but let their children's choice here in Germany. I was shock to learn after registered my first American forum (DL) in 2004 that DEAF people label me as anti-CI, etc... because I do not agree to implant babies to toddlers... To my opinion, the deaf parents who implants their babies/toddlers are not happy and satasify themselves. It's first time I learn is American forums. For hearing parents is a different story because they didn't know about deaf culture.

To my opinion, like what my friend who is teacher for deaf children say: Don't blame Cochlears Implant who hurt Deaf Culture but doctors and Scientists.

Some of you said about HA... Yes, we wore HA like everyone when we were little. It's doctors who got the parents to wear us HA... The parents wear HA on us because they beleives doctor. The doctors did not influence the parents negative about deaf world that's time until CI tech. comes.... I wish that doctors should not influence the parents negative about deaf culture, etc. to consider CI and hearing world.

 

[R2D2]

CI is too loud, not hear so normal, unlike hearing aid, nothing to cure my life and too much money to spent. I had serious problem with dizzy like became sick at LA middle school and I'm decided to quit wear CI when I was in freshmen. It's won't my mom fault but doctor forced some kids to get CI for discount cost.

I'm active with hearing aid, not all children are so.

Which country did you get your CI in? Here in Australia the criteria for getting a CI is very strict. If a child got benefit from hearing aids he or she would not qualify for a CI. Also for children it is publically funded so there is no profit motive involved, unless the parent decided to go the private health route (no point as the doctors are just as good in the public system). Even along the private route the tests are strict as the insurance companies don't want their funds wasted.

I think its good to have those strict controls to avoid the situation that happened to you.

It also sounds like the aftercare with your CI may not have been very good. Were you mapped on a regular basis to solve the problem with the loud sounds?

 

[rockdrummer]

It shows that they do not accept deaf world which sad..

Liebling, that comment is so NOT true. Your comment and others that I have heard like, "The parents want CI for their children because they don't accept them for who they are" are so off target that I started a thread asking the question why parents choose CI's for their children. I did that in the hopes to educate the people that feel CI choice is about acceptance. Unfortunatly, there doesn't seem to be a lot of parents on AD that have been faced with this decision. You can see the thread at http://www.alldeaf.com/showthread.php?t=26859

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Liebling, that comment is so NOT true. Your comment and others that I have heard like, "The parents want CI for their children because they don't accept them for who they are" are so off target that I started a thread asking the question why parents choose CI's for their children. I did that in the hopes to educate the people that feel CI choice is about acceptance. Unfortunatly, there doesn't seem to be a lot of parents on AD that have been faced with this decision. You can see the thread at http://www.alldeaf.com/showthread.php?t=26859

I do not mean YOU but made my post in general way what I know from my experience in Germany... and what I feeling about them... I mean different than you think.

That's way I like about you and Cloggy because you both join deaf forum to learn about us and learn sign which hearing parents doesn't. They want their children to be like them and want them live in hearing world... They rejected to let their children to mix with deaf and HOH children because they think deaf children would influence HOH and CI to neglect speech development which it's not true. They put their "hearing" children to school for hard of hearing because they don't use sign but speak. That's what they doing shows that they do not accept to understand about deaf culture.

I blame nobody as person but doctors and scientist who influence them negatively about deaf culture.

 

[IslandGal]

I never quite understood that concept myself. I admit I can understand why they do that (the psychology) but I think it is rather like shooting oneself in the foot. What price friendships especially good ones? What does a CI have to do with it? Friendships should transend such differences... Some of the greatest friendships have been the ones that the two people are totally different from each other and yet they have an understanding between them.

I will say this as well, sometimes you just have to let them go and find their way. They may realize their mistake and come back. If they don't, they weren't really your friend to begin with. Life happens to everybody and the ones who can live and let live are the best in dealing with the ups and downs that come along. Is it fair? Heck no, life is not fair. Nobody is immune to the vicissitudes of life.

Given all that, don't let that be a reason to be upset with all CI folks out there. Most of us are quite reasonable people and put on our pants like anybody else. Everybody got their idiots that can spoil the party. Just ignore them...

Oh yes, I let my friend go after she got mad at me for letting a sales lady at a store that we were deaf after she came up to us asking us if she could be of a help. My friend spoke to her but the sales lady couldn't understand what she was saying so I mentioned to her that we were deaf so she would speak more slowly to us. I mean what was wrong with me letting the sales lady know that we were deaf?

I am not upset with all CI'ers because I do know there are a lot wonderful CI'ers out there but it is just I get upset with some CI'ers who push deaf people away. I am not against CI but I just wish that these people wouldn't label themselves as "hearies". They need to remember that even though they have a CI they will always be deaf. I am happy for them if they are happy with their CI's but I am not happy to see what CIs are doing to some of these people like my ex friend.

 

[IceCream]

Oh yes, I let my friend go after she got mad at me for letting a sales lady at a store that we were deaf after she came up to us asking us if she could be of a help. My friend spoke to her but the sales lady couldn't understand what she was saying so I mentioned to her that we were deaf so she would speak more slowly to us. I mean what was wrong with me letting the sales lady know that we were deaf?

I think some deaf people just don't like the attention. Maybe that's how your friend feels. Everyone's different how they feel about their deafness. Not everyone feels proud about their deafness like the Deaf Culture does, and that's one thing I dislike is that the Deaf Culture wants people to feel the same about their deafness. What if they don't feel the same? What if it's hard for them? Suddenly it's labeled that they don't accept their deafness. That's not always true. They may accept it by doing their best living with it, but they may not like being deaf or some struggles with it. Just like some people try to hide that they have a mild disability. I have seen that, and the deaf people are exactly the same. I don't blame them for that. You could have asked your friends kindly why she feels that way and accept her answer because that's how SHE feels. It's hard to relate when you feel different yourself from your friends.

I am not upset with all CI'ers because I do know there are a lot wonderful CI'ers out there but it is just I get upset with some CI'ers who push deaf people away. I am not against CI but I just wish that these people wouldn't label themselves as "hearies". They need to remember that even though they have a CI they will always be deaf. I am happy for them if they are happy with their CI's but I am not happy to see what CIs are doing to some of these people like my ex friend.

Well, to be honest, sometimes they sound hearing from the way they describe their experience to me, and it doesn't bother me if they change their way of identifying their hearing. For example, I feel more hard of hearing with my CI than a deaf person. I relate a lot to hard of hearing people more than deaf people in terms of hearing.

I am sorry some things hurt you, and I do not understand why you take it personal. They go through a different change, and we all evolve through experiences. Maybe your ex-friend has issues, but that's HER issue to worry about. It doesn't mean they reject you.

For example, there was this girl who got a CI who signed mostly and talked some. She and I met sometimes, and I would usually never sign with her because I talked and lip read instead. She could do it, so I thought it's not really an issue. Then someone told me that she thought I didn't like her because she signed, which was SO untrue. I believe there are misunderstanding.

 

[IslandGal]

I think some deaf people just don't like the attention. Maybe that's how your friend feels. Everyone's different how they feel about their deafness. Not everyone feels proud about their deafness like the Deaf Culture does, and that's one thing I dislike is that the Deaf Culture wants people to feel the same about their deafness. What if they don't feel the same? What if it's hard for them? Suddenly it's labeled that they don't accept their deafness. That's not always true. They may accept it by doing their best living with it, but they may not like being deaf or some struggles with it. Just like some people try to hide that they have a mild disability. I have seen that, and the deaf people are exactly the same. I don't blame them for that. You could have asked your friends kindly why she feels that way and accept her answer because that's how SHE feels. It's hard to relate when you feel different yourself from your friends.

Well, to be honest, sometimes they sound hearing from the way they describe their experience to me, and it doesn't bother me if they change their way of identifying their hearing. For example, I feel more hard of hearing with my CI than a deaf person. I relate a lot to hard of hearing people more than deaf people in terms of hearing.

Don't like attention? My friend seemed to be embarrassed when I told the sales lady that we were deaf. Why are you preaching to me about my friend? You do not know her but I do. She was implanted with a CI 2 years ago at age 39 and then all of a sudden she decides to dump her deaf friends.

I am sorry some things hurt you, and I do not understand why you take it personal. They go through a different change, and we all evolve through experiences. Maybe your ex-friend has issues, but that's HER issue to worry about. It doesn't mean they reject you.

You are right you do not understand because you do not know me at all but you shoud be able to understand about how I felt when she pushed me away after being her friend for so long. By the way, I am not hurt anymore because I am glad to know that she wasn't my true friend at all.

For example, there was this girl who got a CI who signed mostly and talked some. She and I met sometimes, and I would usually never sign with her because I talked and lip read instead. She could do it, so I thought it's not really an issue. Then someone told me that she thought I didn't like her because she signed, which was SO untrue. I believe there are misunderstanding.

Again, you do not know me and my friend. We are not you and your friend.

 

[Angel]

I create this thread for a purpose for others to be able to express their feelings out why they feel that cochlear implants hurt the deaf culture, and when some of them have done so, I don't expect anyone to say why taking it personal?, and we ALL go through a different changes in life, and we all gone through many different experiences, not only those who are implanted with CI...


Butterfly Girl,


Once again, I'm truly sorry about your friend, I've seen and heard stories from others how their CI friends felt embarrassed being around those who are deaf as well as those who are deaf felt embarrassed being around friends who are CI users, I've seen it goes both ways, it sad that this had to happen, and only wish they will look within their heart, that no matter what sort of changes they may have, they're still deaf and very much part of the deaf culture...






Please don't feel the need to be scare to post, I'll make sure every person here has a right to be heard...

 

[Foxrac]

TrippLA, Angel only wondering why you don't like CI. It's not purpose of Angel to upset you but wondering. We would love to hear your story why you are not happy with CI. I will respect you if you dont' want to talk about this.

Yes, I already received unhappy stories from CI users here, other forums and in real life. I would not say ALL but most who are unhappy because they were being forced by their parents to CI surgery when they were children.

That's true about my parent (excluding father, divocred in 1993) was forced me to get it because she was drool at one guy that give great advertise about CI (make alot of money from CI companies) then both of them forced me to got CI for no reason. I'm active with hearing aids but my inner ears are ruined after surgery and hearing aids will not work if got CI in it, unless they want take CI out but I haven't decide yet. If don't anything so I would can go to doctor/surgery in other countries (like Mexico) like one of my friend had took CI out from surgery in Latin America, I don't remember about few last years ago.

I do explain about my stories to them.

 

[Foxrac]

Which country did you get your CI in? Here in Australia the criteria for getting a CI is very strict. If a child got benefit from hearing aids he or she would not qualify for a CI. Also for children it is publically funded so there is no profit motive involved, unless the parent decided to go the private health route (no point as the doctors are just as good in the public system). Even along the private route the tests are strict as the insurance companies don't want their funds wasted.

I think its good to have those strict controls to avoid the situation that happened to you.

It also sounds like the aftercare with your CI may not have been very good. Were you mapped on a regular basis to solve the problem with the loud sounds?

USA, I got surgery from Los Angeles Children Hospital in 1999. CI isn't so perfect to me to hear, I had problem with over-loud and not hear so normal as hearing aids do. The test in USA for children before get CI are messed up and some mistake and waste alot of funds from insurance. USA don't care if kids get CI in anytime with any mistakes. Medical insurances are supposed to not cover with CI so most parents would can't afford it.

That's intresting what u said. Just seems like in Canada that where very few children got CI (got surgery in late 80's and early 90's) and medical is strict cuz free medical center that cover like all important are broken leg, heart attack, kidney disease, brain cancer and other serious disease. CI is not important for them to have it so all children are required to have one choice to get hearing aid.

 

[Angel]

That's true about my parent (excluding father, divocred in 1993) was forced me to get it because she was drool at one guy that give great advertise about CI (make alot of money from CI companies) then both of them forced me to got CI for no reason. I'm active with hearing aids but my inner ears are ruined after surgery and hearing aids will not work if got CI in it, unless they want take CI out but I haven't decide yet. If don't anything so I would can go to doctor/surgery in other countries (like Mexico) like one of my friend had took CI out from surgery in Latin America, I don't remember about few last years ago.

I do explain about my stories to them.

Even through you can hear so well with the use of hearing aids but your parents still forced you to get implanted with CI?


I'm sorry I'm just trying to understand some things that's all

 

[Angel]

I remember I was told that CI will not help me that was back in 1993, but I'm curious to know now if I could get one...

 

[Gemtun]

I remember I was told that CI will not help me that was back in 1993, but I'm curious to know now if I could get one...

Criteria for getting a CI has changed since 1993. I was told that I couldnt get a CI too but when I went to see my audiologist in 2004, he told me that I am qualified for it.

Best thing you can do is make an appointment to see your doctor to get a referral to an audiologist to see if you are a candiate or not.

 

[Angel]

Criteria for getting a CI has changed since 1993. I was told that I couldnt get a CI too but when I went to see my audiologist in 2004, he told me that I am qualified for it.

Best thing you can do is make an appointment to see your doctor to get a referral to an audiologist to see if you are a candiate or not.

Really? Wow, Thank you so much Gemtun, I sure will

 

[highlands]

I'm sure you would get high benefit from a CI ,Angel.. Good luck

 

[Foxrac]

Even through you can hear so well with the use of hearing aids but your parents still forced you to get implanted with CI?


I'm sorry I'm just trying to understand some things that's all

Of course, my mom is doing mistake but not all her fault cuz one guy that who advertise about CI and discuss alot so it make my mom so drool.

 

[DefLord]

Actually once you have the CI - hearing aids will not benefit at all. That is the whole purpose of the CI. If you dont benefit from the Hearing aid then CI is your last option if you want to hear.

And honestly - in the US they are pretty STRICT on how and who they implant. When I asked about 4 years ago abotu getting a CI they said I wasnt' qualified because I could talk on teh phone. Well 4 years later *I could still talk on te phone with my hearing aid but not clearly but i could* They said I qualified. They said they have found those who have severe hearing loss and used to be able to hear but has progressive loss benefit better than those who were profoundly deaf.

 

[highlands]

interesting.. I have severe and profound loss.. ( 86 DBL in the left, 95 DBL in the right )... but I'll try digital HAs first.. if they don't work well for me then I may think of getting a CI... I just want to communicate better with hearing world..