Why CI is bad for kids under 6 yrs.

[Buffalo]

I think the case you are talking about is a deaf mom lost custody of her kids and the foster parents and school wanted to implant the children. That case was wrong and those kids never got implanted. In that case you had parents of children with cochlear implants go to that court and tell the judge that they could not go that that they had to respect the mother's decision.

I don't see anything like that in this link: Newsflash and the 300+ emails to the judge weren't admissible however the Legal amicus curiae ("friend of the court") briefs filed by Deaf-rights and disability-rights advocacy groups were admissible. I don't think the letters send to the judge were admissible since there were no mention of the letters being submitted in the court.

Many deaf people and hearing people who side with Larsen show their support by attending the hearing and the rally as well.

 

[Cloggy]

.......... We need to expose the dangers and frauds behind CI to make parents to be more informed than being misinformed by hearing doctors, professionals who have zero clues about deaf community/culture. ........

Dangers ... frauds.... what would that be...

go on .... tell

 

[Drew's Dad]

I think if its ambigious that parents and kids should both help decide. Sort of like getting a new HA.

Those ambiguous cases would be really hard to decide what to do. Drew was totally profound in both ears due to the connexin gene, so we did not have to struggle as much with our decision. I always feel bad when others are somewhere on the borderline and they can't really be sure if the child will get enough out of their aids or not.

 

[Drew's Dad]

But nope hearings are scared that their time and money will go down in drain if kids with CI decide to ditch spoken language into favor of their natural language ASL. Pity.

What a joke. Like I'm crying myself to sleep each night worried my "time and money" will "go down the drain" if Drew later wants to sign. The time and money are the least of my concerns.

If 15 years down the road Drew decides to never put his CI's on again it won't make a bit of difference as far as how comfortable I am with my decision because he will have developed the tool of clear speech which he can use if he wants, when he wants.

If you really think that parents are worried about their time and money being wasted, I think you are truly misinformed.

 

[rick48]

I disagree with that view... I strongly believe that they can learn both. It has been done and I have seen it. ASL for conceptual understanding and academic access since it takes the children intensive training to learn how to use their CIs and speech for a skill to use with hearing people.

You can strongly disagree all you want. I too have see it done and seen it fail. I have seen oral only succeed and fail. I have seen virtually every choice succeed and fail. There is no one or best answer.

The bottomline is that it is the parent, and not you, who have the responsibility of raising their child.

Each child is unique and it is the parent's responsibility to choose what is best for their child.

Rick

 

[rick48]

If you just did that, I applaud you for it. Let's hope that they dont sudden have epiphany when they get into their teen years. It ain't pretty pictures for oral failure deaf children.

Jackie's kids are in their teens. What now, wait until they are adults? Then what, wait until they are senior citizens?

You say nothing new but spew the same tired and stale bogus rhetoric, kids like Jackie's are out there by the thousands proving you wrong on a daily basis.
Rick

 

[LadySekhmet]

Trust me - there are worst things than her not being able to hear computerized version of a bird singing.

How do you know it's "computerized" sound if you never had CI before? I was just activated a few weeks ago, and I can tell you that everything sounds normal to me. I realized that WHY people say it sounds "electronic, computerized" - which boggles me because how do they know it's electronic sounds if they never heard of it in the first place. The reason is because they're picking up on the higher frequencies. The majority of the CI users are sloping on their audiogram, and they cannot hear the high frequency sounds. The CI brings that back up to a normal "straight" line on their audiogram, so therefore, they're hearing the high frequency sounds at the same level as the low frequency sounds, so it sounds "strange". It doesn't. It sounds perfectly normal to me just like when I had my HAs...with being able to hear the high frequency. Take a look at my blog, and you'll see my audiogram before I had CI, and after I had CI. See, my CI audiogram is a straight line on the 10db (mind you, this is really unusual for a recent implanted CI user). Huge difference.

If you ask a hearing person who became deaf, and was implanted, he/she will say that it sounds normal.

Birds, rain, my cats meowing, water running, all sounds natural to me.

Besides, with the CI, I *will* be able to hear birds singing, and it will sound natural to me.

 

[vallee]

How do you know it's "computerized" sound if you never had CI before? I was just activated a few weeks ago, and I can tell you that everything sounds normal to me. I realized that WHY people say it sounds "electronic, computerized" - which boggles me because how do they know it's electronic sounds if they never heard of it in the first place. The reason is because they're picking up on the higher frequencies. The majority of the CI users are sloping on their audiogram, and they cannot hear the high frequency sounds. The CI brings that back up to a normal "straight" line on their audiogram, so therefore, they're hearing the high frequency sounds at the same level as the low frequency sounds, so it sounds "strange". It doesn't. It sounds perfectly normal to me just like when I had my HAs...with being able to hear the high frequency. Take a look at my blog, and you'll see my audiogram before I had CI, and after I had CI. See, my CI audiogram is a straight line on the 10db (mind you, this is really unusual for a recent implanted CI user). Huge difference.

If you ask a hearing person who became deaf, and was implanted, he/she will say that it sounds normal.

Birds, rain, my cats meowing, water running, all sounds natural to me.

Besides, with the CI, I *will* be able to hear birds singing, and it will sound natural to me.

ditto for me too,

See my blog as well to view my audiogram.

 

[shel90]

You can strongly disagree all you want. I too have see it done and seen it fail. I have seen oral only succeed and fail. I have seen virtually every choice succeed and fail. There is no one or best answer.

The bottomline is that it is the parent, and not you, who have the responsibility of raising their child.

Each child is unique and it is the parent's responsibility to choose what is best for their child.

Rick

I agree that it is the parents' responsibility to choose what's best for the child but what if the parent doesnt really know? Arent the schools supposed to be responsible to ensure that all children have equal access to academic content/language and nobody is put at an disadvantage. The thing with mainstreaming, the teachers or special ed teachers dont have instensive training on deafness so their idea of solving the problem is putting the child in front of the classroom. That is not an ideal seating arrangement for deaf children if everyone is all lined up in the back. Maybe your school was good but there are still countless of other schools where deaf children are not getting their visual needs met.

 

[jillio]

In case you haven't notices the only parents of children with CIs that stay on this board are the ones like me that are so secured in our decision that there is nothing you can say that would change our opinion. The parens that need you and your experiences people like you scared them away. Or then like Galaxy Angel they want us to leave because we believe in implants but this is called cochlear implants and hearing section the last time I checked.

Can you back that up with some facts? It could just as easily be that the parents of CI children leave because they get tired of being exposed to the nastiness of the oral only camp. BTW, there have been some deaf members leave due tothat very fact, and as this board was opened as a forum for Deaf/deaf to share their experiences and communicate with one another, I find that even more objectionable.

 

[jillio]

If you just did that, I applaud you for it. Let's hope that they dont sudden have epiphany when they get into their teen years. It ain't pretty pictures for oral failure deaf children.

That ephiphany often doesn't come until they leave home and are free to live their lives as deaf/Deaf individuals. If it comes as a teenager, the oral only parent fails to see it, because they look no deeper than a child's ears and mouth.

 

[shel90]

That ephiphany often doesn't come until they leave home and are free to live their lives as deaf/Deaf individuals. If it comes as a teenager, the oral only parent fails to see it, because they look no deeper than a child's ears and mouth.

That ephiphany came when I was 28 years old. As a teenager I was too depressed and too blinded by the shame of being deaf to recognize what was happening within me.

 

[jillio]

What a joke. Like I'm crying myself to sleep each night worried my "time and money" will "go down the drain" if Drew later wants to sign. The time and money are the least of my concerns.

If 15 years down the road Drew decides to never put his CI's on again it won't make a bit of difference as far as how comfortable I am with my decision because he will have developed the tool of clear speech which he can use if he wants, when he wants.

If you really think that parents are worried about their time and money being wasted, I think you are truly misinformed.

I understand completely where you are coming from, because I feel the same way in reverse about my son. If, he chooses to have CI surgery at any point in the future, I will support him as I have always supported him. The only difference is, he developed speech without the implantation, despite the fact that he is severe to profound bilaterally. He can use it if and when he wants. He also has fluent ASL skills that he can use if and when he wants. He has social support fromthe deaf community, and he has social support from the hearing community. And we were able to provide the foundation that allows for that simultaneously. It does not have to be an either/or proposition, or a do this now, do this later proposition.

 

[jillio]

I agree that it is the parents' responsibility to choose what's best for the child but what if the parent doesnt really know? Arent the schools supposed to be responsible to ensure that all children have equal access to academic content/language and nobody is put at an disadvantage. The thing with mainstreaming, the teachers or special ed teachers dont have instensive training on deafness so their idea of solving the problem is putting the child in front of the classroom. That is not an ideal seating arrangement for deaf children if everyone is all lined up in the back. Maybe your school was good but there are still countless of other schools where deaf children are not getting their visual needs met.

Bingo!

 

[rick48]

I agree that it is the parents' responsibility to choose what's best for the child but what if the parent doesnt really know? Arent the schools supposed to be responsible to ensure that all children have equal access to academic content/language and nobody is put at an disadvantage. The thing with mainstreaming, the teachers or special ed teachers dont have instensive training on deafness so their idea of solving the problem is putting the child in front of the classroom. That is not an ideal seating arrangement for deaf children if everyone is all lined up in the back. Maybe your school was good but there are still countless of other schools where deaf children are not getting their visual needs met.

We educated our school because they were willing to listen to us and work with us for the benefit of our child and thier student.

To sum up the mainstream experience as simply putting a child in the "front of the classroom" demonstrates either an extreme bias towards mainstreaming or a lack of knowledge about mainstreaming or both.

 

[shel90]

We educated our school because they were willing to listen to us and work with us for the benefit of our child and thier student.

To sum up the mainstream experience as simply putting a child in the "front of the classroom" demonstrates either an extreme bias towards mainstreaming or a lack of knowledge about mainstreaming or both.

That was how I and many of my friends were mainstreamed and in all the mainstreamed programs I have observed have done the same thing. I state what I observed.

 

[jillio]

Those ambiguous cases would be really hard to decide what to do. Drew was totally profound in both ears due to the connexin gene, so we did not have to struggle as much with our decision. I always feel bad when others are somewhere on the borderline and they can't really be sure if the child will get enough out of their aids or not.

Agreed. My son was severe to profound due to 8th cranial nerve damage. He received much more benefit from HA than it was ever predicted he would as an infant. But in those cases, it takes time. There are so many variables involved when it comes to benefit for both HA and CI. Trying to decide on an audiogram alone doesn't give a full picture.

 

[jillio]

That was how I and many of my friends were mainstreamed and in all the mainstreamed programs I have observed have done the same thing. I state what I observed.

I have observed same.

 

[doubletrouble]

That was how I and many of my friends were mainstreamed and in all the mainstreamed programs I have observed have done the same thing. I state what I observed.

Shel,

While you have personally experienced this, I have to tell you in our school district, it tis quite the opposite. My son has a TOD that pushes in- pulls out and his teacher is carefully selected by the TOD, myself, and his speech therapist.... The teacher every year) goes for training in the summetime and attends workshops throughtout the year. My son will be going to middle school in a year and a half. The middle school is arready sending the teachers and support staff to training, as well as hiring a deaf educator to come in and set up workshops and observe different teaching situations. They are to provide feedback and ways to make the learning enviroment for my son as easy as possible.

I also have a fantasic principal who will do anything to make sure that my son is set up for success. We had a new gym teacher come in, and she was giving him a hard time. As swiftly as we found out about it, the teacher was edcuated, the TOD came and observed the class, and now my son adores the teacher. Everyone in his school from the principal even down to the lunch ladies have gone for training.. I know that this is common in and around the school districts where I live... my niece and nephews are all mainstreamed in a neighboring district and their experiences in their home school district are the same.... At least here, things are changing, and just putting the Deaf kid in the front of the classroom is no longer acceptable.

 

[shel90]

Shel,

While you have personally experienced this, I have to tell you in our school district, it tis quite the opposite. My son has a TOD that pushes in- pulls out and his teacher is carefully selected by the TOD, myself, and his speech therapist.... The teacher every year) goes for training in the summetime and attends workshops throughtout the year. My son will be going to middle school in a year and a half. The middle school is arready sending the teachers and support staff to training, as well as hiring a deaf educator to come in and set up workshops and observe different teaching situations. They are to provide feedback and ways to make the learning enviroment for my son as easy as possible.

I also have a fantasic principal who will do anything to make sure that my son is set up for success. We had a new gym teacher come in, and she was giving him a hard time. As swiftly as we found out about it, the teacher was edcuated, the TOD came and observed the class, and now my son adores the teacher. Everyone in his school from the principal even down to the lunch ladies have gone for training.. I know that this is common in and around the school districts where I live... my niece and nephews are all mainstreamed in a neighboring district and their experiences in their home school district is the same.... At least here, things are changning, and just putting the Deaf kid in the font of the classroom is no longer acceptable.

I am glad that it is working for you.