When Freedom Gets the Death Sentence

[Reba]

More foreigners into Germany, and more native Germans leaving Germany.

"According to the Federal Office of Statistics, about 145,000 Germans emigrated in 2005, the highest number since just shortly after World War II.

...The statisticians in Wiesbaden also recorded changes in Germany's immigration levels for foreigners. Last year, 579,000 foreigners came to Germany...."
German Emigration Hits Highest Level in 55 Years | Germany | Deutsche Welle | 07.07.2006

 

[sr171soars]

...


Yes, part correct that it's about politics but they can't control the German law.

You are more foolish than I thought. German laws can be changed based on the majority rule. It is they (the majority) who vote in the legislature who change the laws. German laws are not immutable. They can be changed and they will be changed as they have changed over the years.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

German Population Plunge Expected
Children could become a rare sight in Germany

Germany's population will drop by as much as 12 million by 2050 due to low birth rates, according to an official forecast released Tuesday.

The German population will fall to between 69 and 74 million people in the next four decades, according to a study by the Federal Statistics Office. That would equal approximately 15 percent drop from the current population of 82.4 million.

With an average of 1.36 children per woman, Germany has one of the lowest birth rates in Europe and immigration cannot make up the shortfall. Not only are Germans not having children, but the population is also getting older and living longer. That would mean a 22 percent drop in the working population, according to the statistics office.

Fewer workers and more retirees would put the country's already strained welfare state under even more pressure...

What really worries demographers is a seemingly inevitable trend here towards a growing number of elderly people. Statisticians reckon that by 2050 the group of people past the age of 60 in Germany will be twice as high as those under 20. Boys who are born now will on average reach the biblical age of 83.5 years, with girls making it to 88. This will cause a strain on an already overburdened social system which some say will go bankrupt in just a few decades.

"I wouldn't like to use the word 'bankrupt' because it's a major challenge for the social insurance systems, that's for certain," Radermacher said. But the first thing is to reform the social security systems…We can learn from other countries… In every case, you need someone who has to work and give you some earnings."

The statistics office's projections are based on an annual influx of migrants of between 100,000 and 200,000 people. Many of them are expected to be Muslims. A small group of policymakers and scientists have been warning that by 2050 Germany might become a Muslim-dominated country. But Radermacher apparently thought little of ideologically-tinted theories....

German Population Plunge Expected | Germany | Deutsche Welle | 07.11.2006

I already explained in my post #50 that more muslims babies born here in Germany than German babies.

No, it doesn't mean that German law will become Islamic law because of Population.

Remember that the muslims are everywhere in the world, not just Germany...
Muslims in the West and around the world today

Islam in the USA, Canada and the Americas
Muslims in the West and around the world today

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Do Muslims living in Germany respect German culture and laws?

"German opposition conservatives are demanding a ban on preaching in mosques in any language other than German.

Calls for such a move were fuelled by a dramatic TV film secretly made last week in a Berlin mosque.

'These Germans, these atheists, these Europeans don't shave under their arms and their sweat collects under their hair with a revolting smell and they stink,' said the preacher at the Mevlana Mosque in Berlin's Kreuzberg district, in the film made by Germany's ZDF public TV, adding: 'Hell lives for the infidels! Down with all democracies and all democrats!'"
Expatica - Living in, moving to, or working in Germany, plus News in English

Who cares?

If anyone who talk bad things about other law/cultures then let them... Whatever they talk is their problem, not our.

I have many muslims friends who like to be German, not muslims... They are such lovely and open mind people. Perhaps you look only one side or bad side, not both side or good side.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

from: American Thinker: Why Europe Abandoned Israel

Population decline

The most up to date demographic forecasts project that every single European country will have a smaller population in the year 2050 than today with the possible exception of Ireland and France... Mark Steyn in his new book America Alone, argues that demography is destiny. He concludes, a bit hyperbolically, that Europeans are in the throes of a death spiral.

So Europe's population is aging and declining, and workers want to work less. This creates huge social issues. Who will do the work that Europeans increasingly do not want to do themselves (maid service, child care, working with the elderly, dishwashers)? Who will pay the taxes to support the social services which are skewed, as in the US, towards the elderly, a rapidly growing bloc?

... In the past 40 years, African and Asian immigrants (mainly Muslim in both cases) have come in to do the work Europeans do not want to do any more, and which Europeans so far can afford to pay others to do.

Rising Muslim population

But the immigrant groups have changed the social dynamic. Crime is way up in center cities. .. The new immigrants, especially the Muslim immigrants, have not mixed well with the native population. Entire immigrant communities have taken over sections in major cities, particularly in France, Britain, Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden and Belgium. ..

Current estimates are that at least 20 million Muslims now live in Western Europe. .. There are also 3 million Muslims in Germany (mainly Turks)...

One forecast I read suggests that France may be half Muslim by 2050 given continued immigration and the much higher birth rate for Muslims than other French... Middle East scholar Bernard Lewis put it more starkly: given the comparative birth rates (white Europeans very low, Muslims very high) and immigration levels, soon enough Europe will be Muslim, and the question will be answered. ...

This is American's opinion.

Anyway, what's about your country then?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Again, Muslims don't respect German culture and law.

from:
In Germany, Muslims grow apart
By Peter Schneider
The New York Times
DECEMBER 2, 2005
New York Times - Muslims destroying Germany

According to Seyran Ates, a lawyer of Turkish descent, "Before I can get to the Islamic patriarchs, I first have to work my way through these mountains of German guilt." ...It is women who suffer most from German sensitivity toward Islam. The three authors explicitly accuse German do-gooders of having left Muslim women in Germany in the lurch and call on them not to forget the women locked behind the closed windows when they rave about the multicultural districts. German immigration policies and liberal multiculturalism are only one side of the problem. The other side is the active refusal of many in the Muslim community to integrate.

"The attacks in London," Ates says, "were in the eyes of many Muslims a successful slap in the face to the Western community. The next perpetrators will be children of the third and fourth immigrant generation, who, under the eyes of well-meaning politicians, will be brought up from birth to hate Western society."

I can see from those posts that you took only one and bad side... Some of your posts here sound that you are racist because of skin color.

Anyway, do you mean that ALL Muslims?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

More foreigners into Germany, and more native Germans leaving Germany.

"According to the Federal Office of Statistics, about 145,000 Germans emigrated in 2005, the highest number since just shortly after World War II.

...The statisticians in Wiesbaden also recorded changes in Germany's immigration levels for foreigners. Last year, 579,000 foreigners came to Germany...."
German Emigration Hits Highest Level in 55 Years | Germany | Deutsche Welle | 07.07.2006

So? If they want to immigrate to anywhere then is their decision or their good reason. It's not because of Muslims, they have to move out from Germany. It's same with Americans as well... It's their decision or good reason to immigrate to other countries...

Look this link and read yourself everything in this link

Many Americans decide to emigrate and they apply for Canadian, Australian, New Zealand or any other citizenship. It is a very dangerous trend, because the influence of Bush and Nazism sympathizers continues to grow with every American leaving the US, which is caused by unbearable powerlessness and shame over their homeland.

Bush and ordinary Americans – Nazi methods are of little use against Nazism

It's not just Germany but everywhere in the world who want to immigrate to other countries... I immigrated to Germany from England, Opal immigrated from England to Australia, Cloggy immigrated from Holland to Norway, Liza immigrated from America to Norway, and going on.... Everyone have their decision what they do with their life etc. What's your problem then?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

You are more foolish than I thought. German laws can be changed based on the majority rule. It is they (the majority) who vote in the legislature who change the laws. German laws are not immutable. They can be changed and they will be changed as they have changed over the years.

Really?

New Rules for Muslims in German State Blasted
New Rules for Muslims in German State Blasted | Germany | Deutsche Welle | 05.01.2006

See?

It means that any Muslims who live here in Germany have to accept German's law, values, culture, etc. I have many open-minded Muslims here in Germany who like to be German...

You are more foolish than I thought.

Excuse me... who foolish? you said this yourself, not me...

I live here in Germany, not you...

 

[Reba]

I already explained in my post #50 that more muslims babies born here in Germany than German babies.

No, it doesn't mean that German law will become Islamic law because of Population.

Remember that the muslims are everywhere in the world, not just Germany...
Muslims in the West and around the world today

Islam in the USA, Canada and the Americas
Muslims in the West and around the world today

Yes, and if the Muslims become a voting majority in the USA, they will try to change our laws, too. It can happen in any country, including Germany and the USA, if the trend continues.

There is one difference between our countries. People of various nationalities, religions, and cultures are more likely to become "Americanized" and blend in with American culture and beliefs. People that immigrate to Germany don't tend to blend in as well. They don't easily become German citizens. Americans expect immigrants to become Americans. Do Germans expect immigrants to become Germans?

 

[Reba]

Who cares?

If anyone who talk bad things about other law/cultures then let them... Whatever they talk is their problem, not our.

I have many muslims friends who like to be German, not muslims... They are such lovely and open mind people. Perhaps you look only one side or bad side, not both side or good side.

It's not just "talk". They want to destroy your way of government.

 

[Reba]

This is American's opinion.

Anyway, what's about your country then?

The population statistics and trends are facts, not opinion. The information is from the German and EU governments.

We don't have a socialist government so our economy doesn't function the same way.

The influx of illegal Hispanic aliens is our problem, and that's why we're trying to stop it. We recognize that there is a problem, and we're trying to do something about it.

Do you recognize the problem in Germany? Or do you deny it?

 

[Reba]

I can see from those posts that you took only one and bad side... Some of your posts here sound that you are racist because of skin color.

Anyway, do you mean that ALL Muslims?

Of course, it's not ALL Muslims. But it's enough Muslims to cause a problem.

I'm posting this again because obviously you didn't read it:

from:
In Germany, Muslims grow apart
By Peter Schneider
The New York Times
DECEMBER 2, 2005
New York Times - Muslims destroying Germany

According to Seyran Ates, a lawyer of Turkish descent, "Before I can get to the Islamic patriarchs, I first have to work my way through these mountains of German guilt." ...It is women who suffer most from German sensitivity toward Islam. The three authors explicitly accuse German do-gooders of having left Muslim women in Germany in the lurch and call on them not to forget the women locked behind the closed windows when they rave about the multicultural districts. German immigration policies and liberal multiculturalism are only one side of the problem. The other side is the active refusal of many in the Muslim community to integrate.

"The attacks in London," Ates says, "were in the eyes of many Muslims a successful slap in the face to the Western community. The next perpetrators will be children of the third and fourth immigrant generation, who, under the eyes of well-meaning politicians, will be brought up from birth to hate Western society."

It has nothing to do with color. If you knew me personally, you wouldn't say such an off-base comment.

The person quoted is a Muslim who lives in Germany. She's talking specifically about the relationship between Muslims and Germans.

 

[Reba]

Bush and ordinary Americans – Nazi methods are of little use against Nazism

So non-Americans are afraid of American political influence? What does that have to do with the effect of immigration, emigration, and aging work force on the economy of Germany? The number of Americans leaving the USA doesn't effect our work force or social programs in the same way.

It's not just Germany but everywhere in the world who want to immigrate to other countries... What's your problem then?

I have nothing against people moving to other countries. Nothing at all. I'm just showing how immigration patterns do affect economies. Your own German government recognizes that it's a problem.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Yes, and if the Muslims become a voting majority in the USA, they will try to change our laws, too. It can happen in any country, including Germany and the USA, if the trend continues.

Sure, Muslims try to change our laws but it doesn´t work because our governments know their limit.

There is one difference between our countries. People of various nationalities, religions, and cultures are more likely to become "Americanized" and blend in with American culture and beliefs. People that immigrate to Germany don't tend to blend in as well. They don't easily become German citizens. Americans expect immigrants to become Americans. Do Germans expect immigrants to become Germans?

Depend on German government´s limit on immigrants for want to become Germans. Check the example of my link on my response post to sr171soars.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

It's not just "talk". They want to destroy your way of government.

To us, that´s nonsense talk... Why should we including government take their talk serious... ?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

The population statistics and trends are facts, not opinion. The information is from the German and EU governments.

We don't have a socialist government so our economy doesn't function the same way.

The influx of illegal Hispanic aliens is our problem, and that's why we're trying to stop it. We recognize that there is a problem, and we're trying to do something about it.

Do you recognize the problem in Germany? Or do you deny it?

Yes I´m not deny that I recognize the problem in Germany is high unemployment rate and taxes.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

So non-Americans are afraid of American political influence? What does that have to do with the effect of immigration, emigration, and aging work force on the economy of Germany? .

Where have it says in link "non-Americans"?

Many Americans decide to emigrate and they apply for Canadian, Australian, New Zealand or any other citizenship. It is a very dangerous trend, because the influence of Bush and Nazism sympathizers continues to grow with every American leaving the US, which is caused by unbearable powerlessness and shame over their homeland.

The number of Americans leaving the USA doesn't effect our work force or social programs in the same way

It sound that your government don´t care about their people either they are here or there and doesn´t bother to improve their country...?

I have nothing against people moving to other countries. Nothing at all. I'm just showing how immigration patterns do affect economies. Your own German government recognizes that it's a problem.

If German government recognizes the problem then reduce taxes and high unemployment rate. It´s same with your country as well.

 

[Reba]

To us, that´s nonsense talk... Why should we including government take their talk serious... ?

I wish our government had taken "nonsense talk" by Muslims seriously before 9/11.

I guess Germany will have to learn the hard way, too.

 

[Reba]

Where have it says in link "non-Americans"?

Many Americans decide to emigrate and they apply for Canadian, Australian, New Zealand or any other citizenship. It is a very dangerous trend, because the influence of Bush and Nazism sympathizers continues to grow with every American leaving the US, which is caused by unbearable powerlessness and shame over their homeland.

"Canadian, Austalian, New Zealand" are "non-Americans" (as in non-USA Americans).

If German government recognizes the problem then reduce taxes and high unemployment rate. It´s same with your country as well.

No, it's not the same.

The USA does have a Social Security problem, and it's getting worse. However, the USA is not yet a socialist state, so we're not as dependent on government support for people as the Germans are.

I know that you appreciate scientific "facts", so here they are:

The USA unemployment rate (4.80) is much lower (better) than Germany's (7.10).

Also, our people are younger (median age 36.5 years) than Germany's (median age 42.6 years), which influences the worker/retiree ratio.

Also influencing the worker/retiree ratio:

USA
Population growth rate: 0.91%
Birth rate: 14.14 births/1,000 population
65 years and over: 12.5%

Germany
population growth rate: -0.02%
Birth rate: 8.25 births/1,000 population
65 years and over: 19.4%

 

[Reba]

It sound that your government don´t care about their people either they are here or there and doesn´t bother to improve their country...?

Our people don't like to be dependent on the government. We prefer independence, free enterprise, and individual choice.

Sadly, too many Americans are beginning to desire the European socialist ways, and want to increase government control. Americans are losing their independent pioneer spirit.