When expecting a child, would you want it to be deaf?

deafdyke said:
In some cases it is ignorance, but in other cases, it's b/c the parents wanted a designer "perfect" baby. I was AIMing with a friend of mine, who posts here sometimes and she said she was really turned off by the hoh support.She said that ALL the parents were whining that they just wanted a normal healthy baby. It's funny thou. There are folks out there who think "OH COOL! My child gets to learn ASL and all about Deaf culture" Then there's the parents who don't want to learn Sign b/c of the stigma of it being special needs. (and I really think that the majority of those parents are still majoraly psychologically messed up about their child's difference)
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I think that last remark is way out of line. How would you feel if I would say the same about people being deaf? Try to read some of the reactions in this thread with a "hearing" viewpoint.
 
^Angel^ said:
What about Helen Keller? She was born with full sight and hearing until she fell ill when she was nineteen months old which left her both blind and deaf and her parents didn't think Helen will ever have a good furture, but her parents were wrong , Helen Keller became a role model for millions of people, Thanks to her teacher Anne Sullivan who taught Helen finger spelling sign language, and struggling to try and control Helen’s bad behaviour and she did not give up hope and never once left her side, Helen had a great life, I dunno what would have happened if she had no help with someone who understood what is like to be in her position and for who she was.....


It would be much easier if someone has walked a miles in a person's shoes then they would understand what it like to be that child instead of just looking at them feeling there's no hope or furture, but they're wrong....
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How many other deaf/blind persons do you know... there were a lot of them.......
Apart from her being very intelligent, she also had parents that could afford a fulltime companion. That's a very lucky combination.
 
^Angel^ said:
What about Helen Keller? She was born with full sight and hearing until she fell ill when she was nineteen months old which left her both blind and deaf and her parents didn't think Helen will ever have a good furture, but her parents were wrong , Helen Keller became a role model for millions of people, Thanks to her teacher Anne Sullivan who taught Helen finger spelling sign language, and struggling to try and control Helen’s bad behaviour and she did not give up hope and never once left her side, Helen had a great life, I dunno what would have happened if she had no help with someone who understood what is like to be in her position and for who she was.....


It would be much easier if someone has walked a miles in a person's shoes then they would understand what it like to be that child instead of just looking at them feeling there's no hope or furture, but they're wrong....
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She's pretty cool. :)

Don't agree with all of her politics (very socialist, am I correct?), but she definitely had the writing gift. To me, it's even more impressive because of the fact that she got that exposure to sign language a bit later than most kids get their first in-depth exposure to language.
 
I don't feel comforable with expecting something from a child when it comes to this subject. It think it would make it awful for them if they did not meet our expectations. I learned that lesson from my very nice parents ;)... I openly embrace my future children, be they deaf, blind, polka dotted, and.. *gasp*.. hearing.... etc. :)
 
Liza said:
I don't feel comforable with expecting something from a child when it comes to this subject. It think it would make it awful for them if they did not meet our expectations. I learned that lesson from my very nice parents ;)... I openly embrace my future children, be they deaf, blind, polka dotted, and.. *gasp*.. hearing.... etc. :)
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How about the expectation of the child at later age. Could be it will expect you to take have taken decisions that cannot be taken anymore....
No matter what you choose for your child, it will be the right choice. When the child is 15 years old, it's very likely that any decision taken by the parents, then or previously, is wrong.
 
gnulinuxman said:
OK, genius, then explain why most hearing parents think having a deaf kid is one of the hardest blows in their life, and many want to "fix" that before they can fully accept the kid? Again, I don't think Deaf Culture is anything to be ashamed of, and I'm quite proud of being part of it.
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I think you should back off from Cloggy a bit there, he's just speaking from what he knows. I'm not a parent but my friend had a baby a few months ago and i know understand on some level how hard ANY thing but 'healthy' can be upsetting to a parent. It's true parents expect healthy children and it's upsetting when urs is born with a problem. But you learn to adapt and they become more healthy than u could have ever imagined.
 
Cloggy said:
When someone decides for CI and expects that (s)he will be hearing without any work - that's wrong.
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This is assuming of course that the person decides for CI and expects to hear without any work. I doubt that anyone expects this.

I realized after I made my assumption in my husband's case that I shouldn't have made the assumption at all, especially when someone is going to pick up on that and make the statement that you did. My knowledge about CIs is very limited and I only have the experiences of people on this forum to compare his experience with.

His doctor warned him that the CI may not work for him because of his age and because of the calcium buildup inside his ear. I am also aware of the fact that this is an electronic device and the device implanted in his ear may not be as effective as the devices that people on this forum are using. (His is MedEl. Maybe someone can tell me if MedEl is less effective than other brands.) There are other factors, such as the type of support he received after he was implanted. It did not appear to me that he received much support.

My assumption is not that he did not work at it hard enough, period. I assume that because the device simply was not working effectively, he decided being deaf was better than working with something that would never work properly. That is logical to me.

Again this is assumption on my part because I cannot know what went on inside his head when he used the CI. I do know that he never thought he would hear without doing any work because the doctor and audiologist made that very clear to him. I imagine this is made clear to anyone who receives an implant, especially when it is received at a later age.

By the way, I have no problem with your decision to have your child implanted at an early age. This is a decision that a parent has a right to make based on what you feel is best for the child who is under YOUR care. This is logical to me as well. It took me a long time to understand that my parents wanted the best for me, even if they did do it in a lousy way. Most children have an amazing ability to become adults and do what is best for themselves in spite of their parents.
 
jshumko said:
This is assuming of course that the person decides for CI and expects to hear without any work. I doubt that anyone expects this.

I realized after I made my assumption in my husband's case that I shouldn't .........
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I wasn't referring to your husbands case, sorry if I gave you that impression.

I was talking about some cases I have read about where the expectations were not realistic. It's not a cure, it needs work.
I read about people that gave up really fast without bothering about mapping, persistence, followup. It's a shame if this happens.
 
Cloggy said:
I read about people that gave up really fast without bothering about mapping, persistence, followup. It's a shame if this happens.
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I'm not sure if it is a shame. Try to imagine yourself as a deaf person who has been living in silence for many years, perhaps all of your life. Many people who can hear tell you how wonderful it is to hear, and you learn about this wonderful device that will help you to have this wonderful thing in your life called "hearing". You get the implant, they snap the magnet on your head, and all of a sudden your peaceful world of silence is shattered with sound. I can imagine how some people would rather have their peaceful world back in short order. Their can be many other reasons why a person would give up on it quickly and all of those reasons could be valid for them.

I have not read many stories about people's experiences with CIs. I am reminded though of one that my sister told me about a lady she use to know at church who received a CI when she was around 30 years old. Not too long after the device was activated, she got up one morning, put on her receiver, and turned it on. She exclaimed to her husband, "What is that horrible noise?" It was rain.

I love the sound of rain, but it was horrible to her. (Her CI was a Med-El also. I don't know if that means anything.)
 
jshumko said:
I'm not sure if it is a shame. Try to imagine yourself as a deaf person who has been living in silence for many years, perhaps all of your life. Many people who can hear tell you how wonderful it is to hear, and you learn about this wonderful device that will help you to have this wonderful thing in your life called "hearing". You get the implant, they snap the magnet on your head, and all of a sudden your peaceful world of silence is shattered with sound. I can imagine how some people would rather have their peaceful world back in short order. Their can be many other reasons why a person would give up on it quickly and all of those reasons could be valid for them.

I have not read many stories about people's experiences with CIs. I am reminded though of one that my sister told me about a lady she use to know at church who received a CI when she was around 30 years old. Not too long after the device was activated, she got up one morning, put on her receiver, and turned it on. She exclaimed to her husband, "What is that horrible noise?" It was rain.

I love the sound of rain, but it was horrible to her. (Her CI was a Med-El also. I don't know if that means anything.)
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Excellent example. What I have learned is that "mapping" is very important. One type of mapping can be great, another on can be horrible. (Type of CI wouldn't matter.) I've red a couple of stories from people that were in clinical tries and HAD to use mappings they did not like.
But every case is special, and what I meant by my initial remark is that when decisions are taken for the wrong reasons, based on false information, then that's really bad.
Therefore people should have the possibility to obtain correst info, and I believe this messageboard is one of these places. But it needs work from everyone.
 
Cloggy said:
Therefore people should have the possibility to obtain correst info, and I believe this messageboard is one of these places.
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I'm wondering how information received on a message board is better than information received from one's doctor, or even better, the information one receives from his/her own head and heart. I participate on a religious forum and have the same question when someone believes everything they read on the internet.
 
jshumko said:
I'm wondering how information received on a message board is better than information received from one's doctor, or even better, the information one receives from his/her own head and heart. I participate on a religious forum and have the same question when someone believes everything they read on the internet.
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Because a doctor doesn't live with [foo] every day, where [foo] is any medical condition. So while they may be supremely qualified to say, here are the risks of CI surgery; here's what you can expect in terms of regaining your hearing, they are *not* so well qualified to say, here's how this will impact your life.
 
jshumko said:
I'm wondering how information received on a message board is better than information received from one's doctor, or even better, the information one receives from his/her own head and heart. I participate on a religious forum and have the same question when someone believes everything they read on the internet.
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Good point but life experiences of others can be a great guide. As Ismi mentioned later (below), the doctor is an expert in the business of whether a CI could work (not necessarily that it will work - it is not an exact science yet). They don't always get into all the ins and outs of what it takes to really make it work (they try but that is not their specialty). Here is where the Audiologist comes into play and they are more the "coaches" to assist you to make it work for you. Some are great, some very good, some so-so, and the rest. Still, the bottom-line is the desire of the person with the CI to make it work. This doesn't mean it will always work just because a person wants it to be so. The trouble I see and it has been hinted at in earlier posts that some give up without really trying. I was one of those that took off quickly with it as it worked pretty much right off the start. It could have been alot tougher and I was determined to make it work no matter what.


ismi said:
Because a doctor doesn't live with [foo] every day, where [foo] is any medical condition. So while they may be supremely qualified to say, here are the risks of CI surgery; here's what you can expect in terms of regaining your hearing, they are *not* so well qualified to say, here's how this will impact your life.
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To a point, I can see what you are saying. Still, they see many patients over time and they get a good idea what is going on out there. In other words, they get feedback which helps them out.
 
Cloggy, I still stand behind what I said. Here in the US, a lot of parents are very much devastated by the fact that their child is "different"
(and we're talking a VERY superfical "difference") Like I can undy how parents would be devastated at the news that their kid would have extreme disabilites, like profound mental retardation or things like autisim (which BTW IS disabling even in its mild forms) But the thing is......kids with physcial differences (ie hearing, sight, and mobilty issues) are mentally and spiritually the SAME as kids without those differences. There are some parents who realize this.....but a lot of hearing and nondisabled parents just have this enourmous hang up....like they think that kids with disabilites are globally unable. It's a lot more complicated. Their disabilty is not an inabilty, and parents need to realize that. Maybe then the parents who are still so obessed with the fact that their child is "different" and needs stuff that the Regualr Average Kid doesn't.
 
sr171soars said:
The trouble I see and it has been hinted at in earlier posts that some give up without really trying.
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Without knowing exactly what a person went through, what went on inside the person's head, and what other factors contributed to the person "giving up", I have difficulty viewing it as a problem.

I also probably have difficulty feeling sorry for people who cannot hear or who do not want to hear because my hearing is too good. Certainly I wouldn't want to lose it entirely, but it hasn't been all fun and games, that's for sure. I heard too much growing up. As an adult, I moved 20 times within 15 years while living in apartments because I couldn't find a peaceful place to live. I could hear people talking next door through the walls, not to mention loud stereos, parties, etc. Ear plugs helped a little.

I use to work in a cubicle next to a boss (who sat in his own office) who swore all the time. The cubicle wall and his office wall didn't muffle his rantings (or the rantings of people across the room, for that matter.) He was funny though. He'd swear and then say, "Sorry Julia!". This happened after almost every sentence. I could go on and on with many stories of times I wished I was deaf.

Deafness can be a curse or a blessing. Hearing can be a curse or a blessing. I simply am unable to view either condition as better than the other.
 
Agreed....I like being deaf....if I wasn't deaf I couldn't turn my hearing aids off on people (something I have been NOTORIOUS for doing!)
 
Sorry Deafdyke, can you say that again? This gosh danged device thingmajig was off.
 
Rose Immortal said:
She's pretty cool. :)

Don't agree with all of her politics (very socialist, am I correct?), but she definitely had the writing gift. To me, it's even more impressive because of the fact that she got that exposure to sign language a bit later than most kids get their first in-depth exposure to language.
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Smart. I think you're one of the few people I've met who actually knew Keller's politics. She even described most socialists as "to her right." She stated that she championed the socialist cause because she believed it granted equality to all people, including those with disabilities.

I wonder how much her politics were influenced by her experiences with only three senses.
 
deafdyke said:
Cloggy, I still stand behind what I said.
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It was the choice of words I reacted to, not the message.
Here in the US, a lot of parents are very much devastated by the fact that their child is "different"
(and we're talking a VERY superfical "difference") ........
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Now that is an understatement. Hearing or not hearing is not a superficial difference. Ask any grownup who lost his/hers hearing, or have a look at people that regained hearing.
Hearing is huge. It doesn't mean that you cannot function without hearing; of course you can, but it's wrong to denigrade the sense of hearing.

Sometimes it's OK to miss something as long as you have no idea about what you are missing. Same the other way around, until you loose your sense of hearing, you have no idea how important it was (to you).

Both sides have to be carefull with their assumptions, and rather ask before assuming.
 
jshumko said:
Without knowing exactly what a person went through, what went on inside the person's head, and what other factors contributed to the person "giving up", I have difficulty viewing it as a problem.

...
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I agree but knowing human nature and how it applies to all people regardless of their situation. I know some people just plain give up and then blame everybody or everything around them. That is what I was talking about being a problem. It has nothing to do with being deaf but being human. People tend to take the easy way out. As an analogy, I think of all the diet fads over the years and the only thing that really works, is diet, exercising, and common sense. In other words, people have to work at it.
 
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