When are we allowed to let Hearing people join our culture and all.

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Rose Immortal said:
To those of you in this thread:

What is it, if one discriminates against a hearing person simply because of how he or she was born, without even knowing the person or giving them a chance? Is it wrong and if so, why or why not? And, I defy everyone here to explain the events described in this thread: http://www.alldeaf.com/showthread.php?t=29416
In my opinion, its wrong to discriminate against someone without at least giving them the benifit of the doubt. You have to at least get to know someone before you can form an opinion of that person. Just as you would expect the same in return. As far as explaining the events in the thread you reference, it could be ignorance or fear. It could also be discrimination. You have to know what motivates a person to act this way before you can form an opinion. I think that in any case, education and awareness would reduce some of this behavior. You can never totally eliminate it but you help reduce it with education and awareness.
 
What is it, if one discriminates against a hearing person simply because of how he or she was born, without even knowing the person or giving them a chance?

Is it wrong and if so, why or why not?

Some of the nicest people I know can hear............... :naughty:
 
Rose Immortal said:
What is it, if one discriminates against a hearing person simply because of how he or she was born, without even knowing the person or giving them a chance?

What is "audism", Alex?

Rose Immortal said:
Is it wrong and if so, why or why not?

Yes, it is wrong. For all the same reasons that it is wrong to discriminate against people for the circumstances of their birth in other ways - deafness being one.
 
Sweetmind said:
I would like to know what is so wrong about wanting your child to speak??? Is it such a bad thing to want want your child to be independent, to socialize with others and not have depend on an interpreter at all times? I'm not against sign at all, i'm for total communication. If your child was born blind and there was a surgery to help his sight, don't tell me that you would not consider the option. And as for waiting for a child until he is older to get an implant, the benefits are not nearly as effective as under the age of 3. I see the difference it makes in kids when i take my daughter to her av classes. If wanting my daughter to be independent and making sure that she has total communication when she gets older, then by all means you can call me a selfish parent.
 
kayla123 said:
I would like to know what is so wrong about wanting your child to speak??? Is it such a bad thing to want want your child to be independent, to socialize with others and not have depend on an interpreter at all times? I'm not against sign at all, i'm for total communication. If your child was born blind and there was a surgery to help his sight, don't tell me that you would not consider the option. And as for waiting for a child until he is older to get an implant, the benefits are not nearly as effective as under the age of 3. I see the difference it makes in kids when i take my daughter to her av classes. If wanting my daughter to be independent and making sure that she has total communication when she gets older, then by all means you can call me a selfish parent.


I'm a selfish parent too, I consider giving as many options as my child can manage to learn, I guess that dumps my 'Deaf' credentials in some quarters ! I'd worry about it, but these anti-people are going nowhere are they ? perhaps THAT is the real issue, envy ? In a world where an extra decibel or skill can make all the difference, activists in the cultural world, seem to want that to stop. (No doubt so THEY can continue calling the shots). I'm a total believer in freedom of choice and speech, but these activists are abusing it, and other deaf people, usingthe one thing nobody should to hammer home a point, FEAR. Has Gallaudet spoilt things for the freedom-loving deaf ? Perhaps a deaf Uni isn't such a good idea after all, it puts activists and disaffected all in one place, then empowers them to do as they like. Perhaps a major PLUS for mainstreaming.
 
deaflinuxgeek said:
I know alot of deaf people dont always enjoy hearing people entering our culture and our world. I feel like some hearing people shouldn't be allowed in our world at all. I am not trying to be rude here at all to interpreters, but you know there are people who just join our world and use it like its a fair ground rather than a serious place and a place to have a good time, but not always for fun. My fiance, Dan(Gnulinuxman) is accepted in because he doesnt look at our world and use it for fun or anything bad. I think we need to accept people like him into our world, but there are others that are very nosy and try to get you to let them in our world.

Dan who is Gnulinuxman is really a great person to have here in the Deaf world and culture, I think we should say to this wonderful man, Dan Brodzik. WELCOME TO THE DEAF CULTURE AND WORLD 100% DAN BRODZIK!!!! :hug: :deaf: :applause: :wave: :welcome: :cool:

If you dont agree here in my post then please dont reply at all. Thanks!!!

Kimana (Deaflinuxgeek) :angel:


i am always a little worried about that. i go to a mostly deaf church. i'm not fluent in ASL, so everytime i go there, it is a learning experience. i am afraid that the youth at the church will not accept me because maybe they think i'm only using them to learn a cool language or something. when the truth is that i DO want to learn ASL, and i feel that i need to... but because it's part of Deaf culture, and i love Deaf culture, and i love the church and the awesome people. i know i get the impression that my hearing friends that go with me are only using them when the only conversation with the deaf at the church is "how do you sign ________?". i am fairly sure they're only asking so they can learn and will be able to have more meaningful conversations later, but sometimes it seems that way... and it's always in the back of my mind that i'll not be accepted because of that...
 
Murasaki said:
i am always a little worried about that. i go to a mostly deaf church. i'm not fluent in ASL, so everytime i go there, it is a learning experience. i am afraid that the youth at the church will not accept me because maybe they think i'm only using them to learn a cool language or something. when the truth is that i DO want to learn ASL, and i feel that i need to... but because it's part of Deaf culture, and i love Deaf culture, and i love the church and the awesome people. i know i get the impression that my hearing friends that go with me are only using them when the only conversation with the deaf at the church is "how do you sign ________?". i am fairly sure they're only asking so they can learn and will be able to have more meaningful conversations later, but sometimes it seems that way... and it's always in the back of my mind that i'll not be accepted because of that...
Don't be worried. I was too but found that most culturally Deaf people are very happy when they found out my fiancee was teaching me to sign. Some oralists got mad, and a couple of girls were disappointed that I was hearing (I think they wanted romance or something...) but this probably won't happen to you in church. Most of the attitudes problems I had actually came from other hearing people. Go figure...
 
Since the majority of some hearing people haven't had the opportunity to interact with Deaf people, have no knowledge how to communicate with Deaf people, nor don't have any knowledge of the Deaf Culture, does it make them stuck up? Of course not.

I'm all for welcoming anyone into the Deaf Community, If they are interested in learning about the Deaf Culture and learn how to communicate with many of those who cannot lip-read at all. I think exchanging written notes is just a waste of time, to be honest, I've seen a deaf person who cannot lip-read at all, and she spend a half hour written notes back and forth with the waitress just to order food at the restaurants. I feel like getting up and sign for her, but I wasn't sure if she wanted my help or not. It makes me feel bad for her in some way. It's not her fault that she was raise this way, but it'll be nice if the majority of hearing people had the opportunity to learn signs, it doesn't have to be requirement, but it would have been a lot easier and more comfortable for those who cannot lip-read or ever learn spoken language at all.

But, to be honest I don't like how hearing people felt under attack by some deaf people who make them feel guilty of not wanting to learn ASL, I don't believe that they don't want to learn, I believe that they don't have no knowledge of the Deaf Culture. Could be that some never experienced interact with Deaf people before. I believe in time. It's never too late. I think we (deaf people) should give them all a chance, because itl'll be a possible positive move between the Deaf and Hearing worlds when they find acceptance with each others and be in one world together. ;)
 
Thank you Cheri!!! I for one appreciate your willingness to accept and be patient with us hearing folks. :ty::ty:
 
rockdrummer said:
Thank you Cheri!!! I for one appreciate your willingness to accept and be patient with us hearing folks. :ty::ty:


Aw, You don't need to thanked me. :Oops: But, You're more than welcome thou. :ily: I was honest what I said in my first post. I hate all the bitters between the deaf and hearing. I hope and pray that all of that would end just in a matter of time. ;)
 
Cheri, yours is one of the few posts I've seen that really tries to look at both sides and understand why both groups feel the way they do. I appreciate that a lot. :)

I saw a saying in someone signature in a forum that said, "Ignorance can be cured. Stupidity can't." And I think that more often than not, a strange reaction is just ignorance, and a polite, compassionate explanation of what they did wrong and what to do in the future works wonders.
 
kayla123 said:
I would like to know what is so wrong about wanting your child to speak??? Is it such a bad thing to want want your child to be independent, to socialize with others and not have depend on an interpreter at all times? I'm not against sign at all, i'm for total communication. If your child was born blind and there was a surgery to help his sight, don't tell me that you would not consider the option. And as for waiting for a child until he is older to get an implant, the benefits are not nearly as effective as under the age of 3. I see the difference it makes in kids when i take my daughter to her av classes. If wanting my daughter to be independent and making sure that she has total communication when she gets older, then by all means you can call me a selfish parent.

Blind is not the same as deaf. There is no Blind culture, but there is a Deaf culture. That's because for a culture to exist, there must be a separate language, and traditions and norms and beliefs that are passed from generation to generation through that language. Deaf passes culture to other Deaf through ASL.

I am also hearing parent of Deaf child. My son does not have CI, and refuses to wear aids at all. He has always said that the noise confuses what he sees!
He prefers ASL, but will use signed English when talking with people who know some signs, but not ASL. He also has speech reading, and has some verbal skills. He is able to communicate very effectively and independantly.

I believe that he is independant because from the very first moment I knew he was deaf, I took him to other deaf ppl and said show me what he needs. I listened to their advise more that the advise of the hearing experts that kept telling me "No sign", "Make him wear his aids" "Make his use his voice". They were giving me an unhappy, frustrated child with no communication skills. What the Deaf community taught me and my child gave me a happy, well adjusted, outgoing son who is confident of himself. They gave me the child he was meant to be.

I am now, and will always be grateful to the Deaf community. They showed me what to do for my child and made be a better parent than I ever could have been. They are my son's family, just as I am his family. They taught me to understand what my son faced, and what he was going through, because they had been there before. No hearing expert, no CI, no hearing aids, no speech therapy could have done that. It took a community of caring, proud people who opened their hearts to a small deaf boy, and a nasty hearie mom who was confused. They took my deaf son and made him a Deaf man. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
 
jillio said:
There is no Blind culture, but there is a Deaf culture. That's because for a culture to exist, there must be a separate language, and traditions and norms and beliefs that are passed from generation to generation through that language.

There is a blind culture, and culture doesn't require a separate language (unless you think that British and American society are identical ...).
 
Jillio, beautiful story! You have done a wonderful job raising your son. The Deaf Culture is very friendly to those who don't come in with high-and-mighty "I'm better because I can speak! Why should I sign?" attitudes. I learned that when I asked my fiancee to teach me to sign. She introduced me to this wonderful culture and I thank her for doing so. :)
 
Passivist said:
Some of the nicest people I know can hear............... :naughty:
Some of the nicest people I know are deaf. Some of the nicest people I know are hearing. Should it matter? I don't think so. It's all about attitudes and personalities.
 
kayla123 said:
I would like to know what is so wrong about wanting your child to speak??? Is it such a bad thing to want want your child to be independent, to socialize with others and not have depend on an interpreter at all times? I'm not against sign at all, i'm for total communication. If your child was born blind and there was a surgery to help his sight, don't tell me that you would not consider the option. And as for waiting for a child until he is older to get an implant, the benefits are not nearly as effective as under the age of 3. I see the difference it makes in kids when i take my daughter to her av classes. If wanting my daughter to be independent and making sure that she has total communication when she gets older, then by all means you can call me a selfish parent.
No it isn't wrong to want a deaf child to speak. It's human nature. But I do believe it is wrong to force a deaf child to speak. "Total communication" doesn't mean oral speech only.

Communication isn't just moving the mouth and making sounds. It is sharing ideas. There are multiple ways to do it, and the best way(s) varies from person to person. Some deaf people do prefer oral speech. But it isn't the only way. What's wrong with trying ASL and speech, and seeing which one(s) the kid wants to use? Why not raise a kid to be both ways? Speech isn't the only way, nor is it always the best way. As jillio mentioned, her son had a very hard time until she started signing with him. Then his language development accelerated, and she said he can lipread and speak some too.
 
gnulinuxman said:
Some of the nicest people I know are deaf. Some of the nicest people I know are hearing. Should it matter? I don't think so. It's all about attitudes and personalities.



Obviously we are referring with Irony, against the boring rants of those deaf who let's face it, don't want to know hearing people. The anti-orals, the sign-only, the members of that exclusive 'D' sector... If they looked they would see what we do, a group of pretty isolated people who appear to prefer it.
 
Passivist said:
Obviously we are referring with Irony, against the boring rants of those deaf who let's face it, don't want to know hearing people. The anti-orals, the sign-only, the members of that exclusive 'D' sector... If they looked they would see what we do, a group of pretty isolated people who appear to prefer it.
If you honestly believe that's all Deaf Culture is about, you need to get out more.
 
Gnu, what makes you think i force my daughter to speak??? I am a mother who made the best choice for MY daughter. Obviously i made the right choice for her because she loves talking and singing and listening to music. If it bothered her to hear and she she decided to not use the implant anymore ,then it would be her choice. At least i know i did what i had to do to make things easier for her later in life. I'm not saying all deaf people are dependent on others but i dont want my daughter to have to rely on interpreters and such. Obviously a CI or HA is not for everybody but you need to stop bashing people who actually have success stories. You only seem to put your 2 cents in when ripping on a parent who's child is succeeding with a CI. I don't even know why i bother with you anyways. Talk to me when you grow up and have a child of you own.
 
gnulinuxman said:
If you honestly believe that's all Deaf Culture is about, you need to get out more.


Not all deaf people obviously, but all groups have their loony fringes. The issue is this particular fringe group does all the deaf talking.
 
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