use of device in children or not

SxyPorkie said:
You made me laughing.....Are you scared of Vollcomskatz???
:hyper: :rofl: :rofl:

SxyPorkie
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Cloggy must be so sick :ugh:
 
Liebling:-))) said:
Yes I'm with you to this. I would wear my babies with HA straight way first until they are old enough to have their choice.
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I'm with Liebling on this one also, CI is a choice, And parents think that CI is the only way out of the "what if" problems in the nearest future. They don't realized that deaf children [I[can[/I] be able to speak of a certain number of words just like hearing children at least to the age of one, I've seen some parents went ahead implanting their children at a very young age, just because a child cannot speak yet. Come on since when a child speak at 4/6 months? Maybe some but that doesn't mean every child should. Most parents have no problem patiently waiting how CI would work on their children, It doesn't happen overnight, It could take months to years to speak or understand language, because there a long training therapy, just as much the same as going through a deaf child without CI, And many children with implants now educated in mainstream schools rather than special schools, so are many deaf children without implants. There is no differences.

I feel that the parents want their deaf children to be able to hear just like them. I don't buy "I want what's best for my children" quote. Hearing parents don't know what's best, They want an easy way out and that's why they consider CI on children. It's certain easy for them because they don't need to wait patiently to see how far their child can make it through their early life developing learning speech, lip reading etc. You gotta remember not one deaf child is like another deaf child. Every person is different and that's the truth.

That's why I believe a decision on implanting a child should be up to his her choice, because for one reason only, They're the one living through this, they have to be the one wearing it not the parents.

If deaf adults can make a choice of decision regarding his/her life on getting an implanted then children should have that very same rights.
 
Hi Cheri! Welcome back!

I don't know if you want to be curious to see this video of Documentary on Twins with CI There is 3 sets of twins and one of them is from Sound and Fury. You can view them online via Captioned Media website (you need account with them and it is free, not sure if you already have one yet.)
http://www.cfv.org/browsetitles.asp?sn=484

scroll down to "Twins" pick the one that has D and I (Digital and Internet)

If you have already seen, then disregard this :D


I agree HA should be tried first if Parents wants them to hear. But If they do really benefit from HA then CI is moot point. If they do not benefit from HA then parent has choice, CI or continue to wear HA and hear environmental and face 18 yrs of speech therapy (like I did ) but my opinion, with CI, numbers of years in speech therapy is lessened and easier if implanted at young age.
 
Boult said:
Hi Cheri! Welcome back!

I don't know if you want to be curious to see this video of Documentary on Twins with CI There is 3 sets of twins and one of them is from Sound and Fury. You can view them online via Captioned Media website (you need account with them and it is free, not sure if you already have one yet.)
http://www.cfv.org/browsetitles.asp?sn=484

scroll down to "Twins" pick the one that has D and I (Digital and Internet)

If you have already seen, then disregard this :D


I agree HA should be tried first if Parents wants them to hear. But If they do really benefit from HA then CI is moot point. If they do not benefit from HA then parent has choice, CI or continue to wear HA and hear environmental and face 18 yrs of speech therapy (like I did ) but my opinion, with CI, numbers of years in speech therapy is lessened and easier if implanted at young age.
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Yea, I understand what you said.

Some hearing parents are just ahead for them to get CI at first place.
 
Cheri said:
...* parents think that CI is the only way out of the "what if" problems in the nearest future.
...* I've seen some parents went ahead implanting their children at a very young age, just because a child cannot speak yet.
...* There is no differences.
...* I feel that the parents want their deaf children to be able to hear just like them.
...* I don't buy "I want what's best for my children" quote. Hearing parents don't know what's best,
...* I They want an easy way out and that's why they consider CI on children.
...* I It's certain easy for them because they don't need to wait patiently to see how far their child can make it through their early life developing learning speech, lip reading etc.
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As the hearing parent of a deaf child - I don't recognise myself in your assumptions. Nor do I recognise other parents that are on this board. Guess we are in denial.

But interesting question is...
When you find out your child is deaf, why would you get HA's for it. It is as if you want your child to hear....Why not just let it be as deaf as it was born? If a HA works, that's great. If it doesn't help, why do you then make the choice that the child has to be deaf. Or just scratching the surface of hearing.

Why is it OK to use a HA to try to hear, but not a CI?
 
Cloggy said:
As the hearing parent of a deaf child - I don't recognise myself in your assumptions. Nor do I recognise other parents that are on this board. Guess we are in denial?
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Ah... I've seen plenty of hearing parents here had stated that nobody in the family are deaf, Am I correct so far? I also seen plenty of there's no deaf community where their hometown is located at, Am I correct again? I've seen plenty of hearing parents had stated that if they didn't give their children implant it's like restrict the child from obtaining to hear. Am I correct for the final time? I could go on forever to pull up all that I've picked up from hearing parents on this board. What does that make me think? It makes me think that it's what the parents want for themselves to make their duty much easlier. I know you gotta hate me for saying this. But, I'm sorry. :)
 
Cheri said:
Ah... I've seen plenty of hearing parents here had stated that nobody in the family are deaf, Am I correct so far? I also seen plenty of there's no deaf community where their hometown is located at, Am I correct again? I've seen plenty of hearing parents had stated that if they didn't give their children implant it's like restrict the child from obtaining to hear. Am I correct for the final time? I could go on forever to pull up all that I've picked up from hearing parents on this board. What does that make me think? It makes me think that it's what the parents want for themselves to make their duty much easlier. I know you gotta hate me for saying this. But, I'm sorry. :)
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I don't hate you - and I doubt you're sorry about what you wrote..
(BTW.. Not giving CI is restricting the child from obtaining to hear.)

You have been here long anough to see different kind of hearing parents visiting. But I also noticed that the assumptions about these parents are fixed. Instead of actually looking into the reasons for deciding as they did. I noticed that myself when I came here.

How many languages do you speak?
How much work is a child with CI?

But you didn't answer the question:
When you find out your child is deaf, why would you get HA's for it. It is as if you want your child to hear....Why not just let it be as deaf as it was born? If a HA works, that's great. If it doesn't help, why do you then make the choice that the child has to be deaf. Or just scratching the surface of hearing.
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Cloggy said:
I don't hate you - and I doubt you're sorry about what you wrote..
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That's ok if you don't believe me, there's nothing in the world I could do for you, beside being honest with my feelings is the best way I could do. ;)
(BTW.. Not giving CI is restricting the child from obtaining to hear.)
How many languages do you speak?
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Just one=English, Why? Because I live in America.
How much work is a child with CI?
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Alot of work of course, like is needed to learn how to identify and interpret different sounds, learning cured speech, and therapy as well. You think I didn't know that?

But you didn't answer the question:
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I don't need to answer that because You know what my answers would be, now would you? :)
You have been here long anough to see different kind of hearing parents visiting. But I also noticed that the assumptions about these parents are fixed. Instead of actually looking into the reasons for deciding as they did. I noticed that myself when I came here.
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Believe me I'm tried to hear them out, the real reason for their deciding why they implant their children, but after all I've noticed some things been thrown in their posts makes me wonder...:)
 
Getting too quick on the wrong foot here... That's not my intention.

To clarify.. I said "I doubt that you're sorry" is because you expresses your opinion. There's nothing to be sorry about that. "I'm sorry" is often used as an apology for speaking one's mind....

I asked you about languages because for us that was one of the reasons for CI. We are multilangual when communicating with family and friends. Our daughter can join in with all allready now because she has CI. She understands Dutch and Norwegian and sign. Without CI she would have been limited to sign with those who know sign (deaf kindergarden and us) and have a hard time distinguishing dutch and norwegian reading lips.
I just want to show you that as an example that CI is not chosen for a selfish reason, it's chosen for the benefit of all.

Cloggy: How much work is a child with CI?
Cheri: Alot of work of course, like is needed to learn how to identify and interpret different sounds, learning cured speech, and therapy as well. You think I didn't know that?
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So... CI is not the easy way out.. as you said in a post before.
In fact, CI is hard work. For the child AND for the parents.

Cloggy: You have been here long anough to see different kind of hearing parents visiting. But I also noticed that the assumptions about these parents are fixed. Instead of actually looking into the reasons for deciding as they did. I noticed that myself when I came here.

Cheri: Believe me I'm tried to hear them out, the real reason for their deciding why they implant their children, but after all I've noticed some things been thrown in their posts makes me wonder...

I still have to see a welcome to a hearing parent that decided for CI that sounded like "How did you make that decision" instead of "You have no right to do that, you do not accept your child as it is".

I'm sure there are parents that have a twisted view about deaf children and idolised view about CI. But you seem to assume that all hearing parents are like that. You actually said "Hearing parents don't know what's best, They want an easy way out and that's why they consider CI on children." even though you must have read the opposite in here.

Hearing parents are no expert on deafness. Nor is a deaf parent an expert on hearing. Nor is someone who's the parent of his/her first child an expert on parenting.
 
Cloggy said:
So... CI is not the easy way out.. as you said in a post before.
In fact, CI is hard work. For the child AND for the parents.
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That's not what I meant by what I stated above, I meant that when parents discovered their child is deaf, They don't know what to do, how to deal with the situation, thinking negative upon their future, example: how they'll impact within the world, finding jobs, communications along other people out in the world. That's what I meant by finding an easy way out on an implant not having to worry about their future, because they can hear but not 100 percent.
 
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Cheri said:
That's not what I meant by what I stated above, I meant that when parents discovered their child is deaf, They don't know what to do, how to deal with the situation, thinking negative upon their future, example: how they'll impact within the world, finding jobs, communications along other people out in the world. That's what I meant by finding an easy way out on an implant not having to worry about their future, because they can hear but not 100 percent.
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OK,
You are right... I can honestly say that we have thought about it, looked at her possible future, looked at the deaf world, saw deaf people... and decided for CI.
If that is the easy way out...

So what. What wrong with the easy way?
Should all deaf children go through the same as you, Angel, Sweetmind, Liebling etc went through, because from what I have read here, in DN, and elsewhere before we made the decision... being deaf is no picknick.

It's all fine to be proud to be deaf (my daughter will be proud to be deaf, and wearing CI), loving sign (I do), be as good as anyone else (everyone is).... in the end, it's still no picknick.

My daughter can enjoy deaf culture when she wants to. Go furter in sign when she wants to. In the mean while, she learns how to communicate with her grandparents, our friends, and another 100% of the world.
I think that's quite an awsome gift. And yes, it made us happy as well. Isn't a gift supposed to do that... make both parties happy....
 
Cloggy said:
OK,
You are right... I can honestly say that we have thought about it, looked at her possible future, looked at the deaf world, saw deaf people... and decided for CI.
If that is the easy way out...

So what. What wrong with the easy way?
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The way it sounds to me, You didn't have any faith on the opportunity what your daughter could do when she was deaf without being implated, like growing up being independent, intelligent nor prove to you that she could make it in the world as being deaf? Are you aware or ever aware that deaf people can benefit a good education and develop their skills, can function as well as anyone else. I don't see why being able to hear has to play the big role in anyone's lives to be able to impact within the world. I don't know what type of deaf people you've supposedly saw, or looked at the deaf world, because honestly not one deaf person is alike another deaf person either are hearing people.



Should all deaf children go through the same as you, Angel, Sweetmind, Liebling etc went through, because from what I have read here, in DN, and elsewhere before we made the decision... being deaf is no picknick....
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You know why being deaf is no picknick? Because of barrier dividing people who are deaf from hearing people and it's communication. If hearing people would take the time and patient in learning how to communicate with the deaf, we wouldn't be having this issue now would we? Look into the world, You'll see there are many different people with different cultures, backgrounds, values and one thing I just don't get is, Why are they being discriminated? Why are they treated like second-class citizens? I never understand that. We are all people, we are all human. My question is to you, Is that how you looked at it and run away from the fact what happened to us could happened to your daughter too?
 
I actually agree with Cloggy, if one of my children had been deaf enough to not get any benefit from a HA I'd implant (and early) . It's a moot point for me cause they're now grown up.

The reason I'd go ahead is the earlier a child gets an implant the easier it is for them to learn to listen and speak. All this is proven in different studies. There is no reason not to use the technology that is available to ease the communication problems a deaf person encounters throughout life. I would rather a child of mine be able to hear what co workers are joking about then to have to stand there just watching because most don'e sign well enough or spoken conversation just happens and they get left out until someone notices. It is not necessarily done on purpose but when you can hear and speak you just do it. So I'd give a child the chance to interact in the hearing world.

The child is still deaf, one of mine used to turn her HA's off during a teachers rants...thought she was really lucky!! And you know a child with a CI can do the same thing. :)

But as Cloggy asked, why is a HA exceptable technology but an implant isn't? The HA is to help hear and help with speech sounds so is the implant. So why is one exceptable and not the other?
 
Cheri said:
The way it sounds to me, You didn't have any faith on the opportunity what your daughter could do when she was deaf without being implated, like growing up being independent, intelligent nor prove to you that she could make it in the world as being deaf? Are you aware or ever aware that deaf people can benefit a good education and develop their skills, can function as well as anyone else. I don't see why being able to hear has to play the big role in anyone's lives to be able to impact within the world. I don't know what type of deaf people you've supposedly saw, or looked at the deaf world, because honestly not one deaf person is alike another deaf person either are hearing people.
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The way it sounds to me, You haven't understood that communication in multiple languages is way of life where I come from. CI will give her that ability. Going through life deaf would have made it (almost?) imposssible. THAT is one of the reasons. One of them, and a very important part. She lives in Norway, so her friends will be Norwegian. Her family comes from Holland, they speak dutch. Friends of the family mainly speak English.

NOw, be honest..
Draw me a picture of a deaf girl that grows up in that society.
 
I have to agree with you Cloggy on the multiligualism bit. It is very difficult for most Americans to grasp and we tend to get very much centered on the concept that English is it. For better or worst, spanish is forcing us to reexamine that issue as it gets more prominant.

I can't see your daughter doing as well without the tools of a CI in your society especially when the different languages will often spinoff different sign languages. That kind of meltingpot really forces one to have dibs in the hearing world somehow... To expect any deaf child to do well (without HA or CI) in a multilingual society as you mentioned is almost impossible (and is often impossible) and asking too much.
 
Cheri said:
The way it sounds to me, You didn't have any faith on the opportunity what your daughter could do when she was deaf without being implated, like growing up being independent, intelligent nor prove to you that she could make it in the world as being deaf? Are you aware or ever aware that deaf people can benefit a good education and develop their skills, can function as well as anyone else. I don't see why being able to hear has to play the big role in anyone's lives to be able to impact within the world. I don't know what type of deaf people you've supposedly saw, or looked at the deaf world, because honestly not one deaf person is alike another deaf person either are hearing people.





You know why being deaf is no picknick? Because of barrier dividing people who are deaf from hearing people and it's communication. If hearing people would take the time and patient in learning how to communicate with the deaf, we wouldn't be having this issue now would we? Look into the world, You'll see there are many different people with different cultures, backgrounds, values and one thing I just don't get is, Why are they being discriminated? Why are they treated like second-class citizens? I never understand that. We are all people, we are all human. My question is to you, Is that how you looked at it and run away from the fact what happened to us could happened to your daughter too?
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But after all is said and done, she is STILL deaf! There's no denying that fact. If she wants to go without any hearing all she has to do is take the CI's off. If she wants to "realize her full potential without being able to hear anything" all she has to do is take off the CI's. She speaks TWO languages plus ASL...I think that's remarkable. Instead of finding ways to nitpick at the parent, and question their choices made for a child that is obviously thriving and happy, why not be happy for the child?
 
But as Cloggy asked, why is a HA exceptable technology but an implant isn't? The HA is to help hear and help with speech sounds so is the implant. So why is one exceptable and not the other?
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I've wondered this since I started looking into CI for my daughter! From middle school through high school I was around the deaf community in our area alot. Most of my friends had parents that were deaf/hh. And when I found out that my daughter was deaf, I did NOT want her to get a CI even if HA's didn't work.


But I got thinking about it. How is this different from wanting a child to have a prosthesis of another kind? Probably most of us have seen those specials about children missing limbs that have gotten a prosthesis to help them walk or whatnot. That decision was made by the parents wanting the best for their child. Why aren't they criticized too? The younger children aren't asked, they are told they are going to start learning to use this. Why do parents get it? Because they know that more things will be open and available to their child with it. In the case of a leg, more jobs will be available, the child will be able to learn to play sports, dance, etc.. Those parents still accept their children as they are. They don't love them any less because they are missing a limb. They know that a prosthesis doesn't change who their child is, it doesn't suddenly make them "whole". And they know it's not the same as having a natural limb. But there doens't seem to be this huge controversy for them. They seem to be congratulated and supported for their choice.

Is it because those missing limbs haven't come together and started their own culture? And if we go into a CI being wrong because it strips a child of their deaf culture, then you must be against interracial children too? Isn't that the same? An interracial child is neither completely one race or another, niether all one culture or the other, but is able to learn from both, interact with both and as they grow up keep the customs and such that they prefer from both. Why is that so wrong with CI children? They get to be part of both the hearing culture and the deaf culture, they get to see both sides of the coin. As they grow up they can then decided for themselves what they want. How can you truly decided what you want if you don't know the other side of things?

If my daughter grows up and decides she no longer wants to use her CI. That's fine. That her choice. But right now, as her parents - it is my choice. That's what being a parent is about. Parents try to give their child as many tools as possible to carry through to adulthood. If parents think it is so important for children in general to have an understanding and appreciation for other cultures, religions, and ways of life in general, then I fail to see how this is so different.
 
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