The truth about me, Fuzzy...

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shel90 said:
Alright...

let's say someone wants to learn French. They can immerse themselves in the culture and language and learn.

Let's say someone wants to be able to hear better but they arent qualified for a CI...so they wont have that opportunity. Now, he/she would feel bad if someone said that having hearing means opening more doors or more enrichment.

That is what makes learning language and being able to hear better different.

Hope that makes sense?
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Exactly. The two are not comparable.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Oh, but you did have bad experience - the continuity of your access to communication in ASL
was interrupted.




You yourself said you couldn't understand:



You were still a child, and you were helpless to do anything about not having access to ASL.
THIS is what causing your negativity toward 'forcing' toward hearing and oral now.

Fuzzy
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You should probably leave the psychoanalyzation based on systems theory and the effects on the individual to people that are better qualified to do so than yourself.:cool2:
 
Audiofuzzy said:
You were still a child, and you were helpless to do anything about not having access to ASL.
THIS is what causing your negativity toward 'forcing' toward hearing and oral now.

Fuzzy
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nice ableism :slap:
 
Oh, but you did have bad experience - the continuity of your access to communication in ASL
was interrupted.


You said she has bad experience being a deaf person, no she was not. From her post you should have understood by now....she had a bad experience forn being forced acting like a hearing person. Did not her post implies that her parent did not ask for her consideration for hearing? No...and that is what most parent of deaf child doing. Without considering their child opinion, they go on taking their selfish desire into act.
You yourself said you couldn't understand:



You were still a child, and you were helpless to do anything about not having access to ASL.
THIS is what causing your negativity toward 'forcing' toward hearing and oral now.

No. She was talking about how parents should not take their child right on their body.....CI, is something children will decide for them self. Did not she said about hearing aid? hows it that paint her being negativity? Please, you are the one who is being negative about people not wearing a CI and not being a oral.


....................
 
she had a bad experience forn being forced acting like a hearing person. Did not her post implies that her parent did not ask for her consideration for hearing? No...and that is what most parent of deaf child doing.
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That's exactly what I am talking about. It can also be said
"As a deaf person, you had bad experience with hearing people" - it's the same thing.
It depends on the context, how it is said. Sorry you didn't understand me.

Bebonang was taken out of her comfort zone- ASL,
and forced to deal with hearing environment without having her needs considered.
This is what makes her experience bad.
Since she was first a little girl, then later a teenager - still a child without much saying how her schooling goes - she was helpless in these matters.

hows it that paint her being negativity? Please, you are the one who is being negative about people not wearing a CI and not being a oral.
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I explained, repeatedly, that CI is special int his way that it needs to be done ASAP.

You won't get as good result if done later,
And if the benefits of CI done years later are as little as, say, 50% less - why bother at all?

Fuzzy
 
You should probably leave the psychoanalyzation based on systems theory and the effects on the individual to people that are better qualified to do so than yourself
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And yet, the facts speak for themselves:

as I've mentioned earlier, the deaf and HoH people whose experiences in hearing world were favorable, are on principal CI, speech and oralism favorable.

Those who'se experiences at some point weren't favorable - aren't.
Simple.

It's no brainier.

Fuzzy
 
Being in the silence world is a great way to have happiness. There is nothing wrong with being in silence world at all.
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Okay, I get that.

But, now, what's wrong with being in a world with also sound if you have all the access to the ASL and Deaf community, just as you were in the world of silence,
only now with the addition of sound?

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
And yet, the facts speak for themselves:

as I've mentioned earlier, the deaf and HoH people whose experiences in hearing world were favorable, are on principal CI, speech and oralism favorable.

Those who'se experiences at some point weren't favorable - aren't.
Simple.

It's no brainier.

Fuzzy
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:io:
 
The question is not being avoided. It's been answered many times. Not only in this thread but in others. I'm not going to answer it, because you should have seen it by now.
 
We've already answered this question many times.
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Actually, no, it wasn't. And I am NOT trolling.

Shel explained to me that it is hurtful when a person who doesn't have a CI
or hearing abilities may feel worse because of the person who does.
And I get that.
But is this truly the reason to not to get the CI for those who want this?

Because somebody else who doesn't want it, will feel hurt?
But won't those who wish to hear feel hurt, too?


So, the question WHY some people are against CI and doesn't want to implant babies was answered, yes.

But exactly WHAT is wrong with being fluent in both ASL and be able to hear as many sound as possible and even be oral as best one can be


Why and what are two different things.

no, THIS question wasn't answered, sorry.
Nobody said: this is wrong because:......

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
I see.

Well, may I remind you the whole troubled arose because we were discussing implanting babies.
My argument PRO implanting babies is, more hearing is better because it comes handy, simply handy.

Of course, ASL and access to Deaf Culture is a must.


Does one is less of a person because one decide not to use that option of having more hearing in addition to all what being deaf offers?

Of course not, just like not learning French or Spanish or Chinese in communities where there is a lot French-Spanish-Chinese immigrants living does not make one less of a person.

Other ways will be found to communicate with these non-English speaking immigrants - maybe thru an interpreter, maybe by showing/drawing pictures, or by simply taking person by hand and taking her/him where they should go.
It could work.
It's just that knowing the language personally is practical and handy.
So why not take this option if it's offered at one point?

It is simply a matter of common sense, of comfort to me.
To take and have something additional that can make one's life comfortable.


But thanks to you, Shel, I can begin to understand better now, where does that whole combativeness is coming from.


I didn't realized it can be perceived this way. This is NOT how I mean this.
It's just that since it is my experience, since I was having a lot of hearing and speech, I can attest to how handy it is, how handy HAVING it is.

Do you think Shel, that you can agree that also your upbringing,-
(if we stop talking about how painful it was for now) - comes handy in situations when speech is needed?
do you think, that for example if you are with your very deaf friend you find yourself taking over when there is need for oral communication?

So, if you can't, or don't WANT to use speech or hearing- that's fine.

I am only saying do not deny CI to babies on belief that hearing is unnecessary.
It is may not be absolutely necessary, okay, but it is very handy, useful and valuable thing to have IMO. Is all I say.

Fuzzy
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If I had a deaf baby, I would not implant him/her. I couldnt do it for the sake of being hearing when it has been proven that many deaf people do fine without them.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Actually, no, it wasn't. And I am NOT trolling.

Shel explained to me that it is hurtful when a person who doesn't have a CI
or hearing abilities may feel worse because of the person who does.
And I get that.
But is this truly the reason to not to get the CI for those who want this?

Because somebody else who doesn't want it, will feel hurt?
But won't those who wish to hear feel hurt, too?


So, the question WHY some people are against CI and doesn't want to implant babies was answered, yes.

But exactly WHAT is wrong with being fluent in both ASL and be able to hear as many sound as possible and even be oral as best one can be


Why and what are two different things.

no, THIS question wasn't answered, sorry.
Nobody said: this is wrong because:......

Fuzzy
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I did not say that it was hurtful if a person got a CI and another didnt. It would be hurtful if the hearing world treated the person with the CI as an equal and treat the person who doesnt have a CI as a 2nd class citizen. That is the view that I despite. If it wasnt for the view of audism, we wouldnt have this problem. There are many ways to communicate without needing sound. Texting for one...
 
CSign said:
Any person who would behave that way deserves a swift kick in the ass.
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well, the hearing world treated my brother that way because he didnt have good speech skills. He is just as smart as I am if not smarter.
 
shel90 said:
If I had a deaf baby, I would not implant him/her. I couldnt do it for the sake of being hearing when it has been proven that many deaf people do fine without them.
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And I respect that Shel.
But see here, this is not what I asked last time and wanted to know about, see?

- I do 'hear' you and believe you when you say that many people do fine without sound. I do get that, believe me.
take dr Zazove- he became a physician without having sound.
So yes, I do get it. Do you believe me now?

But I asked about entirely different thing last time..


It would be hurtful if the hearing world treated the person with the CI as an equal and treat the person who doesnt have a CI as a 2nd class citizen.
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And I agree with you 100%, this shouldn't be.
But why should that stop the deaf babies who may have a chance to both sign and hear to be denied a chance to hear, too?
Rather than not implant, the people's attitude should changed, don't you agree?

well, the hearing world treated my brother that way because he didnt have good speech skills. He is just as smart as I am if not smarter.
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I experienced (still do) the same thing now and then. People bothered me because I lisp badly. I can relate.

Do you want me to go back in this thread to see who started what?
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I apologized to you. I don't recall you doing it to me once.
Besides, I might have been sarcastic toward you, but not as outright rude as you are being repeatedly to me, in multiple threads.


Now, to everyone.

Okay so I am stubborn. That's the way I am. Sorry no one likes it.
But how is that okay to disrespect me because I have an annoying trait of my personality - stubbornness?

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
And I respect that Shel.
But see here, this is not what I asked last time and wanted to know about, see?

- I do 'hear' you and believe you when you say that many people do fine without sound. I do get that, believe me.
take dr Zazove- he became a physician without having sound.
So yes, I do get it. Do you believe me now?

But I asked about entirely different thing last time..




And I agree with you 100%, this shouldn't be.
But why should that stop the deaf babies who may have a chance to both sign and hear to be denied a chance to hear, too?
Rather than not implant, the people's attitude should changed, don't you agree?



I experienced (still do) the same thing now and then. People bothered me because I lisp badly. I can relate.



I apologized to you. I don't recall you doing it to me once.
Besides, I might have been sarcastic toward you, but not as outright rude as you are being repeatedly to me, in multiple threads.


Now, to everyone.

Okay so I am stubborn. That's the way I am. Sorry no one likes it.
But how is that okay to disrespect me because I have an annoying trait of my personality - stubbornness?

Fuzzy
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I just couldn't take that risk with surgery knowin.g that something could go wrong for deafness. That's just me because I have lived with it and learned how to be ok with it. Since then, I don't have as many problems with hearing people.
 
Okay, never mind...

Travis is right in one aspect - this is going for far too long.

Looks like we are not going to reach an understanding.

May I remind you that the reason for this post was to clarify to everyone
that I am NOT AN AUDIST:

I was always of an opinion that:

- deaf babies should be allowed to SIGN freely
- parents of deaf children should learn sign language ASAP
- deaf children should be able to learn sign language and speech equally
- deaf babies, children, teens, adults should never ever be denied an access to their natural means of communication which is a SIGN LANGUAGE
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.... and the rest of my "manifesto" is at the beginning of this thread.

Time to end this.

Fuzzy
 
Following your logic, everyone should know sign, don't you agree?

(btw, if everyone signed, there would be almost no need to implant.)
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1. This would be great if SL was a common knowledge. not only for the deaf it would be easy, but this way the attitude toward Deaf would be much more better.

2. No, this where you don't understand me. I VALUE ability to hear, and sound.

I enjoy music, and being able to talk to people orally, and hear them talk back to me.
I enjoy other sounds - my dog barking and whining, the cat purring,
babies babbling, boiling water burbling, kettle whistling, bees buzzing,
and many other.

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
1. This would be great if SL was a common knowledge. not only for the deaf it would be easy, but this way the attitude toward Deaf would be much more better.

2. No, this where you don't understand me. I VALUE ability to hear, and sound.

I enjoy music, and being able to talk to people orally, and hear them talk back to me.
I enjoy other sounds - my dog barking and whining, the cat purring,
babies babbling, boiling water burbling, kettle whistling, bees buzzing,
and many other.

Fuzzy
Click to expand...

Sorry, I just see it differently. You have a lisp, and you've complained about that. You've wished you knew sign language, etc etc... Hence the reason I asked where it got you.....

I guess I don't understand why you have these issues and still act as a strong proponent for oralism.
 
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