The truth about me, Fuzzy...

[Cheetah]

I've just come home (early) from a family gathering with the gf's family. I tried to composed a response and then I realized, I don't want to continue this argument. I will let someone else take up the torch. Maybe if I feel better tomorrow I will respond. If you were a visitor in my home, I would thank you for your opinion and move on to another topic.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

I had migraines as a child. Haven't had them since switching to another school in grade six. I do value my independence but what does that have to do with speech?

Well, since you asked

for example if you need to communicate with a hearing person 'right now' and an interpreter is unavailable, you can by direct speech.
For example, you made an appmnt with a specialist months ahead,
and your interpreter failed to show.

Of course you can use pen and paper, but you can also use speech if you can.
Just handy.
And YOU can, because of your CI, can't you?

hey remember this

This is the song that never ends.
Yes it goes on, and on my friends,
Some people, started singing it not knowing what it was,
And they'll continue singing it forever just because,
This is the song that never ends.
(it keeps going on like that)



Fuzzy

 

[Audiofuzzy]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNTxr2NJHa0]Lamb chops play-Along - YouTube[/ame]

Fuzzy

 

[DeafCaroline]

Yes but considering communication is a two way street, I still need to lipread, and use pen and paper. Speaking well actually makes communication more difficult.

 

[DeafRaptor]

Thats fine... But to tell us it is impossible is projecting superiority, ya see?

From what I saw, audiofuzzy wasn't so much saying that it was impossible for deaf to become beauticians due to their hearing loss specifically, but that the country/industry had been saying it was impossible by denying the deaf people the chance to become beauticians. So in that case/example, the country/industry was the ones projecting the superiority.

...Not all of us share your opinion that the ability to hear (even a little bit) is a highly valuable skill... ...It's not this life saving, life enhancing, miracle....

To be fair, Audiofuzzy just posted that "hearing and talking is simply a skill", not "a highly valuable" one. I can see how hearing/speaking can be a skill, if one is able to acquire that skill and make use of it (it definitely is not feasible for everyone). Although I would probably use the term "tool". Just like many things that you put in your "toolbox" over your lifespan, you can use it 1)all the time, 2)once or twice, or 3) not at all; it's up to you on how you want to "get the job done". Not everyone has the same tools in their toolboxes, but they can still have a complete and very fulfilling life. However, that is my reason for supporting hearing aids for those that want them and can benefit from them. I am not for CI or other hearing surgeries personally. I agree that heaing aids, CIs, and other hearing surgeries do not "save a life", are not "miracles", and sometimes they can even be more of a hassle or problem that they ever could have been an "aid". Especially with preconceptions from a lot of hearing people that because you can speak well/okay and/or can lipread well/okay that you can therefore hear more than you actually can. As for me, I used that tool a lot growing up, but will not be using it much anymore. But that's just my two cents.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

From what I saw, audiofuzzy wasn't so much saying that it was impossible for deaf to become beauticians due to their hearing loss specifically, but that the country/industry had been saying it was impossible by denying the deaf people the chance to become beauticians. So in that case/example, the country/industry was the ones projecting the superiority.

Although I would probably use the term "tool". Just like many things that you put in your "toolbox" over your lifespan, you can use it 1)all the time, 2)once or twice, or 3) not at all; it's up to you on how you want to "get the job done". Not everyone has the same tools in their toolboxes, but they can still have a complete and very fulfilling life.

DeafRaptor, thank you for clarifying these things so well on my behalf.
You got the essence of what I wanted to say all this time.

I however, because I am not hearing, but have had this tool - hearing and speaking- made available to me, do believe it's worth so much as to use CI as well as HAs if one qualifies.

However, because SL and Deaf culture wasn't, and I feel I lacked this in my life,
I believe this also must come along in the life of person with a hearing loss.

Never 'or-or'.



Fuzzy

 

[Smithtr]

Lamb chops play-Along - YouTube

Fuzzy

cartoon i am laught

 

[faire_jour]

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Okay. I wonder, does that means it is too late for someone to learn how to speak and hear with CIs or HAs, right? If someone learn how to speak and hear at much early age, then it won't be a problem, right? So, if someone don't learn to speak and hear until much later, it is too late and cannot be learned at all? Am I understand you, right?

depends how much later. The outcomes for before 2 are great, before 4 ok. After age 5, things get much more difficult. After age 7, if the child is not already oral it is very unlikely that they will be.

In other words,FJ, you are saying that if a deaf child does not have a CI before the age of 5 - then that child cannot acquire spoken language and is therefore rendered not only Deaf but Dumb too?.....uh oh.

not saying that at all. I am saying that if a profoundly deaf from birth child is not implanted by around 5, they will not be able to learn to understand spoken language through listening. Listening and speaking are not the same thing.

 

[posts from hell]

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not saying that at all. I am saying that if a profoundly deaf from birth child is not implanted by around 5, they will not be able to learn to understand spoken language through listening. Listening and speaking are not the same thing.

You have been proved otherwise in this thread, just a FYI.....

 

[GrendelQ]

I think a lot of people here may be confusing learning to speak with learning to listen when talking about spoken language. Learning to speak is possible with or without CIs or HAs, regardless of age -- of course. But for a prelingualy deaf child, learning to listen and comprehend a spoken language using a CI at 1 or 2YO is a very different experience from that same child growing up without auditory access to language and attempting to listen to and comprehend language with a newly implanted CI at 6YO, 12 YO, 18YO.

 

[posts from hell]

I think a lot of people here may be confusing learning to speak with learning to listen when talking about spoken language. Learning to speak is possible with or without CIs or HAs, regardless of age -- of course. But for a prelingualy deaf child, learning to listen and comprehend a spoken language using a CI at 1 or 2YO is a very different experience from that same child growing up without auditory access to language and attempting to listen to and comprehend language with a newly implanted CI at 6YO, 12 YO, 18YO.

I certainly am not confused. I know of many others personally that were implanted later on and able to do what you guys are saying that only 2 yo's are capable of....

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

I think a lot of people here may be confusing learning to speak with learning to listen when talking about spoken language. Learning to speak is possible with or without CIs or HAs, regardless of age -- of course. But for a prelingualy deaf child, learning to listen and comprehend a spoken language using a CI at 1 or 2YO is a very different experience from that same child growing up without auditory access to language and attempting to listen to and comprehend language with a newly implanted CI at 6YO, 12 YO, 18YO.

I certainly am not confused. I know of many others personally that were implanted later on and able to do what you guys are saying that only 2 yo's are capable of....

people who could not hear or understand spoken language their entire life and then were implanted as adults and no longer lipread? They can understand running spoken language with their backs turned or from behind a door, or over the phone?

 

[GrendelQ]

I certainly am not confused. I know of many others personally that were implanted later on and able to do what you guys are saying that only 2 yo's are capable of....

Wow. If that's been your experience, I guess the newer CIs are a lot more effective than I thought they could be, and for the most part I think pretty highly of them, so that's saying a lot.

But, I've met quite a few late-implanted kids who weren't able to access sound as effortlessly as those implanted before 2 are able to, there are many implanted after 5 who have had to undergo some pretty significant auditory rehab to catch up all those years without learning the language, rather than learning to listen while learning the language through the same means any typically hearing child would, as do many children implanted at a younger age.

And we've seen the studies here (and in the usual places: Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education, educating deafchildren) time and again that support this finding.

 

[posts from hell]

Wow. If that's been your experience, I guess the newer CIs are a lot more effective than I thought they could be, and for the most part I think pretty highly of them, so that's saying a lot.

But, I've met quite a few late-implanted kids who weren't able to access sound as effortlessly as those implanted before 2 are able to, there are many implanted after 5 who have had to undergo some pretty significant auditory rehab to catch up all those years without learning the language, rather than learning to listen while learning the language through the same means any typically hearing child would, as do many children implanted at a younger age.

And we've seen the studies here (and in the usual places: Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education, educating deafchildren) time and again that support this finding.

Just a fyi.. it was not the "newer CI's." It was actually the 3g model.... back in the 90s with people being in their teens getting them.. (my age).

Just putting this out there so you guys know you don't really need to get 'em as young as you can... like the cigarette companies.

 

[posts from hell]

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people who could not hear or understand spoken language their entire life and then were implanted as adults and no longer lipread? They can understand running spoken language with their backs turned or from behind a door, or over the phone?

If you want to know.. I know a guy who can do that in a cowboy bar with like 200 women going wild on the dance floor, yup... He was implanted when he was a teen. Talks on the phone effortlessly, etc..

So your point of getting them as young as you can... *scoffs*

 

[AlleyCat]

We even had a thread a couple years back asking CI users to post what they can hear. The majority were of those who were late-implanted and could still understand spoken language. I understand not all can (I think more don't than do), but there's quite a lot who do. It's on this board somewhere.

 

[posts from hell]

We even had a thread a couple years back asking CI users to post what they can hear. The majority were of those who were late-implanted and could still understand spoken language. I understand not all can (I think more don't than do), but there's quite a lot who do. It's on this board somewhere.

Yup, quite a few testimonies about that here too. Quite a few vlogs about it too...

 

[posts from hell]

I think some people seriously underestimate how many people you can know of personally in the Deaf community.

 

[faire_jour]

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people who could not hear or understand spoken language their entire life and then were implanted as adults and no longer lipread? They can understand running spoken language with their backs turned or from behind a door, or over the phone?

If you want to know.. I know a guy who can do that in a cowboy bar with like 200 women going wild on the dance floor, yup... He was implanted when he was a teen. Talks on the phone effortlessly, etc..

So your point of getting them as young as you can... *scoffs*

and he couldn't do any of that with his hearing aids prior to being implanted? He did not have access to spoken language through listening growing up?

if not, i am really amazed. The research all points to him being really unique.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

We even had a thread a couple years back asking CI users to post what they can hear. The majority were of those who were late-implanted and could still understand spoken language. I understand not all can (I think more don't than do), but there's quite a lot who do. It's on this board somewhere.

understanding a few words here and there, or just with familiar speakers or solitary word discrim is different from being able to fully access spoken language.

i'm really surprised by this development. If spoken language is so accessible by even those so very late implanted, why are people fighting against spoken language settings?