The truth about me, Fuzzy...

[Audiofuzzy]

But isn't that the same as saying that a deaf life is incomplete without enhancement of hearing?

Simply - NO. but it helps.

The same way as saying one's life isn't incomplete just because one doesn't know French or Chinese or whatever.

BUT it does help and enrich.

Fuzzy

 

[jillio]

I see what your problem is - you just think so.... what's worse, you think
what you think automatically must mean it's holly. well, is not.

Also, in this thread, we are not analyzing the concept of audism only simply
my stance on what deaf babies should be allowed to do,
whether implanted or not.

sorry.

Fuzzy

Holly? Are you decorating for Christmas already?

Anyone's stance on what deaf babies should be allowed to do regarding their deafness includes the concept of audism. And you mentioned audism in the OP, so it is naturally a topic of discussion.

 

[jillio]

Simply - NO. but it helps.

The same way as saying one's life isn't incomplete just because one doesn't know French or Chinese or whatever.

BUT it does help and enrich.

Fuzzy

Fallicious comparison. Chinese or French is not a physical attribute or capability. And, if you want to compare them to hearing, then you must also realize that they are of use in only very limited situations. So, are you saying, by making that comparison, that hearing is only useful in very limited situations?

 

[Audiofuzzy]

I was talking to Travis, not about Travis......
Remedial reading might help you out here....

Remedial? come on, you manipulated me with your verbiage, I give you that.
Regardless, I apologize for falsely accusing you.

Fallicious comparison. Chinese or French is not a physical attribute or capability. And, if you want to compare them to hearing, then you must also realize that they are of use in only very limited situations.

Not so fallacious.

fallicious

The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar above.

1. fallacious
2. foliaceous
3. officious
4. facetious
5. phallicism

one would think you'd know how to spell your favorite word...
Fallicious - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
1. fallacious
Fallacious - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

And only the simpleton could think once you learn foreign language it's for limited use.
An intellectual make a good use of learned language on a daily basis,
as often as possible.
A simple example - reading books in original. watching movies in original.
talk to people via forums in their languages on a daily basis...

Of course, for that, you need to WANT to read books in the first place,
of course for that, you need to be an intellectual and want to read books,
and more....
Are you just eat-sh*t- sleep and work in between kind of person Jillio that
this simple idea didn't occur to you?

As for hearing, once you have some you use it without even being conscious of it. It always comes handy. There is no limited use for hearing.
At least I can't think of one for now.
Except of course for the situations when it call to protect hearing and ears, like too loud sounds - i.e explosion etc.

Fuzzy

 

[shel90]

Alright...

let's say someone wants to learn French. They can immerse themselves in the culture and language and learn.

Let's say someone wants to be able to hear better but they arent qualified for a CI...so they wont have that opportunity. Now, he/she would feel bad if someone said that having hearing means opening more doors or more enrichment.

That is what makes learning language and being able to hear better different.

Hope that makes sense?

 

[posts from hell]

Remedial? come on, you manipulated me with your verbiage, I give you that.
Regardless, I apologize for falsely accusing you.

Apology accepted. It takes a big person to accept apologies. Wish more could do the same.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

It takes a big person to accept apologies

You do have a sense of humor, I do give you that, too

Fuzzy

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Alright...

let's say someone wants to learn French. They can immerse themselves in the culture and language and learn.

Let's say someone wants to be able to hear better but they aren't qualified for a CI...so they wont have that opportunity. Now, he/she would feel bad if someone said that having hearing means opening more doors or more enrichment.

That is what makes learning language and being able to hear better different.

Hope that makes sense?

I see.

Well, may I remind you the whole troubled arose because we were discussing implanting babies.
My argument PRO implanting babies is, more hearing is better because it comes handy, simply handy.

Of course, ASL and access to Deaf Culture is a must.


Does one is less of a person because one decide not to use that option of having more hearing in addition to all what being deaf offers?

Of course not, just like not learning French or Spanish or Chinese in communities where there is a lot French-Spanish-Chinese immigrants living does not make one less of a person.

Other ways will be found to communicate with these non-English speaking immigrants - maybe thru an interpreter, maybe by showing/drawing pictures, or by simply taking person by hand and taking her/him where they should go.
It could work.
It's just that knowing the language personally is practical and handy.
So why not take this option if it's offered at one point?

It is simply a matter of common sense, of comfort to me.
To take and have something additional that can make one's life comfortable.

Now, he/she would feel bad if someone said that having hearing means opening more doors or more enrichment.

But thanks to you, Shel, I can begin to understand better now, where does that whole combativeness is coming from.


I didn't realized it can be perceived this way. This is NOT how I mean this.
It's just that since it is my experience, since I was having a lot of hearing and speech, I can attest to how handy it is, how handy HAVING it is.

Do you think Shel, that you can agree that also your upbringing,-
(if we stop talking about how painful it was for now) - comes handy in situations when speech is needed?
do you think, that for example if you are with your very deaf friend you find yourself taking over when there is need for oral communication?

So, if you can't, or don't WANT to use speech or hearing- that's fine.

I am only saying do not deny CI to babies on belief that hearing is unnecessary.
It is may not be absolutely necessary, okay, but it is very handy, useful and valuable thing to have IMO. Is all I say.

Fuzzy

 

[Smithtr]

Remedial? come on, you manipulated me with your verbiage, I give you that.
Regardless, I apologize for falsely accusing you.



Not so fallacious.

fallicious

The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar above.

1. fallacious
2. foliaceous
3. officious
4. facetious
5. phallicism

one would think you'd know how to spell your favorite word...
Fallicious - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
1. fallacious
Fallacious - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

And only the simpleton could think once you learn foreign language it's for limited use.
An intellectual make a good use of learned language on a daily basis,
as often as possible.
A simple example - reading books in original. watching movies in original.
talk to people via forums in their languages on a daily basis...

Of course, for that, you need to WANT to read books in the first place,
of course for that, you need to be an intellectual and want to read books,
and more....
Are you just eat-sh*t- sleep and work in between kind of person Jillio that
this simple idea didn't occur to you?

As for hearing, once you have some you use it without even being conscious of it. It always comes handy. There is no limited use for hearing.
At least I can't think of one for now.
Except of course for the situations when it call to protect hearing and ears, like too loud sounds - i.e explosion etc.

Fuzzy

you are fault because sometimes I am wisdom because serious because I am very defend because protect! Don't be hear negative or complaint or something !

I aware it don't be manuplite to member illegal because hurt because ruin your friends loss not joke because serious I don't want hear you are mistake and avoid wordd play games

I expert to observed it I study review on your personal I inspector your posts seems behavior I sorry your on seem kids I am very honest I tell you words I was very my confidecent my on personal I knew on careful Don't be hurting feeling low on self people AD

I don't think so ask you explain to understand apologized willing and forgive your msitake on forum

 

[Grummer]

Alright...

let's say someone wants to learn French. They can immerse themselves in the culture and language and learn.

Let's say someone wants to be able to hear better but they arent qualified for a CI...so they wont have that opportunity. Now, he/she would feel bad if someone said that having hearing means opening more doors or more enrichment.

That is what makes learning language and being able to hear better different.

Hope that makes sense?

not neccessarily, you can learn to cook french instead and that will give you its culture without needing to fly over to Paris

 

[Bebonang]

I see.

Well, may I remind you the whole troubled arose because we were discussing implanting babies.
My argument PRO implanting babies is, more hearing is better because it comes handy, simply handy.

Of course, ASL and access to Deaf Culture is a must.

I am only saying do not deny CI to babies on belief that hearing is unnecessary.
It is may not be absolutely necessary, okay, but it is very handy, useful and valuable thing to have. IMO. Is all I say.

Fuzzy

Yes, ASL and Deaf Culture is very important in our life.

But leave the deaf babies and deaf children alone. I do not want the devices (CIs) inside of the cochlear. It is better to have a devices outside of the bodies so that when the devices don't work or if deaf babies could not hear the sounds, they can always be replaced or get another new devices to wear. That is all I have to say.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

But leave the deaf babies and deaf children alone. I do not want the devices (CIs) inside of the cochlear. It is better to have a devices outside of the bodies so that when the devices don't work or if deaf babies could not hear the sounds, they can always be replaced or get another new devices to wear. That is all I have to say.

And here we disagree.

For to babies to receive the most benefits from CI is to implants ASAP.
Any later, and you are missing the point.
As long as implantation does not interfere with learning ASL and having
and access to Deaf Culture, why would one be against that, is beyond me.

Or, rather, I know- it's a personal view based not in objectivity
but deeply rooted in personal early experiences.

You, Bebonang, had had a bad early experiences as a deaf person.
So did Shel.

Both of you because of that intensely dislike now anything that has to do with hearing, speech, oralism etc.
You love everything that has to do with deaf, Deaf and ASL because only there you finally, at last,
felt fully accepted, non -judged and fully understood.

You deny all that, but in fact every time we are discussing this subject your personal experiences come to surface and color your opinion whether you know it or not.

To the contrary, people who had positive experiences with hearing while growing up - they are more accepting toward CI than those who had negative experiences and were denied access to ASL and the Deaf ties.

Fuzzy

 

[Audiofuzzy]

you are fault because sometimes I am wisdom because serious because I am very defend because protect! Don't be hear negative or complaint or something !

I am sorry Travis you didn't like my reply to Jillio.

She made fun of me misspelling "holy".

She shouldn't have done that, since she is quite a bad speller herself.
She should fix her OWN mistakes first before she goes on correcting others.

Also, she presented her arguments against hearing being vaulable.
I presented my contr- arguments. That's all. They were harsh, I know. Sorry.
But she is a big girl, she can take it. I am sure she'll pay me back

Fuzzy

 

[posts from hell]

I want to be harsh, so here goes:

What places have hearing gotten you, Fuzzy?

 

[Audiofuzzy]

What places have hearing gotten you, Fuzzy?

For example I was able to became an esthetician whereas for non -hearing person it was impossible.

Fuzzy

 

[AlleyCat]

Why?

 

[posts from hell]

For example I was able to became an esthetician whereas for non -hearing person it was impossible.

Fuzzy

There are a few estheticians that are deaf.... One of them are on the board. One of them is my daughter's mother... the other is my boss' wife....

The last two are Deaf, uses ASL....

I think you successfully offended the Deaf estheticians.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

There are a few estheticians that are deaf.... One of them are on the board. One of them is my daughter's mother... the other is my boss' wife....

You need to read with understanding. I offended nobody.

YOU asked ME where did my hearing took me. I replied the truth:

For example I was able to became an esthetician whereas for non -hearing person it was impossible.

At the time when I attempted to be an esthetician, no deaf person was accepted, period. I replied true.

Perhaps times have changed now, but not back then, in the late 70ties,
in my home country.

And my ability to hear and speak serves me on a daily basis.
I still can communicate more or less in my native language on the phone.
So when I absolutely must, I can and I will get what I need.

In most situation, I do understand people speaking to me and people understand me- more independence.

If I (rarely) happen to be in presence of a deaf person, I automatically am to carry the communication between the deaf and the hearing person
on the account that I CAN.

Fuzzy

 

[Bebonang]

And here we disagree.

For to babies to receive the most benefits from CI is to implants ASAP.
Any later, and you are missing the point.
As long as implantation does not interfere with learning ASL and having
and access to Deaf Culture, why would one be against that, is beyond me.

Or, rather, I know- it's a personal view based not in objectivity
but deeply rooted in personal early experiences.

You, Bebonang, had had a bad early experiences as a deaf person.
So did Shel.

Both of you because of that intensely dislike now anything that has to do with hearing, speech, oralism etc.
You love everything that has to do with deaf, Deaf and ASL because only there you finally, at last,
felt fully accepted, non -judged and fully understood.

You deny all that, but in fact every time we are discussing this subject your personal experiences come to surface and color your opinion whether you know it or not.

To the contrary, people who had positive experiences with hearing while growing up - they are more accepting toward CI than those who had negative experiences and were denied access to ASL and the Deaf ties.

Fuzzy

I did not have a bad early experience as a deaf person. I was completely happy being in a silence world until my mother took me to the audiologist's office to get my hearing test and my first hearing aid. That was when I was almost 9 years old. If my mother had left me alone as what I was before, I would not have that problem. I had hope she had put me in a Deaf school instead of mainstream school. It would be a lot easier in the Deaf school than in the mainstream school. In the mainstream elementary school, it was kind of okay. Still no ASL allowed in the special education classes. Mainstream high school is really way worse than trying to lipread and not get any accommodation to make me understand what they said.

Don't forget it is the babies' and children's bodies that is none of the parents' and the authorities' business. It is their own bodies if someone force them to wear CI without their permission. Of course, they are too young to make the decisions, but still it is better to wait until they have decide to have CI at a later date. Why the hurry if you are so eagerly wanting the child to get CI at a baby age? Let the babies enjoyed their babyhood without the CI. Being natural is the way to go. Being in the silence world is a great way to have happiness. There is nothing wrong with being in silence world at all.

So don't accuse me of having a bad experience as a deaf person.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Oh, but you did have bad experience - the continuity of your access to communication in ASL
was interrupted.

That was when I was almost 9 years old. If my mother had left me alone as what I was before, I would not have that problem. I had hope she had put me in a Deaf school instead of mainstream school. It would be a lot easier in the Deaf school than in the mainstream school. In the mainstream elementary school, it was kind of okay. Still no ASL allowed in the special education classes.

You yourself said you couldn't understand:

Mainstream high school is really way worse than trying to lipread and not get any accommodation to make me understand what they said.

You were still a child, and you were helpless to do anything about not having access to ASL.
THIS is what causing your negativity toward 'forcing' toward hearing and oral now.

Fuzzy