The sun and the earth... on cued speech

shel90 said:
I know it was invented at Gally but as far as not supporting it anymore, I dont know. When I was in grad school there studying deaf education, they had CS classes for us. That was in 2002 so maybe things have changed since then. I will have to ask my friend who is a student now about this. Lemme page her.
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There was a poll if Gallaudet should re-institute CS on a blog last year, so the rumors about Gallaudet not supporting CS can also be due to Gallaudet requring the CS'ers to learn ASL to attend the university. Though I am not sure.
 
flip said:
There was a poll if Gallaudet should re-institute CS on a blog last year, so the rumors about Gallaudet not supporting CS can also be due to Gallaudet requring the CS'ers to learn ASL to attend the university. Though I am not sure.
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Ok..I am still waiting for my friend to reply. That's interesting.
 
loml said:
jillio - The facts are you do not know how to cue, nor do you wish to learn how to (through your own admission). So in fact you do not have cueing education. if you want to warp it into me questioning "your education"...have at 'er.
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I used your words, loml, copied and pasted from your post.

And you are correct, I do not have cueing education, as in I do not cue, nor do I wish to, as I have virtually no clients and no friends who use this mode of English. However, I do have knowledge of the system, as I have already posted. I began investigating Cued Speech in 1988 with the works of Hilde Schlesinger and Kathryn Meadows, 2 of the most respected researchers in the field of child development and deafness. I rely on the experts that are able to view cueing through multidisciplinary eyes, and ascertain exactly how it interacts with linguistic development, psycho-social development, educational achievement, and communication competency. And what I have discovered from 1988 to present is that it is a rarely used mode of conveying English, that it does not provide all of the benefits that early exposure to ASL provides, and despite it's 40 year history, it has yet to be empirically proven to be a benefit. While I concede that it may, may have you, usefulness as a teaching tool for reading skills, this has yet to be supported through studies. CS was all but forgotten until the furor over CI started, and it is only seeing a resurgance now because of the push toward oralism that has accompanied CI. The biggest selling point is that CS is easily learned by hearing parents. IMO the parent's needs are not the most important variable in the discussion of linguistic development of the deaf child. The deaf child's needs are by far the most important variable. And extensive research has supported the concept of a Bi-Bi educational and linguistic atmosphere for the deaf child. By far, the highest achieving individuals are those that have exposure to both ASL and speech, in both the CI populations and the non-CI populations. When I see some research that indicates that CS can achieve the same results, I will certainly take that into account in my assessment. To date, none exists. The only thing that can be found is anecdote from a few CS advocates.
 
deafskeptic said:
That CS would be considered a rival to oralism comes as a surprise to me as I recall that in the 2nd grade, cued speech became the in thing in my oral program. I don't recall using cued speech before 2nd grade and by 3rd grade, my family hardly ever used CS. I always thought CS was popular with many oralists.
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It is the oralist concession to the need for visual information of the deaf individual. Strict oralism was such a complete failure for the deaf population as a group that they had to back up and restate their position. To concede that ASL was the language needed, rather than the predominant spoken English language would have meant that the oral postition would have to be abandoned. So they made the concession to Cued Speech which allows them to hang onto their postion that spoken English should be the language of the deaf.
 
flip said:
Sure, I just find it dizzy that Cloggy posts articles that disagree with your CS philosophy, while he goes all supportive about CS on this board. Cloggy also fails to see that CS is quite often seen as a rival to oralism depedent on sound and speech alone, that Cloggy promotes.

It doesn't make sense, and it gives a impression of a man that don't know what he is saying anymore.
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IMO, an accurate impression. Far too many contradictions.
 
Kaitin said:
Learn ASL because ASL is the language of deaf culture, CI can fail or need to turn off, CI may not work enough for all kids, a kid with CI still is deaf and ASL is the natural language, and ASL is a beautiful language to know for anyone. ASL is easier to learn as a kid. If later they need or want ASL, now why refuse to teach it? The parents can learn more ASL as the kid grows so they are good with ASL when the kid can communicate more.

The kid will struggle her whole life with communication - even with CI - so why would the parents refuse the work to learn ASL for a few years? Maybe the parent's work shows the parents a tiny bit of the struggle of the kid and new thinking about deaf and deaf community - another big benefit. It is hard to be the one deaf kid in a hearing family IME so the family knowing ASL is the hearing family trying deaf life for once - probably all other times everything is about the deaf kid being in the hearing world. So learning ASL is a small work for hearing parents to reach the deaf kid.

Just one example -

From Child: Care, Health and Development, volume 28 Issue 5 Page 403-418, September 2002: A psychosocial follow-up study of deaf preschool children using cochlear implants

The aim of the study was to explore patterns of communication between 22 children with cochlear implants (CI) and their parents, teachers and peers in natural interactions over a 2-year period. The children, between 2 and 5 years old when implanted, had used the implant between 1 and 3.5 years at the end of the study. Analyses of videorecorded interactions showed that meaningful oral communication was more easily obtained in the home setting than in the preschool setting. Patterns of communication between parent–child, content and complexity of dialogues, quality of peer interactions, communicative styles of adults, and the use of sign language in communication turned out to be important factors when explaining the result of the CI on the individual child's development. The children with the best oral skills were also good signers.
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The same results have been obtained consistently, through replication, over a number of years, and apply to both CI implanted children and non-CI implanted children. That in and of itself, can lead to the logical conclusion that a CI implanted child has more in common developmentally, linguistically, and in learning style and cognition with other deaf children than with hearing children.
 
shel90 said:
By that statement about ASL, it is apparent Cloggy feels that ASL is not as worth learning.

What I find funny is that Cloggy is fluent in more than one language which shows that he is capable of taking the time to learn more than one language but wont put in that time for sign language.
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Good point. Very willing to learn spoken languages, but sees no need for manual languages, despite having deaf offspring. What's the word we use for that attitude? I believe it starts with an "A".
 
flip said:
There was a poll if Gallaudet should re-institute CS on a blog last year, so the rumors about Gallaudet not supporting CS can also be due to Gallaudet requring the CS'ers to learn ASL to attend the university. Though I am not sure.
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flip - When I. King Jordan was the President of Gally, he had the Cued SPeech Center closed, stated bugetary restraints.
 
jillio said:
I used your words, loml, copied and pasted from your post.

And you are correct, I do not have cueing education, as in I do not cue, nor do I wish to, as I have virtually no clients and no friends who use this mode of English. However, I do have knowledge of the system, as I have already posted. I began investigating Cued Speech in 1988 with the works of Hilde Schlesinger and Kathryn Meadows, 2 of the most respected researchers in the field of child development and deafness........
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So...
you can base your "knowledge" on a 1988 research, but when someone shows a 2005 article... you want to see something "recent".

Using 2 standards again JT.... !!!

But sure... you stick to your 1988 research.....
What did it say about CS and CI ??
 
Cloggy said:
So...
you can base your "knowledge" on a 1988 research, but when someone shows a 2005 article... you want to see something "recent".

Using 2 standards again JT.... !!!

But sure... you stick to your 1988 research.....
What did it say about CS and CI ??
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I said began in 1988, cloggy, and followed it with a statement that says "to date." Are you having problems with comprehension again? Perhaps CS would assist you in your reading comprehension. Why don't you try it and get back to me?

In the meantime, why don"t you find someone to stop that merry-go-round you are on. You are obviously getting dizzy.
 
jillio said:
I said began in 1988, cloggy, and followed it with a statement that says "to date." Are you having problems with comprehension again? Perhaps CS would assist you in your reading comprehension. Why don't you try it and get back to me?

In the meantime, why don"t you find someone to stop that merry-go-round you are on. You are obviously getting dizzy.
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Not dizzy.... :bye:

But glad to see that you argree that CS would assist in reading comprehension.

You see.... reading on AllDeaf does help you to broaden your views. You learned something...
Way to go JT !!
 
jillio said:
The first programs cut in academia during budget constraints are those that are the least effective.
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Send you money here: Make sure you mark your donation Cued Speech Center

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loml said:
flip - When I. King Jordan was the President of Gally, he had the Cued SPeech Center closed, stated bugetary restraints.
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Oh. A bummer, hope it re-opens someday again as I belive in as much research as possible on deaf topics.
 
Cloggy said:
Not dizzy.... :bye:

But glad to see that you argree that CS would assist in reading comprehension.

You see.... reading on AllDeaf does help you to broaden your views. You learned something...
Way to go JT !!
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I said "perhaps", cloggy. It has not been supported through empirical evidence. Why don't you give it a shot? Once you improve your comprehension, you might be capable of actually learning something when you read, and understand that which you read. If you aren't dizzy why is it that you are going around in circles and babbling nonsense? Is crack legal in Norway?
 
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