jillio
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This is such a distorted statement, I don't even know where to begin to correct the mis-assumptions.
The new deaf generation....speaking and listening
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This is such a distorted statement, I don't even know where to begin to correct the mis-assumptions.
jillio
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I would go a step further, and say it is criminal.
jillio
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That is downright scary.
jillio
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You know what I find ironic? The words "New deaf generation". There is nothing new here. Just a repeat of the same old audist policies that have kept deaf children undereducated and deaf adults in a position of oppression for centuries.
It doesn't work. When are you going to stop repeating history and try something else?
It doesn't work. When are you going to stop repeating history and try something else?
If that is true, then how come there are still hoh kids with significent spoken language issues? They can hear easier and better....but they will still experiance a TON of the downsides of being mainstreamed, and the social emotional issues and stuff. The thing is....Geers, Moog and Flexor and those old lady pro oral only advocates think that ' you get a profoundly or severely deaf kid to hoh levels and everything is just fine and dandy." HOH kids have a lot of the same issues that deaf kids do. It's just that they're swept under the rug. We are mainstreamed and pushed towards the Hearing World. All I can say is that, I am pretty much a product of that sort of placement/methodology....and I know MANY MANY hoh kids who suffered under the system. Thing is.....the oral deaf advocates do not understand the downsides of the system.
Grummer
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my thoughts exactly, it IS'NT new.
I too have SEEN First hand of this repeat, right here in New Zealand, that is a country of one of the kind in the world to have a NZSL (Sign Language) recognised as a third (yes, THIRD) offical language of this nation, yet it doesnt mean SHIT, it doesnt even have commission. No protection, more so, with CI-Hearing aids methods still rampant in Deaf education, there is no protection for should d/Deaf student falls behind due to an extraordinary amount of ignorance on just how hard it is for d/Deaf children struggles to assimilate to speech. It FAILED and STILL CONTINUES to FAIL. ALL to do with keeping parents happy with the 'lingustically crippled child/children, THE Ironic part is that (id add to Jill's comment) the speech,oralism is in FACT, (remember Facts are NEVER neutral, as a sociologist would maintain) in my way of using Fact, is this, it is undeniable but it is never recorded by authority, simply because 'authority' is those in the hands of the hearing educators, we Deaf people dont have commission to counter balance this findings to deem another 'facts'..
So in this line of thinking, fact is that oralised d/Deaf children are just getting MORE fucked up especially now that the demands for highly literated up comers in the future workforce is simply NOT going to be met by CI/audism/oralism approaches , NO WAY!!
ALSO the crass lack of accommodation deemed by ADA and such like isnt going to do much without a means for Deaf people having an offical place to authorise the obligation to provide d/Deaf workers at free of charge to companies/small business/partnership/sold owners to employ or self-employ would be fantastic workers/leaders/business entreperurers...
Accommodation and recognition of alternatives to fit d/Deaf people is actually the FREEDOM which d/Deaf people rightly deserves AND are rightly to be in legal obligation. They already gave ramps to wheelchairs user (but they are Hearing -remember they speak the language of the majority) So its another thing altogether if not UNrelated...it is all related nevertheless!
jillo, have you seen a lot of the damage from the auditory verbal approach?
Even auditory oral is better then auditory verbal.
Even auditory oral is better then auditory verbal.
Ditto. What pro AVT/auditory oral folks tend to brush under the rug is that yes...many kids do not need intense oral programming like in the old days with Clarke....BUT they still hit the fourth grade glass ceiling...not to mention the hell hole of middle and high school.
Grummer
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Listening 'fluently" is impossible because a Hearing culture is NOT visable, can never be taken for granted, not even by those so-called successful CI kids...they are trained to live 'in the bubble' which mimick the 'understanding of their environment' . It is UNNATURAL, moreso hearing kids arent gonna respond naturally, theres Always some kind of awkwardness. We deaf/Deaf people knows its intimately that feeling of deception and traded-communication to replace real emotion/attachment - even attraction...
not sure what im saying here, but im right now venturing to something i never said before... so there it goes, does anyone respond or could add to it? it'd be great if you could
Cheers
Yours in Sign
Grummer
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yes it made mine churned too, really quite revolting to say the least. and yes it is DOMINANT right NOW, CI's is just a much more commited form of oralism they shifted the powers from teachers to medical powers which effectively reinforced the medicalisation of Deaf education per se via the channels of dominant secular science which relates closely to the normative hegemony. Sometimes I worries that 'geek talk' amongst d/Deaf computer euthurstists (spelling?), are unwittingly praising that same very attitudes of technological superiority which in turn, its from the same framework of aspiration via technology as a kind of religion. But thats just my 'take' or rather my generosity to spell out radical ideas that i probably best keep to myself... nevertheless its something we ough to be aware of 'how far is technonology useful for humanity and how far is it exploited for use to dominate?'
hmmm something to ponder yes?
cheers
From ads here on alldeaf i thought clarke is AVT school now. my childhood was an eternal therapy.i still destroy the house over it
The fact it is now taught in primary schools doesnt mean shit because the parents can have the lawfully ability to remove their kids from class
sign language is free once learned. the professionals want jobs maintaining hearing tech, articulation of the persons speech
Then again, jillo, another part of the reason why dhh (and blind low vision, and other low incidence disabilty) kids have such a huge range of functioning, is b/c many kids who need specialized EI, may get EI NOT from deaf or blind schools, but rather "general disabilty" EI. Like their EI speech therapist may be experianced with working with Down's kids or CP kids, but not have a lot of experiance with dhh kids.
No. The HOPE that technology will make dhh kids function normally is tipping the scale. But yet, if HAs haven't provided that, then what makes you think CIs will? It's clear that CIs provide a HUGE HUGE varied benifit. There are still a lot of CI kids in Deaf Schools you know! And since only a small population of deaf kids are implanted, that makes you think. I also think it's going to be exactly like it was with Braille and blind ed. Braille is blind ed's ASL. Meaning it wasn't very popular. They actually replaced Braille with books on tape. They said that books on tape were going to equalize blind kids. Guess what? There's a very high rate of unemployment in the blind community. Of those who are employed most are Braille literate! Plus, if technology is THE answer then how come hoh people ALSO have a HUGE HUGE rate of unemployment? These are a population who are the most oralized and most mainstreamed. Guess what? They STILL face the same problems the deafer population does!
Miss-Delectable
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Technology does not guarantee that children with CI will grow up to get good jobs, if they only have good speech and listening skill to speak of.
Too often, the focus is on speech and listening to the point that education was not a top priority for the parents.
AVT should be outlawed in my opinion.
Too often, the focus is on speech and listening to the point that education was not a top priority for the parents.
AVT should be outlawed in my opinion.
Grummer
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Roght on!
yea i speak well and can stumble but have no employable skills to write on cv some great 11 years of education i got. oh well im now in a great correspondence program to finish high school and move on to a highly recommended legal executive program and a entry level stablehand programme
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Although I've researched it, I've no first-hand knowledge of AVT -- we chose not to take the approach, it doesn't specifically prohibit the use of sign, but it also doesn't include it. We were looking for more means of communication, not anything that might limit opportunities.
It's also not as common as you might think, there are not all that many certified AVT professionals out there. I know some families who use it, but many CI families I know -- even those who don't use sign -- don't use AVT . I don't see much difference at all in how they communicate with and educate their children.
My understanding is that AVT is usually conducted for ~3 years during the infant / toddler stage and no longer needed once schooling begins, and can involve visiting an AVT professional anywhere from twice a month (for an hour) up to once or twice a week hour-long sessions.
It's also not as common as you might think, there are not all that many certified AVT professionals out there. I know some families who use it, but many CI families I know -- even those who don't use sign -- don't use AVT . I don't see much difference at all in how they communicate with and educate their children.
My understanding is that AVT is usually conducted for ~3 years during the infant / toddler stage and no longer needed once schooling begins, and can involve visiting an AVT professional anywhere from twice a month (for an hour) up to once or twice a week hour-long sessions.
I always have to laugh whenever someone says they made an "informed decision" because I know that is often not the case. At the same time, I have to shake my head because there's also nothing funny about it, as weird as that sounds.
I took this (which I have added the bold to) to mean the kids that are growing up now. Not as a reference to policies but time as in which years (say 1950's with those growing up in the 2010's being a new generation).
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And Jillio took it to mean New Deaf as in a different way of being.
But I digress. I love literal thinkers.
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