The new deaf generation....speaking and listening

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DeafCaroline said:
That's really interesting. I am very good at writing and creative writing and was in advanced classes but there was one thing I had serious struggles with which was symbolism in literature. In grade nine, we were studying Old Man and the Sea and the teacher was saying that the boat represented a journey and that the horizon represented the end of life and I was like "where did it say that in the book?"

That was when I realized I was very literal that way. And continued to have problems writing papers on symbolism. I'm better at it now and better at picking it up in books.

The other thing I noticed is how stiff and linear hearing ASL students (beginners) are with signing, their grasp of facial expressions and classifiers were pretty limited. They weren't very creative in showing multiple meanings or inflection or tone.

I think you're pretty bang on there jillio. And by the way, that's a nice compliment!
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:ty: I was very pleased when she told me that!

You know, mentioning writing, I will notice that deaf students are often more creative with English in their writing than in their speaking. I have always attributed it to the fact that spoken communication (as in coversation) is more spontaneous, and we rely more on unconscious use of the language, so that which really hasn't been internalized does not get used. In writing, we have more time to consider our choices. Internalized language is a sign of a native user.
 
DeafCaroline said:
That's really interesting. I am very good at writing and creative writing and was in advanced classes but there was one thing I had serious struggles with which was symbolism in literature. In grade nine, we were studying Old Man and the Sea and the teacher was saying that the boat represented a journey and that the horizon represented the end of life and I was like "where did it say that in the book?"

That was when I realized I was very literal that way. And continued to have problems writing papers on symbolism. I'm better at it now and better at picking it up in books.

The other thing I noticed is how stiff and linear hearing ASL students (beginners) are with signing, their grasp of facial expressions and classifiers were pretty limited. They weren't very creative in showing multiple meanings or inflection or tone.

I think you're pretty bang on there jillio. And by the way, that's a nice compliment!
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When I first joined AD in 2006, I really didnt understand how much of an impact oralism had on my language development until Jillio explained this issue. I have the same struggles as you do although I am better now but seeing how my former high school classmates were able to play around with English on FB made me realize how limiting the oral-only philosophy has been on me. It makes me angry that the audists think they have the right to mess around with deaf children like that.
 
DeafCaroline said:
That's really interesting. I am very good at writing and creative writing and was in advanced classes but there was one thing I had serious struggles with which was symbolism in literature. In grade nine, we were studying Old Man and the Sea and the teacher was saying that the boat represented a journey and that the horizon represented the end of life and I was like "where did it say that in the book?"

That was when I realized I was very literal that way. And continued to have problems writing papers on symbolism. I'm better at it now and better at picking it up in books.

The other thing I noticed is how stiff and linear hearing ASL students (beginners) are with signing, their grasp of facial expressions and classifiers were pretty limited. They weren't very creative in showing multiple meanings or inflection or tone.

I think you're pretty bang on there jillio. And by the way, that's a nice compliment!
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I remember how I completely missed the symbolism in F. Scott Fitzgerald's The Great Gatsby in my Senior AP English class at MSSD years ago. A Deaf girl who was from a Deaf family picked up on it and explained it to the class. I'm not extremely literal minded but I do miss some symbolism in literary works.

Perhaps that's why I wasn't much into poetry at first. I'm still not really into it even now though I love Emily Dickenson. I think someone posted a poem by her called Because I could not stop for Death in another thread.
 
shel90 said:
When I first joined AD in 2006, I really didnt understand how much of an impact oralism had on my language development until Jillio explained this issue. I have the same struggles as you do although I am better now but seeing how my former high school classmates were able to play around with English on FB made me realize how limiting the oral-only philosophy has been on me. It makes me angry that the audists think they have the right to mess around with deaf children like that.
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And I remember that discussion we had. I knew we had made an immediate connection when you did not get defensive and accuse me of attacking your English skills. :giggle: You were open minded enough to take a look at what I was saying, and apply it to your experience. That is one of the things I love about you, and what makes you a problem solver instead of a problem creator.:hug:
 
deafskeptic said:
I remember how I completely missed the symbolism in F. Scott Fitzgerald's The Great Gatsby in my Senior AP English class at MSSD years ago. A Deaf girl who was from a Deaf family picked up on it and explained it to the class. I'm not extremely literal minded but I do miss some symbolism in literary works.

Perhaps that's why I wasn't much into poetry at first. I'm still not really into it even now though I love Emily Dickenson. I think someone posted a poem by her called Because I could not stop for Death in another thread.
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It is no co-incidence that a Deaf of Deaf child got it. Early language exposure.
 
jillio said:
It is no co-incidence that a Deaf of Deaf child got it. Early language exposure.
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And the thing is that she was adopted by her Deaf parents too. I don't think she knew ASL till she was 2 or 3. She's from Korea.
 
deafskeptic said:
And the thing is that she was adopted by her Deaf parents too. I don't think she knew ASL till she was 2 or 3. She's from Korea.
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That is pretty amazing. She had good models for her development despite her early deprivation. And was no doubt one of those kids that once things are in a format they can understand, their development just naturally explodes from the exposure.
 
I very much rather would focus on language development than speech and listening development. That can always come later.
 
jillio said:
And I remember that discussion we had. I knew we had made an immediate connection when you did not get defensive and accuse me of attacking your English skills. :giggle: You were open minded enough to take a look at what I was saying, and apply it to your experience. That is one of the things I love about you, and what makes you a problem solver instead of a problem creator.:hug:
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Awww :hug:
 
shel90 said:
I very much rather would focus on language development than speech and listening development. That can always come later.
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and introduce 2 new curriculums to replace speech and English...with

Hearing Culture and Deaf Etiquette
 
but I'm not sure what you mean when you say it expects kids to live in an eternal speech therapy session, DD. Are you equating the way hearing families in general use spoken language with kids all the time with speech therapy? Because that's what AVT becomes in everyday life -- a deluge of language, in this case, spoken language, in particular. We, too, intentionally surround Li with language, but in our case, it's both sign and spoken language. There's no "therapy" or drilling involved, we just do a lot of communicating, story-telling, reading aloud, interacting, sharing. I think that's what AVT is supposed to be, too. Just without sign, sadly
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Um think about it. You're basicly taking the approach that THE ONLY thing that a dhh kid needs is spoken language, spoken language....and to fix the defict they must concentrate on purposly enriching.....enriching meaning EVERY SINGLE moment MUST BE a language learning experiance. It's not just...." put them in a normal spoken language enviroment. It's basicly oral only on steriods....And Grendel, it is OBVIOUS you are not even hoh. Seriously.....remembering how to use spoken language, pronouning things correctly, and making sure you have proper pitch, volumne, enunication etc IS a speech therapy session!
 
language development than speech and listening development. That can always come later.
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AMEN! Defintily most dhh kids should have the oppertuntity to aquire speech abilty. I think that spoken language is a great tool.......but it shouldn't be the Be All and End All of a dhh kid's life. There is an oral school in the UK that offers a program for kids whose first language is ASL, to come and improve their spoken language skills. Hell...I think that if CID, Clarke etc did something like that, they could increase their enrollment drasticly..........I do think that unfortunatly spoken language instruction can suffer majorly in some programs, especially poorly funded/resourced programs...and that can turn off some hearing parents to Deaf Ed.
 
kokonut said:
Parents are the guardian of their own children. They make the necessary informed decision.
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jillio said:
They make a decision. Far, far too often, it is not an informed decision, because all of the information regarding the implications of that decision have not been provided to them. To believe that parents are getting all of the information prior to making a decision to implant is just naive. They are pushed to make the decision NOW, BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. That goes hand in hand with not being fully informed.
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Yep, doctors tend to push them onto a one-track decision. Doctors are not the only ones to be blamed. The parents also want their kids to hear just like mommy and daddy.
 
Buffalo said:
Yep, doctors tend to push them onto a one-track decision. Doctors are not the only ones to be blamed. The parents also want their kids to hear just like mommy and daddy.
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Do you consider Faire Jour (Miss Kat's Mom) or GrendelQ as having made their own informed decisions on getting a CI for their deaf child?
 
Buffallo, AMEN!!!!!! So much of methodology decision and educational placement is based on the grief of a parent not having a "normal" kid.
Or they believe the docs when they're told that their kid doesn't need ASL and can be mainstreamed and live a "normal" life.
 
kokonut said:
Do you consider Faire Jour (Miss Kat's Mom) or GrendelQ as having made their own informed decisions on getting a CI for their deaf child?
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They share a child? :shock:
 
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