The new deaf generation....speaking and listening

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DeafCaroline said:
The brand of oral deaf education I was raised on was very very anti-ASL and deaf community. I asked my mother why she never taught me ASL and she said because I would not try so hard to learn to speak in order to fit into the hearing world if I had ASL and the deaf community.

The premise was in order for a deaf child to speak well, they must be kept apart from ASL and the deaf community. Entirely.
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Back then they called AVT oral deaf ed today they are difference thank g-d
 
DeafCaroline said:
The kids in the video reminded me when I was young. I was very proud to show off the rewards of my hard work which was speaking well. And I WAS proud. But I could not have known as a child that this wasn't enough and being so aware of how hard my mother worked on teaching me to speak (two hours a day of speech therapy MINIMUM), I would have never publicly voiced any complaints. I mean, before you're filmed, you're kinda prepped to show the public how successful you are so you get the message that that's what you have to present.
As for tone and inflection, you CAN get that with hearing aids. Music was a huge huge part of my speech therapy in that it taught me rhythm and influctuations of tone - I learned to play musical instruments and music was always playing all day long in the house. furthermore, I have the ability to pick up accents and mimick them perfectly. So, it's misleading to imply that only kids with CIs can acquire that ability.
I watched the videos and I got a little pissy at certain comments like "when I learned my child was deaf, I shut down because how am I supposed to communicate with him" or "i thought my child would have to learn sign language, gosh, that means that the family would have to too" or "20 years ago, I would have had to tell you to send your kid to special ed but with cochlear implants, they can go to a normal school" - right off the bat, there's instantly audist slants. Even the description for the first video is misleading "Deaf children learn to speak and LISTEN fluently." That suggests children have perfect hearing with CIs which is definitely not the norm.
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There always seems to be audist views whenever there are articles, videos or blogs about CIs. It is unfortunate.
 
DeafCaroline said:
WHAT?! My stomach just twisted right now. I can't believe this method exists. That sounds so...corporal and 19th century. Do they still use this method nowadays?
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Unfortunately, yes.
 
I just realized after reading that PDF "Communication Approaches Chart" that I was raised AVT. Gawd.

It worked so well that here I am learning ASL and reaching out to Deaf people. ;)
 
DeafCaroline said:
I just realized after reading that PDF "Communication Approaches Chart" that I was raised AVT. Gawd.

It worked so well that here I am learning ASL and reaching out to Deaf people. ;)[/QUOTE]

:lol:
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inmate23 said:
What planet are you living on? AVT does as AVTERS believe that manual communication(including lipreading) would stop the brain connections forming for person to listen through audibility only.

Oral deaf education does NOT preclude sign language outside of its practicing sessions.

your statement corrected

here is great pdf
http://www.ncbegin.org/images/stories/downloads/communication-approaches-chart.pdf
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Open up your mind a little bit.

Here's a story of Deaf parents and their deaf son's CI who use both AVT and ASL.
Deaf Parent's Cochlear Implant Story | Cochlear Implant Online | Hearing impairment

AVT doesn't have to be exclusive in every aspect of a child's day when it comes to communication.
 
but I get the impression when you talk about adult "oral only" deaf people, that you're thinking mainly of people who learned to talk with great effort, never being able to hear themselves or others, and who lip-read extensively. Success (if you call that "success"), was only because of extremely hard work for both the individuals and for their parents, assuming the deaf ones were deaf as children.

Is that right?
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Nope.
Were you aware that even deaf people can be functionally hoh with HAs? Matter of fact, in the old old days Clarke School for the Deaf had 200 kids in their dorms?!?! I think it's something like 10% of deaf kids who can benifit from traditional aiding. We're not talking about kids who learned to talk unaided or with minimal hearing. Yes, there are adults who learned to talk with minimal hearing, but there are also a lot of deaf as kids adults who learned to talk with hearing aids. Profound can mean something like "hears 10% of the spondees unaided, but hears 60 something% aided." you know!
 
posts from hell said:
When you're ignoring him, he is not ignoring you. Its how the system works.

I just elect not to even respond to his "hearing" blogs or threads.
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:hmm: next you are going to tell me people can still see me when I close my eyes!
 
inmate23 said:
In your blog you talk about

F*ck off we MUST. My statement is . One thing I love about living away home is I choose my when and how my "toolbox" comes into play
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As well you should. It is your job to do; you know which tools best suit your task.
 
Oral deaf education does NOT preclude sign language outside of its practicing sessions.

The brand of oral deaf education I was raised on was very very anti-ASL and deaf community. I asked my mother why she never taught me ASL and she said because I would not try so hard to learn to speak in order to fit into the hearing world if I had ASL and the deaf community
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Ummm inmate, this isn't oral deaf education. This is basicly Eternal Speech therapy on steroids. Oral deaf ed is oral Deaf Schools like Clarke and CID etc.
Which are also dwindling in terms of students. Matter of fact, most of the oral deaf schools are now Early Intervention preschools, rather then a real honest to god community. It's now...." gotta get them up to speed, and into the mainstream." They have this unspoken worship of the mainstream, as the Best Placement In the Universe. I find that horrifying. On one hand, it's good that five year olds don't need to go live in the dorms any more. On the other hand, I do think that the oral deaf advocates in the US/ North America have totally and completely forgotten the concept of community. ...they are ALSO clueless about the mainstream and what it's like to live life as an eternal speech therapy session!
 
kokonut said:
Parents are the guardian of their own children. They make the necessary informed decision.[/QUOTE]

They make a decision. Far, far too often, it is not an informed decision, because all of the information regarding the implications of that decision have not been provided to them. To believe that parents are getting all of the information prior to making a decision to implant is just naive. They are pushed to make the decision NOW, BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE. That goes hand in hand with not being fully informed.
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Babyblue said:
Anyways.. regarding to the OP post. I think it is great that early intervention is being taken.

Watching the video I also noticed the accent of the children. Which I find interesting, and awesome. :)

Good to hear some positive things on CIs.
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EI really isn't such a new concept, though. My son went through early intervention services, and there were several deaf children in the program he and I went through, known at the time as Parent/Infant training. Except in the most rural areas where there may not be another deaf person around for miles and miles, it can be pretty safely assumed that all deaf kids are getting EI services unless that parent refuses them.
 
DeafCaroline said:
I posted a comment to say that it's misleading to say "listen fluently" since CIs do not give you perfect hearing and they deleted it. Nice.

secondly, the film was sponsored by for CI companies - not exactly an objective stance. They are clearly pushing the image that a deaf child can only be functional and happy with CIs.

On youtube, I looked at Pipeline's channel to see the info about the films and lo and behold:

PipelineMedia1 Thank you for coming to view our film, LISTEN... I'M SPEAKING, highlighting the benefits of Auditory/Verbal teaching for children born deaf.
Special thanks to our sponsors who made this production possible:
The Graeme Clark Foundation - http://www.graemeclarkfoundation.org
Hear and Say Centre - http://www.hearandsay.com.au
La Trobe University ISP - Institute for Social Participation

Graeme Clark Foundation- The Graeme Clark Foundation aims to ensure that all deaf people can hear and develop their full potential in the world of sound. It is essential that the ground breaking research resulting in the cochlear implant (bionic ear), led by Graeme Clark and developed industrially by Cochlear Limited...

Welcome to the Hear and Say Centre’s website
The Hear and Say Centre is one of the leading Paediatric Auditory-Verbal and cochlear implant centres in the world, teaching children who are deaf or hearing impaired to listen and speak since 1992.

LaTrobe University: Issues of social participation are much-discussed and debated. The Institute for Social Participation (ISP) is committed to better understanding and enactment of the principles of social participation which we (provisionally) understand as the individual’s right to experience self-determined modes of engagement in all aspects of society. Such a definition refers to spheres of possible social engagement (e.g., interpersonal, social, vocational) and to individuals’ health, economic resources and social attitudes.

"Self-determined modes of engagement" - it's not self-determined if the parent determined that for the child.
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So much for parents making informed decisions, huh?:roll:
 
AlleyCat said:
I understood what inmate was saying, grammatically correct or not.
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As did I, which is why I agreed with the fundamental statement he was making regarding rights and choices.
 
deafbajagal said:
AVT = child abuse.
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I agree 100% AVT IS child abuse. Pure and simple. There is nothing wrong with say sending your kid to Clarke so they can learn to talk. But, this constant focus on ensuring a dhh kid can be "normal" is effed up. If you read the ads in Volta Voices they promote AVT as " Your kid doesn't need to learn ASL, Cued Speech or speechreading."
WTF?!?!?! That to me is sad as heck. Why should a dhh kid be trained to ONLY use hearing, hearing and more hearing?
Most of the stuff seen in AVT is used in mainstream dhh ed. It's just that it exclusively focuses on hearing hearing and more hearing, and making sure the dhh kid functions as "normally" as possible. Sure they can hear....but without hearing aids/CIs or good quality health insurance they cannot function without hearing instruments.
 
kokonut said:
They're not saying "listen fluently and speak fluently." The context of it all is about speaking fluently, not "listen fluently" which does not make sense when you consider the definition of the word "fluent." There is no such thing as "listen fluently" because "fluent" means to "express oneself effortlessly." It's already clear on what they meant when they said, "listen and speak fluently."

Fluently - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

fluently - definition of fluently by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
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Yeah, their meaning is abundantly clear. Same old same old being fed to parents at their most vulnerable time.:roll:
 
DeafCaroline said:
WHAT?! My stomach just twisted right now. I can't believe this method exists. That sounds so...corporal and 19th century. Do they still use this method nowadays?
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Not only does it still exist, but early implantation and all the nonsense being communicated to parents has seen a resurgance in techniques using AVT principles.
 
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