the energy that a dhh kid expends on listening

[AlleyCat]

Now that I can agree with, if you're having to rely mostly on speech reading, or relying on it heavily, they need something else, they need ASL, but when you start getting into the lesser degrees of loss, it just isn't AS necessary, seeing the speakers mouth would always be helpful, but not always necessary, at least that was my experience.

The topic of this thread started off as it being tiring to speechread all the time. That got met with a "Meh" from TX and quickly dismissed. (Gee, BIG surprise there.) This then turned into a whole another topic here. I was trying to get back to the basics here in that if you do speechread all the time, it DOES get tiring. We got off track fast right at the beginning, especially when it took place by a poster who doesn't have the experience of speechreading 100% and how tiring it is. Simple as that. But I know you understand, Ambrosia, what I was getting at as far as having to rely on speechreading heavily or all the time.

 

[TXgolfer]

It's becoming a pattern that you're claiming that we all have misunderstood.


incorrect. I am not responsible for your dishonesty and quibbling. This thread is about "the energy that a dhh kid expends on listening" and I asked you a question in that specific context.


you have never answered my question. you've made several feeble attempts to avoid answering my question. would you like to redeem yourself by answering my question?


ok.


You seem to be not interested in engaging a fruitful conversation in how we can make deaf kids perform better in school without having to experience hardship.

Your inaction is the reason why we deaf kids experience hardships. 30 years ago - deaf kids were spanked for using sign languages. there were several methods deemed necessary (which is considered barbaric) to "force" deaf kids into listening and speaking without sounding like a retard. by your logic - these methods are fine as long as their parents thought it's in their best interest.

Your question was answered truthfully. Next time try to ask what you want to ask. Other than that, we disagree. Moving on.

 

[Jiro]

Your question was answered truthfully. Next time try to ask what you want to ask. Other than that, we disagree. Moving on.

that's why I clarified for you and you've never answered that.

as I said before - this thread is about dhh kids being exhausted on lip-reading. so I'm asking you if you have done lip-reading at educational setting as a kid.

no, am I correct?

 

[Babyblue]

Wirelessly posted

I am HOH and I do find it tiresome and frusterating at times. Especially at my workplace, where no ASL is used. Asking people to repeat themselves and hoping you heard or readd their lips right and making sure you understand and knowing what is going on around you. It is all fast paced and believe me! I am exausted and taking my hearing aids out before I even get to my car for the drive home.

 

[TXgolfer]

Wirelessly posted

I am HOH and I do find it tiresome and frusterating at times. Especially at my workplace, where no ASL is used. Asking people to repeat themselves and hoping you heard or readd their lips right and making sure you understand and knowing what is going on around you. It is all fast paced and believe me! I am exausted and taking my hearing aids out before I even get to my car for the drive home.

I definitely see how it might be frustrating. No doubt about that at all.

 

[TXgolfer]

The topic of this thread started off as it being tiring to speechread all the time. That got met with a "Meh" from TX and quickly dismissed. (Gee, BIG surprise there.) This then turned into a whole another topic here. I was trying to get back to the basics here in that if you do speechread all the time, it DOES get tiring. We got off track fast right at the beginning, especially when it took place by a poster who doesn't have the experience of speechreading 100% and how tiring it is. Simple as that. But I know you understand, Ambrosia, what I was getting at as far as having to rely on speechreading heavily or all the time.

I did dismiss that. I view people as individuals and not everyone experiences things the same way. I was also clear in that very first post that I believed it is a weak argument for convincing others. Of course the assumption there was that people wanted to discuss ways to relate struggles to hearing parents.

 

[ambrosia]

exactly what are you against about? teaching ASL for HoH kids?

Where would even get that idea?? I'm not against anything, I'm saying if you're not relying MOSTLY on speech reading its not that tiring, and if you're not profound speech reading may help, you're probably doing it without even knowing it, but you're not concentrating that hard on it, and yes in earlier posts the HoH kids were getting lumped in with the deaf ones. I don't see why this had to get turned into a, well you're late deafened you don't understand issue. I still dealt with the loss, why the hell wouldn't I understand it?

Actually even now speech reading isn't that tiring for me, but I don't spend large amounts of time talking to people

 

[Jiro]

Where would even get that idea?? I'm not against anything, I'm saying if you're not relying MOSTLY on speech reading its not that tiring, and if you're not profound speech reading may help, you're probably doing it without even knowing it, but you're not concentrating that hard on it, and yes in earlier posts the HoH kids were getting lumped in with the deaf ones. I don't see why this had to get turned into a, well you're late deafened you don't understand issue. I still dealt with the loss, why the hell wouldn't I understand it?

Actually for even now speech reading isn't that tiring for me, but I don't spend large amounts of time is tending to people.

then what are you arguing about in here???? lol!!!!

 

[jonnyghost]

You've basically just dismissed the difficulties Ambrosia faced while learning. Learning while dealing with the major life changes of hearing loss, tinnitus, vertigo and so forth all while raising kids and most likely working. Well done!

No one has argued that learning through lip reading or speech reading only is optimal. Only that arguing for other teaching methods simply because lip reading is tiring is not a very convincing argument. There are other arguments that could be much more convincing.

Listening to the teacher was a lot of work for me. With so much brain power going into understand the words they said i had less for what they meant. After a couple hours i was worn out and didn't learn much for the rest of the day. I don't know why this would not be a convincing argument.

I generally don't post in these kinds of threads because my ears hear. I have auditory processing disorder and i understand that is different. However in this case it seems exactly the same and was a big issue for me in school.

 

[TXgolfer]

Listening to the teacher was a lot of work for me. With so much brain power going into understand the words they said i had less for what they meant. After a couple hours i was worn out and didn't learn much for the rest of the day. I don't know why this would not be a convincing argument.

I generally don't post in these kinds of threads because my ears hear. I have auditory processing disorder and i understand that is different. However in this case it seems exactly the same and was a big issue for me in school.

Simple, because most parents will remember that their school days were tiring as well. School/learning is tiring in general. So an argument like this is easy to dismiss as "we'll school is supposed to be tiring.....builds character" no matter whether that is correct or not.

 

[jonnyghost]

Simple, because most parents will remember that their school days were tiring as well. School/learning is tiring in general. So an argument like this is easy to dismiss as "we'll school is supposed to be tiring.....builds character" no matter whether that is correct or not.

I agree with you on that for sure. I got the lazy label. So i guess my question is that it doesn't seem like a good idea to just ignore it. Is there any way to make other people understand?

 

[TXgolfer]

Where would even get that idea?? I'm not against anything, I'm saying if you're not relying MOSTLY on speech reading its not that tiring, and if you're not profound speech reading may help, you're probably doing it without even knowing it, but you're not concentrating that hard on it, and yes in earlier posts the HoH kids were getting lumped in with the deaf ones. I don't see why this had to get turned into a, well you're late deafened you don't understand issue. I still dealt with the loss, why the hell wouldn't I understand it?

Actually even now speech reading isn't that tiring for me, but I don't spend large amounts of time talking to people

It's like I was discussing in the other thread. Some people like to divide a community when one doesn't follow the lockstep thinking. It happens in all minority groups sadly. Your way of thinking is just as valid as anyone else's. Perhaps even more valid since you have experienced and can relate to both "worlds"

 

[ambrosia]

then what are you arguing about in here???? lol!!!!

Haha I'm not meaning to be!!! what I was saying got missed skipped ignored or misunderstood I think and then dismissed as "oh you're late deafened go back in your corner"

Tx was saying it isn't tiring for everybody, I was agreeing with him. My initial point was it depends on HOW much you're having to rely on it, and not everybody relies in it to the same degree.

But just in case I'm completely misunderstanding....dhh is shorthand for deaf and HoH correct? The HoH kids may speech read, but not with same intensity as the deaf ones. I wasn't meaning to argue, just make a point, that no it's not the same for everybody.

But I will add that I don't see anything wrong with giving even the HoH kids ASL, and teaching in it. Just so we're clear I'm not making an argument FOR oral only education.

 

[TXgolfer]

I agree with you on that for sure. I got the lazy label. So i guess my question is that it doesn't seem like a good idea to just ignore it. Is there any way to make other people understand?

Well, like I was saying earlier, I think it would be better to focus on the fact that the child is missing certain parts of the lesson. That's valid and I think parents will get that. But even that is focusing on the negatives. I would focus on the positives. A kid learning 2 languages will have an advantage over a kid with one language. AND many think that once you have learned 2 languages it is easy to pick up more. Things like that. People respond better when you are selling the positives rather than another option's negatives.

 

[Jiro]

Haha I'm not meaning to be!!! what I was saying got missed skipped ignored or misunderstood I think and then dismissed as "oh you're late deafened go back in your corner"

Tx was saying it isn't tiring for everybody, I was agreeing with him. My initial point was it depends on HOW much you're having to rely on it, and not everybody relies in it to the same degree.

But just in case I'm completely misunderstanding....dhh is shorthand for deaf and HoH correct? The HoH kids may speech read, but not with same intensity as the deaf ones. I wasn't meaning to argue, just make a point, that no it's not the same for everybody.

But I will add that I don't see anything wrong with giving even the HoH kids ASL, and teaching in it. Just so we're clear I'm not making an argument FOR oral only education.

whether or not if HoH kids may have hard time lip-reading is irrelevant. in fact - it's non-issue.

we're talking about kids with all kinds of hearing disability having hard time lip-reading so what are we going to do about them? sit and do nothing because we're assuming their parents are making the best possible decisions for them in their best interests?

there's no reason to jump in here and say - "hey.. I didn't have hard time lip-reading". there's absolutely no reason to do that. it's demeaning and trivializing our hardships. just because you (general you) didn't have hard time lip-reading doesn't mean other kids aren't either.

this is very real and extremely concerning. the fact remains that there are deaf/HoH kids having hard time lip-reading and they should not have to do that in schools.

it should be illegal.

 

[Jiro]

Well, like I was saying earlier, I think it would be better to focus on the fact that the child is missing certain parts of the lesson. That's valid and I think parents will get that. But even that is focusing on the negatives. I would focus on the positives. A kid learning 2 languages will have an advantage over a kid with one language. AND many think that once you have learned 2 languages it is easy to pick up more. Things like that. People respond better when you are selling the positives rather than another option's negatives.

I thought you were being neutral? that would mean you are not going to suggest anything or even imply that learning 2 languages is better than one language.

your stance is confusing.

 

[TXgolfer]

I thought you were being neutral? that would mean you are not going to suggest anything or even imply that learning 2 languages is better than one language.

your stance is confusing.

Sorry you feel that way.

 

[jonnyghost]

Well, like I was saying earlier, I think it would be better to focus on the fact that the child is missing certain parts of the lesson. That's valid and I think parents will get that. But even that is focusing on the negatives. I would focus on the positives. A kid learning 2 languages will have an advantage over a kid with one language. AND many think that once you have learned 2 languages it is easy to pick up more. Things like that. People respond better when you are selling the positives rather than another option's negatives.

Hmm, i agree with pushing the positives but i feel like they need to understand that there are real consequences or they might dismiss it to quickly.

 

[shel90]

Because of lipreading, I missed out on so much in the educational setting and so did several of my friends and kids whom I know. Some managed to keep up but most of them struggled and fell behind.

 

[TXgolfer]

Hmm, i agree with pushing the positives but i feel like they need to understand that there are real consequences or they might dismiss it to quickly.

It's the first thing the teach salespeople in seminars. Discussing negatives...even the negatives of the opposition puts the client in a negative frame of mind... Hard to sell like that.