the energy that a dhh kid expends on listening

[Jiro]

See, now THAT is a strong argument. There is a possibility that kids will miss out on stuff by speech reading only. A strong possibility even. That is an understandable and convincing point, one that might sway the judgement of hearing parents.

unfortunately... the reality does not match up to your theory. and you chose to ignore teachers' observations in here.

 

[TXgolfer]

Man, is that completely unrelated to what I said!


But don't let me interrupt you...

It matches up perfectly. Try reading again.

 

[TXgolfer]

unfortunately... the reality does not match up to your theory. and you chose to ignore teachers' observations in here.

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Jiro]

We will have to agree to disagree.

even teachers' professional opinions? hmmm for some understandable reasons.... your opinion does not hold any weight in here especially since you were being dishonest.

 

[TXgolfer]

even teachers' professional opinions? hmmm for some understandable reasons.... your opinion does not hold any weight in here especially since you were being dishonest.

Ah, more trolling. There has been no dishonesty. But yes you are correct that my opinion seems to hold very little weight on these education issues. Perhaps that is why schools are failing. Perhaps if people accepted the advice that "lipreading is tiring" isn't going to be a strong selling point, they could focus on things that resonate with hearing parents. Unfortunately people seem focused on the same failed selling points. Good luck with that.

 

[ambrosia]

because you've never experienced what being deaf is like from birth.

Again, I'm talking about being profound/deaf, but having severe, or even a lesser degree of hearing loss. Even with severe loss you could talk right into my ear, unaided, and I would hear AND understand what you said. That's not deaf, and again, not every child born with hearing loss has loss to that degree.

 

[Jiro]

Ah, more trolling.

yes that's what you've been doing with repeated "we'll agree to disagree" line

There has been no dishonesty.

ok. then let's go back to my question again, shall we? to chose not to answer it is to chose to tell us a white lie.

did you lip-read in an educational setting as a kid?

But yes you are correct that my opinion seems to hold very little weight on these education issues. Perhaps that is why schools are failing. Perhaps if people accepted the advice that "lipreading is tiring" isn't going to be a strong selling point, they could focus on things that resonate with hearing parents.

Unfortunately people seem focused on the same failed selling points. Good luck with that.

that's not what happened in here. you seem to focus on invalidating our opinions and hardships as deaf kids and brush it off as "well yea parents were just doing the best they can".

 

[Jiro]

Again, I'm talking about being profound/deaf, but having severe, or even a lesser degree of hearing loss. Even with severe loss you could talk right into my ear, unaided, and I would hear AND understand what you said. That's not deaf, and again, not every child born with hearing loss has loss to that degree.

deaf. profound/deaf. severe loss. same thing - it's hardship. pretty much majority of child born with any form of hearing loss has experienced communication hardship because of a failed model that hearing people thought it should have worked.

 

[TXgolfer]

yes that's what you've been doing with repeated "we'll agree to disagree" line

Nope, that is a friendly attempt to move on. Sorry you misunderstood.

ok. then let's go back to my question again, shall we? to chose not to answer it is to chose to tell us a white lie.

did you lip-read in an educational setting as a kid?

When you asked the question originally, you left off "as a kid." I am not responsible for your failure to articulate your question accurately. Your question was answered truthfully.

that's not what happened in here. you seem to focus on invalidating our opinions and hardships as deaf kids and brush it off as "well yea parents were just doing the best they can

False. See the comments again, below.

Meh....it's a blog. Just one person's opinion. I have commented before that I do a lot of lip reading and that I don't find it tiring at all. Everybody is different but people who have kids know that normally they are bundles if energy. I don't think getting "tired" will be an issue for most.

Still not taking a side on either type of education...but I think this is a weak argument.

Falling back on "reading lips is tiring" is a weak argument. Meaning, not many people are going to buy that. That's all.

Since "hearing people" are the audience, or people you are trying to convince....it might make sense to listen to which arguments "hearing people" will and will not buy. Just sayin.

Simply giving advice on the narrative and the best ways to convince people. If people don't want to take the advice, that is their prerogative.

 

[AlleyCat]

That's not deaf, and again, not every child born with hearing loss has loss to that degree.

Absolutely correct.

But when we've been talking about the difficulties in listening and HAVING to speechread, we are talking about those kids who were born with hearing loss severe enough that they can't hear the way you described you can. So .. a child who can't hear at all and has to speechread at all times (if ASL isn't being used), it's unfreakingbelievably tiring.

 

[ambrosia]

deaf. profound/deaf. severe loss. same thing - it's hardship. pretty much majority of child born with any form of hearing loss has experienced communication hardship because of a failed model that hearing people thought it should have worked.

It is absolutely NOT the same thing. Have you experienced the full spectrum if the audiogram? Because I have and I'm telling you there is a HUGE difference between having severe loss and having profound loss.

 

[TXgolfer]

deaf. profound/deaf. severe loss. same thing - it's hardship. pretty much majority of child born with any form of hearing loss has experienced communication hardship because of a failed model that hearing people thought it should have worked.

A hardship. In many cases and perhaps most cases....yes.

 

[TXgolfer]

It is absolutely NOT the same thing. Have you experienced the full spectrum if the audiogram? Because I have and I'm telling you there is a HUGE difference between having severe loss and having profound loss.

Yup. There is a tremendous difference.

 

[Jiro]

Nope, that is a friendly attempt to move on. Sorry you misunderstood.

It's becoming a pattern that you're claiming that we all have misunderstood.

When you asked the question originally, you left off "as a kid." I am not responsible for your failure to articulate your question accurately.

incorrect. I am not responsible for your dishonesty and quibbling. This thread is about "the energy that a dhh kid expends on listening" and I asked you a question in that specific context.

Your question was answered truthfully.

you have never answered my question. you've made several feeble attempts to avoid answering my question. would you like to redeem yourself by answering my question?

False.

ok.

Simply giving advice on the narrative and the best ways to convince people. If people don't want to take the advice, that is their prerogative.

You seem to be not interested in engaging a fruitful conversation in how we can make deaf kids perform better in school without having to experience hardship.

Your inaction is the reason why we deaf kids experience hardships. 30 years ago - deaf kids were spanked for using sign languages. there were several methods deemed necessary (which is considered barbaric) to "force" deaf kids into listening and speaking without sounding like a retard. by your logic - these methods are fine as long as their parents thought it's in their best interest.

 

[Jiro]

It is absolutely NOT the same thing. Have you experienced the full spectrum if the audiogram? Because I have and I'm telling you there is a HUGE difference between having severe loss and having profound loss.

let me tell you a huge difference between being born with it and being late deaf.

you don't know jack. that's the huge difference. this thread is about deaf KIDS having hardship in lip-reading at educational setting. if you do not have any experience with that... why are you wasting my time then?

 

[ambrosia]

Absolutely correct.

But when we've been talking about the difficulties in listening and HAVING to speechread, we are talking about those kids who were born with hearing loss severe enough that they can't hear the way you described you can. So .. a child who can't hear at all and has to speechread at all times (if ASL isn't being used), it's unfreakingbelievably tiring.

Now that I can agree with, if you're having to rely mostly on speech reading, or relying on it heavily, they need something else, they need ASL, but when you start getting into the lesser degrees of loss, it just isn't AS necessary, seeing the speakers mouth would always be helpful, but not always necessary, at least that was my experience.

It's just DD likes to paint everybody with a broad brush. Kids with profound loss absolutely need ASL and they should never have to rely on speech trading only. Ever. But she was lumping the HoH kids in with the deaf ones, I was just pointing out the difference in that respect. Seriously communication with severe loss wasn't THAT bad, I didn't think so anyway.

 

[Jiro]

Now that I can agree with, if you're having to rely mostly on speech reading, or relying on it heavily, they need something else, they need ASL, but when you start getting into the lesser degrees of loss, it just isn't AS necessary, seeing the speakers mouth would always be helpful, but not always necessary, at least that was my experience.

It's just DD likes to paint everybody with a broad brush. Kids with profound loss absolutely need ASL and they should never have to rely on speech trading only. Ever. But she was lumping the HoH kids in with the deaf ones, I was just pointing out the difference in that respect. Seriously communication with severe loss wasn't THAT bad, I didn't think so anyway.

very simple - 2 options at once... and HoH kids do not have to use ASL.

the current model is that it's one option at a time and if that option failed.... it's too late.... hence hardship.

 

[ambrosia]

Why do you go back and read ALL the posts in the thread. And when it comes to knowing the difficulties inherent with each level of loss, don't tell me I don't know jack, I lived it. I know first hand the differences. Ridiculous

 

[TXgolfer]

Absolutely correct.

But when we've been talking about the difficulties in listening and HAVING to speechread, we are talking about those kids who were born with hearing loss severe enough that they can't hear the way you described you can. So .. a child who can't hear at all and has to speechread at all times (if ASL isn't being used), it's unfreakingbelievably tiring.

For everyone? The problem with a statement like that is that it sounds to general(even if/when it is 100%true) and human nature tends to dismiss general statements. Hence my disagreements with you know who. The problem with that is that not only do general statements get dismissed, but it can also lead to the next argument being judged with more scrutiny. IMO people arguing for bi-bi programs and things of that nature need to stick with accurate, documentable statements because they are already fighting an uphill battle.

 

[Jiro]

Why do you go back and read ALL the posts in the thread. And when it comes to knowing the difficulties inherent with each level of loss, don't tell me I don't know jack, I lived it. I know first hand the differences. Ridiculous

exactly what are you against about? teaching ASL for HoH kids?