The CI for children issue (My POV)

"They" are so f%$#(*cking wrong about deaf kids learning sign language at any time. When a child gets older without a strong first lagnuage, their ASL never become on par as those deaf children who have had it since birth because their cognitivie process has become impaired due to not having stimulation in their early years. Then, on top of being delayed in ASL (having language deficits), they never develop literacy skills and are basically f**cked for life. Stupid hearing people who think that way and ruin so many deaf childrren's lives. It just makes me so angry.

I think a lot of professionals are speaking out against just what you are talking about.

At JTC, they talked about cognitive development and the affect of long term language deprivation.

At a AG Bell conference, they talked about the same thing. That kids that get CI's and do not get beyond word level, often can't acheive fluency with ASL either because they end up waiting too long.
 
Amusing they're not low-vision as well.

Still drive me nuts that people STILL mix them up with autism nowdays. :\

Tactile sign language should always be provided for deaf-blind children as well.
 
I think a lot of professionals are speaking out against just what you are talking about.

At JTC, they talked about cognitive development and the affect of long term language deprivation.

At a AG Bell conference, they talked about the same thing. That kids that get CI's and do not get beyond word level, often can't acheive fluency with ASL either because they end up waiting too long.

That's the story of many of my students' lives even those who have CIs. I just thank god the parents of the Pre-K class are smart enough to ignore those ignorant professionals and exposed their children to ASL.. as a result, these 4 year olds have abstract thinking skills..whoa!
 
Tactile sign language should always be provided for deaf-blind children as well.

It's not the language I am worried about... it's the misdiagnoses.

I know many got off lucky to have ASL as a language before being diagnosed with low vision AND OR deafness... just because sign language is recommended for autistic folks.

That's messed up. Heh.
 
Tactile sign language should always be provided for deaf-blind children as well.

Exactly! I'm totally deafblind and have been using tactile sign since 1995. Just thought I'd point that out for others who may be unaware of the availability and use of tactile sign. There are also other communication methods that are used as well. My apologies for going off topic.
 
It's not the language I am worried about... it's the misdiagnoses.

I know many got off lucky to have ASL as a language before being diagnosed with low vision AND OR deafness... just because sign language is recommended for autistic folks.

That's messed up. Heh.

Oh that is just so wrong on many levels. Sign language is recommended for autistic children but not for deaf children. My god..how much more BS are we going to read about? Geez!
 
I reread and I don't think I ever said that ASL should be last resort. I said that parents who have had no contact with deaf culture or ASL will not likely look into ASL until they know that there is no way for their child to gain the ability to hear.

Something doesn't work, can it be fixed? No it can't? Okay, what can we do to give my child the best chances at a happy and independent life?

This is when ASL, deaf culture, deaf schools, family learns ASL, freinds learn ASL, Move to a location that better for my deaf child, etc.. will come in to play. I'm not saying this is the only option. Some seem to think I'm against ASL and deaf culture. That's not what I'm saying at all. I myself have been HOH my entire life and Deaf for the past 20 years.

I know that being deaf or HOH does not equal "Broken". But I just feel the first question is, "Something (Their hearing sense) doesn't work, is there a way to make it work?".

I also agree that it would be great if everyone, and I do mean everyone learned ASL. There are a lot of benefits from this beautiful and expressive language that would most likely help everyone in some areas. Especially with communication when they learn to speak (ASL or orally) with more expression to help express what they are saying. So I also never said that people shouldn't learn ASL. I'm saying it's natural for someone to see if something that isn't working can be fixed before they act like they are stuck with things the way they are.

Try to look at it from the point of view of someone who has never meet a deaf person, never heard of deaf culture, never understood ASL.

Take it from someone who's lived in the "Late deafened" or as some call it "Between worlds". In other words I'm deaf but I not part of any deaf culture. My deafness didn't come full force till my late teens when my hearing dropped beyond the help of any hearing aids. If there was a way for me to have my hearing restored to some degree I would have wanted it. I was already established "Outside of deaf culture". I didn't grow up in that culture so I couldn't really fit into it because it was to late. I already had my life (Friends, work, home, etc...). To go be a part of the deaf culture I would have to leave my culture.
 
What parents of deaf children fear, but do not dare verbalize, is that they are afraid that ASL will hinder the child's development of English literacy. Below you'll find an article addressing that issue. Sorry for the long quote but I couldn't link to the article for some unknown reason.



What do you think?Does ASL hinder development of English / Literacy?
3 CommentsBy Longster | Oct.15, 2009 | Filed in: Education, News, Research

For a long time, I have always wondered about that question. I’m not an educator nor have I ever taught the art of language. I did however receive the research paper from someone who wanted to share their findings based on what they have learned in school. I am not going to copy word for word, but I’ll interpret the best of my ability on what I have read.

signLanguageThe citation was originally written by R.B. Wilbur who wrote an article, “The Use of ASL to Support the Development of English and Literacy” in Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education. The article explains the importance of using the first language, ASL, w

Wilbur believes that ASL is a natural language for deaf people. The article explains the two factors to define a natural language, which includes a community of users and babies that can learn from birth. Here’s Wilbur’s comparision with hearing and deaf people’s similarities of natural languages…

“It must be a perfect fit with the perception and production characteristics of the human user, and over time, natural languages evolve to fit the modality in which they are produced and perceived. Obviously, spoken languages are designed to be communicative with ease by people who speak and hear. Similarly, signed languages are evolved to provide easy communication for people who sign and see” (Wilbur, 2000, p. 95).

Other researchers, Susan Easterbrooks and Sharon Baker, also believe that ASL is the most competent visual language for deaf students. With the support of research studies, Wilbur indicates that using ASL as the first language is helpful in developing the proficiency of English with deaf students. It also states that acquiring English is a lot easier for deaf students when they have the first language developed.

According to Wilbur, ASL does have the advantages in performance of cognitive, linguistic, and social skills. Another findings indicate that those deaf children with deaf parents, exposed to ASL, are advanced than deaf children with hearing parents in academic, literacy, English, social, and emotional development (Easterbrooks & Baker, 2002). Shawn Mahshie who is also another researcher had mentioned that children who do not have early first language competence may lack their cognitive and academic language proficiency to do well in school.

Mahshie who specifically quotes, “Sign Language is no longer regarded as a threat to the normal development of deaf children, but rather the best possible guarantee for normal development” (cited as Ahlgren in Mahshie, p. 15). Mahshie clearly emphasizes that the language access is the fundelmental key to developing English.

Another theory by Cummin from Freeman & Freeman, students are able to transfer to the second lanugauge when they are fluent in their first language. Chomsky also theorized that we are born with universal language that we can adapt. This too applies to the fact that, in general, deaf people are born with the natural language.

“The focus should be on the child’s education, which requires communication in a natural language, on which all advanced learning is built. Early knowledge of ASL is a critical part of the solution, not part of the problem” (Wilbur, 2000, p. 100).

Looking back throughout my childhood, teachers had used speech and signed English to develop my first language. I didn’t develop my English proficiency at that time. However, I did gain skills in speech where I could communicate verbally, but my English was nowhere near where I should have been. Majority of deaf students in my classes went through similar situation and they still weren’t able to develop their proficiency in English. It wasn’t until later that I started mainstreaming in regular classes with certified interpreters that used ASL. From that point on, I was able to pick up the concepts and structures of English throughout the classes. Since then, my English had improved dramatically. To this date, I do on occasionally struggle to find the right words to express in proper English. However when it comes to expressing in ASL, I find it liberating since it is my natural language.

Reference

* Easterbrooks, S. & Baker, S. (2002). Language learning in children who are Deaf and hard of hearing: Multiple pathways. Boston: Allyn and Bacon.
* Freeman, Y. S. & Freeman, D. E. (1998). ESL/EFL teaching: Principles for success. Portsmouth, NH: Heinemann.
* Mahshie, S. (1997). A first language: Whose choice is it? Washington, DC: Gallaudet University Pre-College National Mission Programs.

What do you think?
 
Done! I couldn't make the link work. No idea why!
 
What parents of deaf children fear, but do not dare verbalize, is that they are afraid that ASL will hinder the child's development of English literacy. Below you'll find an article addressing that issue. Sorry for the long quote but I couldn't link to the article for some unknown reason.





What do you think?

That is what Jillio and I have been trying to tell some people here on AD for years especially those who hold audist views.
 
"They" are so f%$#(*cking wrong about deaf kids learning sign language at any time. When a child gets older without a strong first lagnuage, their ASL never become on par as those deaf children who have had it since birth because their cognitivie process has become impaired due to not having stimulation in their early years. Then, on top of being delayed in ASL (having language deficits), they never develop literacy skills and are basically f**cked for life. Stupid hearing people who think that way and ruin so many deaf childrren's lives. It just makes me so angry.

It was my grandma who kept fussing at my mom to let us go to a deaf school or class. Or let us learn sign languages. My grandma have 3 deaf sisters(who were sent to a residential deaf schools)and saw how happy and healthy they were compare to us. She saw how communicative her sisters were with their hearing children compare to my mom's communication with us. She saw a big difference. My grandma can be mean, but she usually know what she is talking about.
 
Glad your procedure went well. Good luck.



Being the hearing parent of a deaf-born child, I have to say I am the polar opposite of this description. The moment they told me she'd failed her first hearing test at 3 days old, "Oh my god... FIX IT" wasn't even in my mind. My first thought was "How will I talk to my baby?" and I hit the web looking for ASL resources and support. I purchased 2 books the day we came home from the hospital... an ASL text and a book on Deaf culture. THEN I started learning about amplification. I did a LOT of research and asked 100s of questions. My daughter was aided a few days short of 4 months old and that's when I tackled the topic of deaf education. Now, at almost 3, we've discovered further loss and are upgrading her HAs. We are planning to make the necessary changes (new jobs, moving) so that she can attend WSD when she's a little older. We are exposing her to the Deaf community and learning about Deaf culture so we can support her and be part of her "life as a Deaf person".

I never saw ASL as a second option or settling. I NEVER considered not using it in our home. I am only sorry it took me this long to learn it.



I absolutely disagree. ASL is necessary for EVERY child with a hearing loss, regardless of degree. At the end of the day, when the HAs, processors and whatnot come off, they are deaf/HH. They MUST be able to effectively communicate 24/7, amplified or not, regardless of how well their amplification of choice works for them. Even with perfect speech, they should know how to read ASL so that they have access to communication when they are unaided. If nothing else, it's a matter of safety. I think this is one of the biggest issues I have with some parents relying on CIs to 'fix' broken ears. Sure, little Bobby hears just fine with his CI, but that's gonna do a fat lot of good when he's in the middle of the pool. NOT teaching a deaf/HH child ASL is doing the child a HUGE disservice.

As for Deaf culture, why shouldn't it be taught, especially to deaf/HH kids? Why not to EVERY child? Maybe, just maybe, attitudes toward the d/Deaf would change if people were better educated. We have Black History month... Hispanic Heritage month... a bazillion other cultures getting 'special attention'. I say it's about time for the Deaf to get their turn.


I too am a hearing parent of a deaf child, however my child is profoundly deaf and was implanted over 20 years ago.* When our daughter lost her hearing due to meningitis we began to learn as much as possible about deafness as we had no personal experience with it until then.* Our research, the deaf people we met and the professionals we talked to led us in a different direction then the one you have chosen but I think you can appreciate that our goals are most likely the same: to act in the best interests of our children.*

I point this out because you used the word "fix" in connection with cochlear implants and you should know that to parents, such as myself, who took our parental obligations and responsibilities seriously in making the cochlear implant decision for our child, that is an offensive term.* We understood that our daughter was deaf before having her implant and would be so afterwards. I did not have to "fix" my daughter as she was perfect both before and after her implant, however we did choose to give her the opportunity to access sounds that might possibly lead to her being able to understand and acquire spoken language skills. The implant did indeed give her the access to those sounds she was incapable of hearing with her hearing aids and for her, has had a tremendous and immeasurable impact upon her life.

I hope that as you continue along what can be a wonderful journey with your child, you do not fall into that group that believes that the choices they made for their child are the only "right" ones and the ones that all parents of deaf children should make.* Rather, I hope that you keep an open mind and recognize that there is no one way or "best" way to raise any child, even a deaf one.* Each deaf child and each family is unique and that the goal is to act in the best interest of the child.

One final comment-I find the pool example amusing.* It is used so often one would think that each year scores of ci children not only drown but that their lives could have been saved by their parents standing outside the pool signing to them instead of swimming to their rescue!

Well turn around is fair play.* You mentioned little Bobbie with his ci, what about little Robbie who does not have one and who turns his back on his parents and runs into the middle of a busy street? What "fat lot of good" will his parents' ability to sign do for him once he is beyond their reach and has his back to them?* I sure hope they can run fast!

Instead of attempting to put down parents who have chosen the implant for their child, why not try to understand that for many of them they invested the same amount of time, effort, consideration and emotions into their decision for their child as you did for yours.
Rick
 
Well turn around is fair play.* You mentioned little Bobbie with his ci, what about little Robbie who does not have one and who turns his back on his parents and runs into the middle of a busy street? What "fat lot of good" will his parents' ability to sign do for him once he is beyond their reach and has his back to them?* I sure hope they can run fast!

mmm.... I had hearing aids way before CI came out... and no amount of calling my name is not going to stop me (not that I ever understand someone is calling me anyway. I still have cashiers running after me when I left my keys behind... but I usually notice it myself that I forgot the key before they caught up with me) but that goes with anyone little kids who are not old enough to look after themselves. I didn't even trust my hearing son to run off and listen to stop when I ask him to stop. That's too dangerous. The day he was mature enough know stop mean stop was the day he is old enough to look after himself (like looking both way).
 
mmm.... I had hearing aids way before CI came out... and no amount of calling my name is not going to stop me (not that I ever understand someone is calling me anyway. I still have cashiers running after me when I left my keys behind... but I usually notice it myself that I forgot the key before they caught up with me) but that goes with anyone little kids who are not old enough to look after themselves. I didn't even trust my hearing son to run off and listen to stop when I ask him to stop. That's too dangerous. The day he was mature enough know stop mean stop was the day he is old enough to look after himself (like look both way).

My hearing kids didnt stop when I call out to them when they were younger so the argument is moot, really.
 
btw, My mom must been a bad mama... I used to run off to my neighbor house all the time and on the side of the road all the time and I was under 8 years old.. luckily, we lived out in the rural area where there are very little traffics. but I knew how to look after myself, I knew from a very young age I needed to be visual to be safe.
 
It's really tacky to come to a deaf board and relate hypothetical stories about deaf children being injured because they are deaf. Have you thought about how that insults a deaf person? Like a deaf person is incompetent to rear her own children or that she might get hit by a car herself. Your attitude sucks.

What is with the asterisks? You have no footnotes and they are just distracting.
 
It's really tacky to come to a deaf board and relate hypothetical stories about deaf children being injured because they are deaf. Have you thought about how that insults a deaf person? Like a deaf person is incompetent to rear her own children or that she might get hit by a car herself. Your attitude sucks.

What is with the asterisks? You have no footnotes and they are just distracting.

He has been doing it for 3 years and would attack me and others for telling him the same thing you told him. It is beyond ridiculous.
 
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