Texas Board Passes Social Studies Curriculum

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jillio said:
Value judgement?
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No more than your post.

The Kennedy family did have a lot of money, right?

Besides, I'm not teaching a class.
 
Jiro said:
don't need religion to teach about value judgment. for example....
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That's why I included atheist and humanist. That was just a sampling.
 
Reba said:
That's why I included atheist and humanist. That was just a sampling.
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if it's public school - it should be taught like that.
if it's Catholic school - it should be taught with religious component.

right?
 
Reba said:
No more than your post.

The Kennedy family did have a lot of money, right?

Besides, I'm not teaching a class.
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How is having a lot of money a value judgement? My post was a statement of fact. No value judgement contained therein. However, you perceived one, didn't you? Just as you intended one with your post. We are all aware of your feelings re: the Kennedy family, so value was implied. Now, tell me you can keep all value judgement out of your communications with students. Impossible.
 
jillio said:
Fine. Go into a classroom and teach instead of interpret. Abide by curriculum standards. Interact with your students and promote discussion to get them thinking for themselves. And then tell me you have not once, in all of that interaction and imparting of information, done something that would imply a value judgement.

As I said, it is an impossible task, and those who keep demanding it are those that have spent zero time educating.
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I've never demanded any such thing. I simply pointed out that there is value judgment involved.

Yet, when that value judgment is based on conservative Judeo-Christian beliefs that in itself gets judged by others.

If the value judgment is based on liberal or progressive humanist beliefs (as an example) then it's lauded.

That seems pretty two-faced to me.
 
Reba said:
I've never demanded any such thing. I simply pointed out that there is value judgment involved.

Yet, when that value judgment is based on conservative Judeo-Christian beliefs that in itself gets judged by others.

If the value judgment is based on liberal or progressive humanist beliefs (as an example) then it's lauded.

That seems pretty two-faced to me.
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h, so then you are fine with the coloring book that included "good" in the title referencing MLK?

As if values of other cultures and religions don't get judged as equally? Puh-leeze!
 
Jiro said:
if it's public school - it should be taught like that.
if it's Catholic school - it should be taught with religious component.

right?
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Why? Are most public school students professed atheists?

Shouldn't they get more than one viewpoint?

Are only atheist or humanist teachers going to be hired?
 
Huh?

How does atheism imply neutral?

The problem with public school is that you will have people that hail from twenty different churches, temples and so on all attending the same school.
 
Reba said:
Why? Are most public school students professed atheists?

Shouldn't they get more than one viewpoint?

Are only atheist or humanist teachers going to be hired?
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public school = government = separation of church and state.

teachers of all religions can be hired as long as the viewpoint is not predominantly religious. I would find it wrong if the science teacher at public school preaches about "intelligent design" more than evolution theory.
 
jillio said:
How is having a lot of money a value judgement? My post was a statement of fact. No value judgement contained therein. However, you perceived one, didn't you? Just as you intended one with your post. We are all aware of your feelings re: the Kennedy family, so value was implied. Now, tell me you can keep all value judgement out of your communications with students. Impossible.
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My statement was as factual as your statement. The Bush family has a lot of money, and the Kennedy family has a lot of money; their family members attended Ivy League schools. So?

We are all aware of your feelings for the Bush family (not to mention the smilie in the statement), so value was implied.

I never said that I could keep value judgments out of a classroom, if I were a teacher. I would be up front with them and let them know what my values were and why. I wouldn't pretend to be unbiased and then sneak in the bias.

[BTW, since we're throwing around the word "judgment" so much you might want to take out that extra "e".]
 
Jiro said:
public school = government = separation of church and state.

teachers of all religions can be hired as long as the viewpoint is not predominantly religious. I would find it wrong if the science teacher at public school preaches about "intelligent design" more than evolution theory.
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Got one question,

Is it equally wrong for them to preach evolution theory more than "intelligent design"?
 
souggy said:
Huh?

How does atheism imply neutral?

The problem with public school is that you will have people that hail from twenty different churches, temples and so on all attending the same school.
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Personally, I don't believe atheism is neutral. Atheists have value judgments, just as any other group does.

With all those different beliefs out there, should we assume that teachers don't have biases?
 
Reba said:
My statement was as factual as your statement. The Bush family has a lot of money, and the Kennedy family has a lot of money; their family members attended Ivy League schools. So?

We are all aware of your feelings for the Bush family (not to mention the smilie in the statement), so value was implied.

I never said that I could keep value judgments out of a classroom, if I were a teacher. I would be up front with them and let them know what my values were and why. I wouldn't pretend to be unbiased and then sneak in the bias.

[BTW, since we're throwing around the word "judgment" so much you might want to take out that extra "e".]
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I'd prefer to leave it in, thank you.

The point has been made. Nothing can ever be value neutral when imparting information and interacting with others. Cannot be done. Period. So everyone needs to get a grip, and realize if your teacher implies something is good when you believe it isn't correct it when the kid gets home, and get on with your life.:roll:
 
Secretblend said:
Got one question,

Is it equally wrong for them to preach evolution theory more than "intelligent design"?
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Ummm.....there is scientific and empirical evidence to support the teaching of that theory. It is a teaching of scientific fact, not a belief system.
 
souggy said:
You do know that evolution theory can part of intelligent design?

Ask John Paul II about that.
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Why is it that people fail to realize that the two can be reconciled?
 
Jiro said:
public school = government = separation of church and state.

teachers of all religions can be hired as long as the viewpoint is not predominantly religious. I would find it wrong if the science teacher at public school preaches about "intelligent design" more than evolution theory.
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That's interesting that you use "preaches" instead of "teaches" in that reference.

Also, "wrong" is a value judgment, correct? Would it be legal? Should legality be the determinant of right and wrong values? Questions! :hmm:

Separation of church and state means that the government cannot establish a state/national church or interfere with the religious practices of the people. It doesn't mean that religious people have to stifle themselves.
 
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