Tax between Europe and any countries in the world

[Reba]

One more question, I ask you about US public holidays (example about 4th July).

Did Government pay Public holiday for you? I mean that you get free time off for US public holiday without take day leave annual or from overtime?

If people work for the government, they get paid holidays. If they work for private businesses, some get paid holidays, some get holidays without pay, and some get no holidays. Each company has a different policy.

Hubby and I get no paid holidays (no work, no pay). My son-in-law gets no holidays (no time off). None of us gets annual leave or overtime.

When Hubby and I used to be in the military, we got all the paid holidays.

 

[DeafSCUBA98]

i get paid holidays.. 6 times a year.. thanksgiving, christmas, new years eve, memorial day, july 4th, labor day

my parents don't get holiday pay.. however they do (so-called) get paid because they're on a salary income.. means u get same paycheck every 1st and 15th of the month doesn't matter how many hours u work..

 

[Reba]

... Yes, I would call it "donation" because they support jews alot as they can than they does for Germans victims.

So you mean the Germans voluntarily give money for the Jews?

You did not know what kind of church/graveyard Jews had in Germany. I know because I saw it myself.

I know that the Nazis used Jewish cemetery grave stones for paving roads. The Nazis drove their vehicles over, and walked over the grave stones of Jewish families.

I feel that you know a little.
German Government already support jews ALOT as they can.
Yes, the children, grandchlidren/great-grandchildren demand more and more from German government. All what they said to Government that they has the right to claim for their parents, grandparents/great-grandparents. Why should they get money from German taxpayer which they are not born at that WWII time?

The Jews just want back the property that was stolen from them. The Nazis stole there houses, land, businesses, art work, gold, antiques, etc. If the Nazis had not stolen those things from the grandparents, the grandchildren could have inherited them. But the Nazis stole it, so now it has to be paid back. The grandparents are dead, so naturally it has to be paid back to their heirs, the grandchildren. Germany profitted from the Jewish property, so it is fair now to pay it back.

Yes, many jews live and work in Germany. Some of them are not jew reglious and very nice people.

Do you mean the religious Jews are not as nice as the non-religious Jews?

I think you don´t understand. We are for the suvivors, NOT their children, grandchildren/great-grandchildren. Why should we carrying on pay them which they didn´t suffer in camping where their family generations suffered?

Unfortunately, there weren't as many survivors as there were victims. Many orphans and widows were left behind. I think growing up alone, without any family or home, is suffering.

I think it is interesting how you refer to innocent people suffering torture and slaughter as "camping".

Why you blame only Catholics and Protestants, not other beliefs?

I was answering your question, "Why can't they make church taxes to improve their churches etc like what catholic & protestant did?
It wasn't German Hindus and Muslims that killed the Jews.

I blame nobody but Hilter times because they only do what Nazi said.

Right...That excuse didn't work at Nuremburg either.

Quote: Although I know some Jews don't want German "blood" money.

Really? It´s new to me.

With how many Jews have you discussed this topic?

 

[kuifje75]

Whoa, this is going off-topic with anti-German sentiments. First of all, this is about taxes, so if you want to discuss about the roles of Germans and their responsibilites to the Jewish population, then may I suggest that white Americans start taking their responisbilites to give reparation payments to the African American population for stealing them from their homelands, forcing them into slavery and so on? No African American has received any reparation pay as far as I know, except for some who received some property willed to them through their slave owners.

Should we bear the responsibilities to support the African American descendants of their slave ancestors with reparation because of all the cruel things we did to the slaves? This is history, and the same thing goes for the Jewish in Holocaust. I grew up with Jewish population in New Jersey, and many of my classmates in my German class were Jewish. I cannot imagine why Reba would perceive Jews as hating the Germans as she implies them to. I agree with Liebling, Jewish people are forgiving and moving on.

As for the reparation payments, I think it is enough to pay the survivors and their children, but not the grandchildren and so on. Can you imagine 6 million tortured, then each of them had 10 offsprings. You would have to be paying reparations to 60 million grandchildren? I know that it is not as simple as that, however I think it is ridiculous. There are some countries who never received any reparation payments from Germany such as Czech and Slovak Republics, but I imagine that it might be because their communist government had been preventing them from seeking for that. I might be wrong.

Also, not just the Jewish population suffered through this, but also the political prisoners (Hans and Sophia Scholl, Swinger Kids, Edelweiß, communists, etc...), Gypsie and Romanis, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.... all suffered through the Nazi Regime machine. And to blame the catholic or evanglische Church! Hitler was not religious and he wanted people to esteem him as "God." The Nazi Party never really liked any religious groups, but they had to "work" an image that they indeed were religious, so that religious people would support the Nazi Party. It's called propaganda. Kind of like what the US government is doing to their citizens today about the Iraq question today.

Anyway, enough of this off topic. As for taxes:
In New Jersey, many food and clothes were tax-free. You are right, Reba, food such as candies, soda, etc are taxed cos they are not really "needed" for health. Food like eggs, milk, flour, etc... are not taxed at all. In Utah, I never really figured it out.

Liebling, your question about paid holidays...

Yes, I do get paid for holidays, even if I do not work on that day. Normally, I work Wednesday to Saturday, and Fourth of July, for example, was on Monday this year. So I get paid an extra 8 hours for Fourth of July, making it a 48 hours week for me. If I had worked on Monday, I would have received 2 1/2 times the pay, plus full 8 hours vacation time to be used on other day.

 

[Reba]

Sorry that this is getting :topic:

I am trying to understand fully the reasoning for the German church taxes. Liebling was "shocked" that Americans don't support churches thru taxes. I am equally "shocked" that Germans do support churches thru taxes, and only certain churches at that. It is a very different philosophy from the American concept of separation of church and state.

Just to set the record straight:

...I cannot imagine why Reba would perceive Jews as hating the Germans as she implies them to.

I never stated nor implied that Jews hate Germans. I cannot speak for the Jews' feelings as individuals or as a group.

And to blame the catholic or evanglische Church!

I didn't blame the churches; I was replying to a specific question.

 

[kuifje75]

Sorry that this is getting :topic:

I am trying to understand fully the reasoning for the German church taxes. Liebling was "shocked" that Americans don't support churches thru taxes. I am equally "shocked" that Germans do support churches thru taxes, and only certain churches at that. It is a very different philosophy from the American concept of separation of church and state.

It's not really tax money supporting the church, but rather donations. You really do not have to donate any money to German churches. The only reason why it goes through government, I assume, is for the government to know how much a Church earns in donations.

Another thing though:
When you move to Germany, or to a new town, you have to register yourself with the local police. The green papers (Anmeldungspapier) has "religion" on it, and you can answer what religion you are. Then if you give money for the "Church taxes", the government will know which church your money belongs to. As if a resident was a muslim, then the German government will give the Church money to the Muslim organisation. When I was in Germany, I just wrote "Nichtglaubiger" so that I wouldn't have to deal with any church taxes.

Just to set the record straight:

I never stated nor implied that Jews hate Germans. I cannot speak for the Jews' feelings as individuals or as a group.

Liebling said:
We are not allow to visit jew's churches/graveyard because we are not jew reglious.

Reba said:
I can't imagine why not. :rme:

Your use of :rme: certainly implied some kind of tone.

 

[Reba]

... The only reason why it goes through government, I assume, is for the government to know how much a Church earns in donations.

But the government knows only how much Protestant and Catholic churches get. Why do they need to know that, and why do they not need to know that about the other religions?

...As if a resident was a muslim, then the German government will give the Church money to the Muslim organisation. ..

According to Liebling, the German govt. gives money only to Protestant and Catholic churches.

Your use of :rme: certainly implied some kind of tone.

What is ":rme:"; I couldn't find it in the smilies box.

 

[kuifje75]

Geez Reba, I guess you're being either dense or not paying attention. I guess you didn't read the whole thing I said. Do I need to show you what an Anmeldungsformular looks like?

And if you want to be smarty pants, :rme: means :roll: as in rolling my eyes.

 

[Reba]

Geez Reba, I guess you're being either dense or not paying attention. I guess you didn't read the whole thing I said. Do I need to show you what an Anmeldungsformular looks like?

And if you want to be smarty pants, :rme: means :roll: as in rolling my eyes.

I'm sorry, I guess I am dense because the only smilies I know or use are the ones in the reply to thread "box". I didn't know ":rme:" meant the same as ": r o l l :". I looked in the smilies box and I couldn't find it.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I'm sorry, I guess my questions were not clear. I will try to rephrase them.


I know that you said that Catholics and Protestants were most popular. What I want to know is, what is the reason for the government supporting relgions and churches? Why is that the government's responsibility? Why do the churches accept that?


But why is the government involved? Why don't the people just give their money directly to the churches that they want to support?

Pay church taxes are voluntary. You can apply for withdraw from church tax if you want to.

The reason I support church with church tax because the church renovation are not cheap. Where should the priests earn? Who clean in the church? Who take care of church?

Support with money to church is not enough to meet church costs. You know that churches renovation/building are not cheap.

I know what I am saying because I used to work in London for 5 years with no church taxes. All what I saw that some of churches "begged" the government for the money to improve their churches and get people to support money. Support money is NOT enough to financing the churches. It took government ages to support them because the government has no money to improve their churches...

I has to admit that I was shock when I saw church tax on my monthly wage slip and got my hubby explain me why. I understand why and compare British and Germany system and has to agree with German system.

How many people pay church taxes around Germany? The money thru church taxpayers help to finance the church renovation, building, etc than get support from the people. Some of Germans taxpayers do support with money to their churches voluntarily.

Government are on the responsibly to take care of enivornment to make sure that they are clean and well take care.

Is "Evangelisch/Protestant" a religious denomination in Germany? What is their doctrine? In the U.S., many churches (such as Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopal) are called "Protestant" but there is no Protestant denomination or church. It is just a generic grouping of denominations that resulted from the break with the Catholic Church. Do you actually have a Protestant denomination in Germany? I thought Lutheran churches were popular in Germany because Martin Luther started the Reformation in Germany.

Yes, we have many Lutheran-Evangelisch churches around here because of Martin Luther but we still call "Evangelisch" instead of use the word "Lutheran-Evangelisch".

No, it's not denomination like what I told you in my previous posts that Evangelisch (Protestants) are different as British and US.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Kuiji75, you said this wonderful

*sigh* Reba! I felt that you twisted my word. I am trying to make clear here.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

So you mean the Germans voluntarily give money for the Jews?

I would say YES because jews received the support from Germans SOON after WWII instead of "later".

I know that the Nazis used Jewish cemetery grave stones for paving roads. The Nazis drove their vehicles over, and walked over the grave stones of Jewish families.

The Jews just want back the property that was stolen from them. The Nazis stole there houses, land, businesses, art work, gold, antiques, etc. If the Nazis had not stolen those things from the grandparents, the grandchildren could have inherited them. But the Nazis stole it, so now it has to be paid back. The grandparents are dead, so naturally it has to be paid back to their heirs, the grandchildren. Germany profitted from the Jewish property, so it is fair now to pay it back.

*sigh* I see all what you are speaking for jewishs. I'm not speak for only jews but other people, too what the Nazi did to them.
Yes, the Nazis also stole Germans's property to use for road/autobahn building and things, too. The Nazis has the power and do what they want with their people, not just that jews. Got it?

Do you mean the religious Jews are not as nice as the non-religious Jews?

*sigh* :roll: I never say anything bad about religious. I only say that non-relgious jews are nice BECAUSE I know them.

Unfortunately, there weren't as many survivors as there were victims. Many orphans and widows were left behind. I think growing up alone, without any family or home, is suffering.

I think it is interesting how you refer to innocent people suffering torture and slaughter as "camping".

That's what I mean is AFTER WWII, the survivors married and born the children and then go on............ Why should the children of survivors get the rights from us? Nope because their parents already receive everything from German government.

Yes, the children get the rights as survivors only if they lost their parents to Nazi and camping.

As far as we know that alot of children went with their parents to camping and killed there.

I was answering your question, "Why can't they make church taxes to improve their churches etc like what catholic & protestant did?
It wasn't German Hindus and Muslims that killed the Jews.

The reglious during Hilter time are not acceptance like what K75 mentioned. What I told you in my previous post that I blame NOBODY but they only do what Nazi want them.
Your post got me anger because you spoke for only jews, not other people. Of course Germans SUFFERED thru Hilter time. All of Germans screamed with happy when WWII are over... They are happy to be free from Nazi time...
My hubby's mother told me sad story about Nazi time that's time she had through when she was 11 years old.

With how many Jews have you discussed this topic?

I was surprised that you denied my post for jewishs. Yes, they ask for more and more... I withness myself thru medias, TV etc. The German government found out that some of jewish are fraud because they were not in camping or they did not lost their parents to Nazi, etc. It got stop unless they have proof which it was happened at long time ago. The children/grand-children and go on still fighting to get the rights as "heir" because their survivor generation were in camping... Nope... It's not them, but survivors.

I would like to remind you that it's not only jews who spent in camping but other people, like reglious, etc. too.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Sorry that this is getting :topic:

I am trying to understand fully the reasoning for the German church taxes. Liebling was "shocked" that Americans don't support churches thru taxes. I am equally "shocked" that Germans do support churches thru taxes, and only certain churches at that. It is a very different philosophy from the American concept of separation of church and state.

No, I'm not shock over that. See what I said in my earlier post.

I know what I am saying because I used to work in London for 5 years with no church taxes. All what I saw that some of churches "begged" the government for the money to improve their churches and get people to support money. Support money is NOT enough to financing the churches. It took government ages to support them because the government has no money to improve their churches...

but I am only "shock" because you said that Church taxes in America is illegal. I was like wow because support from people for the church renovation are not enough... It's not cheap to renovate the churches...

Just to set the record straight:

I never stated nor implied that Jews hate Germans. I cannot speak for the Jews' feelings as individuals or as a group.

I didn't blame the churches; I was replying to a specific question.

Yes you speak for jewish, not other people and blame catholic and protestant some of your earlier post.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

But the government knows only how much Protestant and Catholic churches get. Why do they need to know that, and why do they not need to know that about the other religions?

I see why not? Government take care of his people and enviornement. The people from church tax office need to know how much each churches need to be repair, renovation, etc. etc. etc. etc. what priest need etc. etc. All what the priests do is get the application to get money for his needs. They paid churches thru church taxpayers.

According to Liebling, the German govt. gives money only to Protestant and Catholic churches.

The catholic and protestant got support THRU church taxpayers.
Muslims and other beliefs don't get from government but they collect money from charities/donation etc.

I would remind you that church taxes are voluntarily here in Germany.

I support church tax because of children's future. They will get something from priests's blessing is confirmation, wedding, funerals with no extra costs because we are member of church taxpayers. We (taxpayers) can donate churches if we want to.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Anyway, everyone, thank you for sharing your interesting posts over taxes, public holiday etc. with us here.

I can't beleive that taxes in America are very low than in Europe... wow...

The government paid all of German Public holidays for employees/civil servants.

I use both US and German Public holidays because I work for US Army. We only have US Public Holiday only if we are agree to work 40 hours a week instead of 38,5 hours a week with only German Public holiday. We are for 40 hours a week. They paid for us.

 

[kuifje75]

http://www.religiousfreedom.com/Conference/Germany/warnke.htm

This is an interesting read on Church taxes in Germany.

http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives/012999/012999f.htm
Church taxes in Europe

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1168497,00.html
Germans leaving the church to avoid Church taxes

Keep in mind that this is purely voluntarily. People of other faith other than Protestant and Catholic are not required to pay Church taxes. That is why it is important to declare your religion on the Anmeldesformular (city residency registeration paper?). My status as Nichtglaubiger (non-believer) made it clear that I don't participate in the Church.

 

[kuifje75]

Interesting article:
http://www.freedommag.org/english/spegerm/page18.htm

Church taxes was a product of the Nazi Party in order to pacify the Churches about the activities of the Nazi Party.

 

[Reba]

...The reason I support church with church tax because the church renovation are not cheap. Where should the priests earn? Who clean in the church? Who take care of church?

How come the church members themselves don't take care of their church?

Support with money to church is not enough to meet church costs. You know that churches renovation/building are not cheap.

Yes, I know how expensive church renovation is. This summer our church must pay $80,000 to replace part of the parking lot. We also monthly support almost 90 missionary families all-over the world. Our church has 272 member families, and we pay for everything ourselves. I church would never accept government money.

I know what I am saying because I used to work in London for 5 years with no church taxes. All what I saw that some of churches "begged" the government for the money to improve their churches and get people to support money. Support money is NOT enough to financing the churches. It took government ages to support them because the government has no money to improve their churches...

I believe what you say. I just am curious why churches "beg" government for money. It is not the responsibility of governments to support churches. If a church is important to God's people, they will take care of it themselves. The best thing the government can do is keep "hands off".

If the churches can't support themselves, maybe they should close.

 

[Reba]

Yes, we have many Lutheran-Evangelisch churches around here because of Martin Luther but we still call "Evangelisch" instead of use the word "Lutheran-Evangelisch".

No, it's not denomination like what I told you in my previous posts that Evangelisch (Protestants) are different as British and US.

What is the doctrine of the Evangelisch/Protestant church? How are the beliefs different from British and U.S.? We have three missionary families in Germany, so this is interesting to me.

 

[Reba]

No, I'm not shock over that. ..but I am only "shock" because you said that Church taxes in America is illegal. I was like wow because support from people for the church renovation are not enough... It's not cheap to renovate the churches...

I was referring to this statement:
"Not allow? How could the priest get the money to improve/renovate their churches?"