Survey of Bi-Bi programs - Empirical Article

[jillio]

U are talking about the home environment and we are talking about the educational environment.

U are right, children are even put at higher risks for failing if their families arent supportive but to even create more obstacles in the educational setting for these children doesnt help matters at all. That is why it is important that the educational setting gives the children the same rights as hearing kids get when being educated in the educational setting. Yes, there are hearing children who fail because their familes arent involved but then again, these same hearing children arent put in a linguistically-restricted environment when they go to school. It is the responsibility of the teachers and administrators to make the educational setting fair, fully acessible, and safe for all children.

That's is where I am to the argument here.

Exactly!!!! If they are not getting a linguistically supportive environment at home, it is all the more important that they get it at school. To continue the deprivation in the home in a school envirnment increases the risk.

 

[vallee]

No, dear, you don't get it. And no offense.

I do get what Cheryl is discussing.

 

[vallee]

Hmm..I'm curious about this though. I went to a TC school. The differences I feel that my school is not 100% TC because not EVERY single student spoke or was forced to speak. Majority of them did, but many don't.

I do find it a bit odd that there's so much diversity with the students. Many are fluent in ASL, but have poor English literacy skills. Many are fluent in Sign Language and excellent literacy skills (not ASL, because now that I'm seeing that it's not really a true ASL..more of mixture between ASL and PSE). Many are fluent in English skills, but poor at ASL or any type of sign language.

Who's at fault for not having all the students at the same level? Teachers? Parents? Students?

I believe all three are to be blamed at some level.

I agree with you on this

 

[shel90]

I can't make a generalization, but I support parents in the education of their children. I do believe in including parents and educating parents with ideas to do at home. Education is 24 hours, not bus to bus.

Yes, I agree and that's why I wish many parents of Deaf children would learn ASL but since I cant force them to do it, I can offer different ways of helping their children despite the communication barriers between the parents and the children.

I have a student with a CI who does well on one-on-one basis using spoken language and she is able to communicate with her parents using spoken language at home just fine ..however, she cant understand everything being said at all times so she has to work harder to ensure that she is understanding her parents at all times at home and sometimes, misunderstandings happen between her and her parents and I have to remedy it when the misunderstanding happens during homework time cuz she comes to school misunderstanding something about homework cuz she thought her parents said something else so I have to explain to her via ASL that is not how to do it and she would finally understand but at least her parents try to help her.

Too often, we have parents who do not help at all and end up doing the children's homework for them cuz they dont want to put the effort into sitting with their child for a substainal time to help/guide them with their homework and its too bad cuz the children learn codependency fast.

I wish for a perfect world when it comes to parental involvment with their children's educational progress but I am happy to say that a majority of our students' parents do try even if they arent fluent in ASL.

 

[shel90]

Hmm..I'm curious about this though. I went to a TC school. The differences I feel that my school is not 100% TC because not EVERY single student spoke or was forced to speak. Majority of them did, but many don't.

I do find it a bit odd that there's so much diversity with the students. Many are fluent in ASL, but have poor English literacy skills. Many are fluent in Sign Language and excellent literacy skills (not ASL, because now that I'm seeing that it's not really a true ASL..more of mixture between ASL and PSE). Many are fluent in English skills, but poor at ASL or any type of sign language.

Who's at fault for not having all the students at the same level? Teachers? Parents? Students?

I believe all three are to be blamed at some level.

If I am to be blamed for the education situation for many deaf children, I do try my best to provide a fair and accessible educational environment for all of my students so nobody gets left out to what's going on in the classroom.

 

[vallee]

Yes, I agree and that's why I wish many parents of Deaf children would learn ASL but since I cant force them to do it, I can offer different ways of helping their children despite the communication barriers between the parents and the children.

I have a student with a CI who does well on one-on-one basis using spoken language and she is able to communicate with her parents using spoken language at home just fine ..however, she cant understand everything being said at all times so she has to work harder to ensure that she is understanding her parents at all times at home and sometimes, misunderstandings happen between her and her parents and I have to remedy it when the misunderstanding happens during homework time cuz she comes to school misunderstanding something about homework cuz she thought her parents said something else so I have to explain to her via ASL that is not how to do it and she would finally understand but at least her parents try to help her.

Too often, we have parents who do not help at all and end up doing the children's homework for them cuz they dont want to put the effort into sitting with their child for a substainal time to help/guide them with their homework and its too bad cuz the children learn codependency fast.

I wish for a perfect world when it comes to parental involvment with their children's educational progress but I am happy to say that a majority of our students' parents do try even if they arent fluent in ASL.

We have the same situation, many parents do the homework for the children. It is easier than teaching the children at home. I try to send home the work that can be done independently. Not always the case.

If the world was perfect then we would not be having these discussions. It is not.

 

[LadySekhmet]

How many times, on this very board, do we see people complaining that they have problems with ASL because they are attempting to process it as an oral language, and therefore, cannot understand the syntactical and conceptual differences. When they learn to process it as a visual language, those difficulties disappear. It is the same in reverse for oral languages.

I totally 100% agree with this. I learned Sign Language. I can communicate with ANY deaf person, however I do not possess the ability to speak in ASL. My brain is Hearing (per se), so I hear things in English syntax, not visually. When I talk to my deaf friends, I rarely NOT use my voice. I have tried to drop my voice and just close my mouth, but I find that very difficult because my thinking process is English.

There are many words/slangs that I do sign in ASL such as "train-go-sorry", etc. I do not add "ing" or "ed" to words, I don't sign 'the', 'is' etc.

So, do I regret not learning ASL? No. This was the environment that I was raised in. It doesn't prevent me from communicating to both deaf and hearing, so I'm happy with having the ability to communicate in both worlds.

 

[shel90]

We have the same situation, many parents do the homework for the children. It is easier than teaching the children at home. I try to send home the work that can be done independently. Not always the case.

If the world was perfect then we would not be having these discussions. It is not.

Yea...I hate to send home homework not challenging enough for my students but even if I do, some of their parents will do it for them cuz the kids have gotten so used to getting their homework done for them and would throw tantrums giving their parents a difficult time at home until their parents give in. It is a vicous cycle so one of these days my students will be in high school and will require to do more complex homework so I am curious to see if their parents will spend hours and hours doing a research project for them? That would be interesting to see. Sad, heh? I am trying to educate the parents on that but like I told Cheri, I cant dictate on what goes on in their household.

 

[LadySekhmet]

If I am to be blamed for the education situation for many deaf children, I do try my best to provide a fair and accessible educational environment for all of my students so nobody gets left out to what's going on in the classroom.

Oh I agree...I'm not saying ALL teachers are to be blamed. There's some teachers that sucks.

Some teachers try to teach us at a lower "grade" level as hearing peers, and I find that insulting to our intelligence. There's a very small group of deaf people that learned Shakespeare in HS. The rest, learned "Where The Red Fern Grows", or some 5th to 8th grade books when they're Seniors. Some of the teachers have very awkward sign language skills and it's an impediment.

Other teachers I absolutely love.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

That's all I want..just tired of seeing so many older deaf children come to our program with thinking skills of a 5 year old because they didnt have full access to an appropriate model of language. To me, it couldnt be more simplier but if others disagree, I have no problem with it. I am still sticking by my beliefs and opinions. Oh well.[/QUOTE]

And, you should, Shel. It may be that oral works well for some children. It also may be that TC works well for some children, but it's got to be tough, when you see truly bright children struggling simply because they don't have a strong L1 language.

I feel for you.

 

[shel90]

Just wanted to clarify something

I wanted to let everyone know that I do not think I am a perfect teacher and that yes, I have made mistakes with my teaching in the past and I do my best to reflect on what teaching strategies didnt work and try to modify them to ensure that all of my students benefit from them. Not all teachers are perfect but as a teacher, I feel responsible for creating an educational environment that is 100% accessible to all deaf/hoh children so they wont be put at disadvantages due to not having full acess to all the important things in the educational setting. That's how I think and I dont think anything will change that. As for now, the BiBi approach is showing that for any deaf/hoh children regardless of their dB levels, family background, and whether they are implanted or not and I am sticking with it until another approach is created that solves all the problems with Deaf education. I guess that would take stem cell research for curing deafness to really to do the job.

 

[shel90]

Oh I agree...I'm not saying ALL teachers are to be blamed. There's some teachers that sucks.

Some teachers try to teach us at a lower "grade" level as hearing peers, and I find that insulting to our intelligence. There's a very small group of deaf people that learned Shakespeare in HS. The rest, learned "Where The Red Fern Grows", or some 5th to 8th grade books when they're Seniors. Some of the teachers have very awkward sign language skills and it's an impediment.

Other teachers I absolutely love.

 

[shel90]

That's all I want..just tired of seeing so many older deaf children come to our program with thinking skills of a 5 year old because they didnt have full access to an appropriate model of language. To me, it couldnt be more simplier but if others disagree, I have no problem with it. I am still sticking by my beliefs and opinions. Oh well.[/QUOTE]

And, you should, Shel. It may be that oral works well for some children. It also may be that TC works well for some children, but it's got to be tough, when you see truly bright children struggling simply because they don't have a strong L1 language.

I feel for you.

Oh, it is what burns me inside. I cant even describe it. Thanks though.

 

[Cheri]

I can't make a generalization, but I support parents in the education of their children. I do believe in including parents and educating parents with ideas to do at home. Education is 24 hours, not bus to bus.

Thank you...

 

[Cheri]

Hmm..I'm curious about this though. I went to a TC school. The differences I feel that my school is not 100% TC because not EVERY single student spoke or was forced to speak. Majority of them did, but many don't.

I do find it a bit odd that there's so much diversity with the students. Many are fluent in ASL, but have poor English literacy skills. Many are fluent in Sign Language and excellent literacy skills (not ASL, because now that I'm seeing that it's not really a true ASL..more of mixture between ASL and PSE). Many are fluent in English skills, but poor at ASL or any type of sign language.

Who's at fault for not having all the students at the same level? Teachers? Parents? Students?

I believe all three are to be blamed at some level.

Exactly!!! That was my point I was trying to make.

 

[vallee]

Now since it has been discussed the blame. What works? What strategies benefit deaf children? If the same can't be for all, then what overall strategies or educational practice works? What gives deaf children with CI (since this is the thread discussion) the best success in school?

 

[shel90]

Now since it has been discussed the blame. What works? What strategies benefit deaf children? If the same can't be for all, then what overall strategies or educational practice works? What gives deaf children with CI (since this is the thread discussion) the best success in school?

Just like any deaf children with HAs, deaf children with CIs have varying degrees of "success" with the devices. For teaching strategies, as I said before, each deaf child has differewnt learning styles and a teacher must emply different teaching strategies to meet each learner's needs in theclassroom. The language of instructuion should be the language that all deaf/hoh children have full accesa to and since we know that we never know which child would fully benefit from their implant so to safegauard from any child being left out, the lang7uage of instruction shud be visual and can be used abstractically to promote critical thinking skills. The visual language would be ASL/BSL/FSPL/SSL? Auslan not invented and false language systems. Hearing kids r instructed in their natural languages and why can't deaf children too? Once language of instruction has been establshed then each teacher has to decide based on the students they get each year what teaching strategies to employ in their classroom. Not each deaf ed classroom is the same except for the language of instruction.

Since I see children with CIs who weren't able to pick up on spoken language fully like their hearing counterparts too, it is safe to assume that we would never know which child would fully benefit from his/her CI.

Iam thinking of safehuarding against language deprivation first and then I will foc7us on teaching strategies next.

Excuse me if u see errors with my typing..i8am walking on the treadmill and using my pager to access to AD.

 

[vallee]

What about the children with CI that are successful in mainstream education. Do we remove them from oral to introduce ASL? Should ASL be introduced as a support or what is your opinion. Or can oral education be encouraged if the child is being successful?

 

[vallee]

Shel do an extra mile for me.

 

[jillio]

Just like any deaf children with HAs, deaf children with CIs have varying degrees of "success" with the devices. For teaching strategies, as I said before, each deaf child has differewnt learning styles and a teacher must emply different teaching strategies to meet each learner's needs in theclassroom. The language of instructuion should be the language that all deaf/hoh children have full accesa to and since we know that we never know which child would fully benefit from their implant so to safegauard from any child being left out, the lang7uage of instruction shud be visual and can be used abstractically to promote critical thinking skills. The visual language would be ASL/BSL/FSPL/SSL? Auslan not invented and false language systems. Hearing kids r instructed in their natural languages and why can't deaf children too? Once language of instruction has been establshed then each teacher has to decide based on the students they get each year what teaching strategies to employ in their classroom. Not each deaf ed classroom is the same except for the language of instruction.

Since I see children with CIs who weren't able to pick up on spoken language fully like their hearing counterparts too, it is safe to assume that we would never know which child would fully benefit from his/her CI.

Iam thinking of safehuarding against language deprivation first and then I will foc7us on teaching strategies next.

Excuse me if u see errors with my typing..i8am walking on the treadmill and using my pager to access to AD.

Exactly. If safeguards are in place to prevent the language delays that are inherent in a "wait and see" approach, these students will not suffer the types of delays that are carried forward.