Survey of Bi-Bi programs - Empirical Article

[shel90]

Exactly. TODs by and large, are on board with the bi-bi philosophy. Those professionals who work with large populations of the deaf, and specifically with young deaf children, are on board regarding the bi-bi philosophy. They have seen the failures of TC, they have conducted research into the reasons behind the failures of TC, and have reached very logical and very practical conclusions. Likewise, they have seen the successes of an educational environment that subscribes to a bilingual-bicultural environment.

The ones that are the most vocal are those that are employed in the mainstream, are guided by adminsitrative policies that do not account for the needs of the deaf student, and instead, attempt to apply general special education methods intended for a variety of learning difficulties to the deaf student. The majority of deaf students do not have learning disorders, nor are they cognitively impaired. The function, intellectually, on par with their hearing peers when they are provided the linguistic environment that addresses their linguistic needs. Methods intended to address the needs of students with cognitive impairments are not effective because the deaf student is not congitively impaired. It is the environment that creates their liguistic delays, not the functioning of their brains.

And that is what I see year after year with so many older deaf children who are delayed in language development and critical thinking skills ..not because of problems with their congnitive processing but because they were denied full approrpiate access to language to be able to develop language like their hearing counterparts do.

I dont know how else to say it but yes, there are some successes but what about those who were failed by the educational system? I guess I want all deaf children not to be put at risks like that. That's just me.

The educational philosophy of trying out different approaches with deaf children until finding the one that works for them is just too risky as evidenced by the numerous kids who grow up struggling with literacy skills.

As for parents knowing what's best for their children...they can have that opinion but too often, many many parents out there do not know much about deafness nor deaf education and what the child really needs. Most of the time, they are looking from a hearing perspective. Yes, there are many who understand the deaf needs of their deaf children but there are soo many more who do not. Who is responsible for providing equal access to education in the educational setting? The teachers? I want to provide an educational environment where all deaf/hoh children have equal access to language, education, information, and communication at all times.

 

[Cheri]

Then please explain why it is, after 30 years of TC, deaf students are still performing on an academic level less than their hearing peers. Why haven't literacy rates increased? Why are we still seeing people educated under the auspices of TC with a less than functional grasp of English or ASL, and those that bring those difficulties into their adulthood? I would suggest that you delve into some of the actual research on the topic rather than relying on websites.

What do you think? There are many deaf children grow up in homes where they do not share the same language with their parents, and you just sit here and blame the program for the failure of deaf children? Just like how parents blame the teachers for the failure of their children. Children are not in school 24/7..

 

[jillio]

Where is the data and research on this statement? We can all make generalizations about programs. The point is it is damaging to post these generalizations as research based and not show the research.

Also I never said that special education applies to deaf education. More and more deaf students are being mainstreamed with support services. The special educator is the person in the schools who unless there is a full time tod then the sped assist in program teaching. I have a child with a BAHA on a 504 that I work with this year.

In regard to your first question, the research and data are out there. I have, in fact, forwarded such in email to several members of this forum that are concerned about education for the deaf student.

Re: your second paragraph, those services being provided are based, by and large in the mainstream, on the philosophy of special education, not on deaf education. Special educators are not trained in the specifics of deaf education. A deaf child, unless multi-diagnosed, is not in need of special education services. They are completely capable of functioning on an intellectual level the same, or superior to, their hearing peers, provided they are given the proper linguistic atmposphere. Thje mainstream attempts to used remediation, and remediation would not be necessary given the proper linguistic atmosphere. Then, they attempt to remediate using the same techniques that created the need for remediation in the first place.

 

[jillio]

Do you feel that even if a parent makes an educated choice. They researched and still chose the educational environment as oral, then they are wrong? If they chose differently then what you feel is the only way, are they wrong? Are parents wrong even if they know the options, discuss the options, develop an educational placement with other educators, doctors, audies, and student then they are wrong if they chose oral or CIs?

First of all, I believe from a professional and personal perspective, that an oral only environment places a deaf child at risk for underachievement and delayed psycho-social development, as well as developmental delays related to the internalization of language.

Secondly, it does not have to be a matter or oral only or CI. It can be CI with the linguistic environment that best supports the deaf students needs.

It would depend, largely, on the parents' motivation and reasoning for their choices. And it is you that keeps using the word "wrong", not me. Do I believe that some choices are more beneficial to the deaf student's academic and psycho-social functioning? Yes I do. And I have valid reasons for my belief and can support them with sound evidence.

 

[jillio]

What do you think? There are many deaf children grow up in homes where they do not share the same language with their parents, and you just sit here and blame the program for the failure of deaf children? Just like how parents blame the teachers for the failure of their children. Children are not in school 24/7..

And that is exactly what TC is all about Cheri. Unshared language.

If TC were successful in creating the most beneficial linguistic atmosphere educationally, we would have seen consistent improvements in the academic functioning of deaf children from these programs. We have not.

 

[shel90]

What do you think? There are many deaf children grow up in homes where they do not share the same language with their parents, and you just sit here and blame the program for the failure of deaf children? Just like how parents blame the teachers for the failure of their children. Children are not in school 24/7..

Who is responsible for providing the education for Deaf children in the educational setting? The parents? Are they in the classroom teaching different people's children with various learning styles, various literacy levels, and etc, etc? No, unless they are teachers themselves and that would mean they are responsible for other people's chidlren as well.
The teachers are responsible for providing the education at the educational setting so we are responsible for ensuring that each and every child has equal access to everything in the educational setting. That is what we are talking about. I am speaking as a teacher, not as a parent.

What happens at the home is another subject and we can create a thread about it.

 

[jillio]

That's all I want..just tired of seeing so many older deaf children come to our program with thinking skills of a 5 year old because they didnt have full access to an appropriate model of language. To me, it couldnt be more simplier but if others disagree, I have no problem with it. I am still sticking by my beliefs and opinions. Oh well.

Exactly. And it all comes back to one basic concept...the brain processes visual language differently than it processes oral language. You cannot simply add visual cues to an oral language, and then expect a child to process it as a visual language when it is linear in syntax. It is a very basic principle, and one that is consistently overlooked.:roll:

How many times, on this very board, do we see people complaining that they have problems with ASL because they are attempting to process it as an oral language, and therefore, cannot understand the syntactical and conceptual differences. When they learn to process it as a visual language, those difficulties disappear. It is the same in reverse for oral languages.

 

[shel90]

And that is exactly what TC is all about Cheri. Unshared language.

If TC were successful in creating the most beneficial linguistic atmosphere educationally, we would have seen consistent improvements in the academic functioning of deaf children from these programs. We have not.

Of course, if TC showed that, then I would be gladly adopt the TC philosophy. I just use what has proved to work the best for a majority since I cant do oral/TC/BiBi/CS all at once in the same classroom. Hearing teachers of hearing kids do not do that. They use one universal language that all of their hearing students have equal access to. Guess deaf children do not have the same rights? For me, I want to create a classroom just as parallel as a hearing classroom full of hearing students. I think all deaf children deserve that since they arent in need of special ed teaching approaches designed for children with conginitive disabilities.

 

[Cheri]

Who is responsible for providing the education for Deaf children in the educational setting? The parents?

both! the parents and teachers.. You can't just throw your child in school and not teaching or helping a child at home, it doesn't work that way. My sister happen to be a teacher she vents out about parents all the time for not particulate with the child's education. Yes, she has some kids in her class that are failing, because the parents won't help their own child.

 

[jillio]

Of course, if TC showed that, then I would be gladly adopt the TC philosophy. I just use what has proved to work the best for a majority since I cant do oral/TC/BiBi/CS all at once in the same classroom. Hearing teachers of hearing kids do not do that. They use one universal language that all of their hearing students have equal access to. Guess deaf children do not have the same rights? For me, I want to create a classroom just as parallel as a hearing classroom full of hearing students. I think all deaf children deserve that since they arent in need of special ed teaching approaches designed for children with conginitive disabilities.

Bingo! And it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not these students use a CI or an HA. It has to do with using their natural strengths to provide them with an educational atmosphere that gives them an equal chance of success.

 

[Cheri]

And that is exactly what TC is all about Cheri. Unshared language.

So is bi/bi, You think all hearing parents know ASL? You wish.

 

[jillio]

So is bi/bi, You think all hearing parents know ASL? You wish.

Parents don't have to know it. We are talking about an educational environment, not a home environment. Abi-bi home and a bi-bi classroom are two different subjects. And bi-bi is not about an unshared language. It is about a shared language that is accessible 100 % of the time for a deaf child. Shared between students, peers, and teachers, as well as administrators and staff members.

And yes, I do wish that all hearing parents of deaf children made the effort to learn ASL. It would be a huge benefit for their child. (even though your remark was intended as sarcasm).

 

[shel90]

both! the parents and teachers.. You can't just throw your child in school and not teaching or helping a child at home, it doesn't work that way. My sister happen to be a teacher she vents out about parents all the time for not particulate with the child's education. Yes, she has some kids in her class that are failing, because the parents won't help their own child.

Well, that's another issue that also needs to be addressed and yes, it is a problem but I cant force parents to change how they raise their children at home. I wish I could sometimes but I cant do that. Just like I say it is none of my business if parents implant their children...what happens at the home is where I have no business dictating.

However, in the educational environment for deaf children, I can take control of what happens in my classroom and after years of experience with different approaches, I saw that all of the kids I have encountered with had equal access to everything just like hearing children in public schools do and I loved that. It made me so excited to see so many deaf children freely communicating with everyone and anyone at all times whether it was in the classroom, in the playground, and etc etch without any barriers. They can just be themselves but I know that not in every educational setting provides those opportunites due to all these controversities. I just want the best and most linguistically enriched educational environment for all deaf/hoh children. So far, the BiBi atmosphere has be able to provide that.

My good friend who is deaf in CA who works in a mainstreamed program as a teacher finally convinced the administrators to start a BiBi program for her deaf students and she said this year, many hearing kids are becoming a part of it. I think that is so great! She also said that one of her deaf students made the cheerleading squad and guess what? Both her deaf student and few of the hearing cheerleaders are fluent in both languages..ASL and spoken English. I was AMAZED!

And what do u mean by not particulate in the child's education...do u mean "by not participating in the child's education?" Just wanted to make sure I am reading you right. Thanks

 

[shel90]

So is bi/bi, You think all hearing parents know ASL? You wish.

Jillo wishes? I didnt know that she has already answered your question that fast.

True, I wish but I know it is not realistic but we are talking about the educational environment, not the home environment. If u want to talk about the home environment, I would be glady to talk about that as well but I know I cant do much about that cuz I cant dictate what goes on in each family's home. I have no right to do that.

 

[jillio]

both! the parents and teachers.. You can't just throw your child in school and not teaching or helping a child at home, it doesn't work that way. My sister happen to be a teacher she vents out about parents all the time for not particulate with the child's education. Yes, she has some kids in her class that are failing, because the parents won't help their own child.

Which is all the more reason for the child to have the most beneficial environment at school.

 

[Cheri]

Parents don't have to know it. We are talking about an educational environment, not a home environment. Abi-bi home and a bi-bi classroom are two different subjects. And bi-bi is not about an unshared language. It is about a shared language that is accessible 100 % of the time for a deaf child. Shared between students, peers, and teachers, as well as administrators and staff members.

And yes, I do wish that all hearing parents of deaf children made the effort to learn ASL. It would be a huge benefit for their child. (even though your remark was intended as sarcasm).

You don't get it... You never do. I'm most sure that vallee and rockdrummer would have a better understanding what I mean. no offended.

 

[jillio]

You don't get it... You never do. I'm most sure that vallee and rockdrummer would have a better understanding what I mean. no offended.

No, dear, you don't get it. And no offense.

 

[shel90]

You don't get it... You never do. I'm most sure that vallee and rockdrummer would have a better understanding what I mean. no offended.

U are talking about the home environment and we are talking about the educational environment.

U are right, children are even put at higher risks for failing if their families arent supportive but to even create more obstacles in the educational setting for these children doesnt help matters at all. That is why it is important that the educational setting gives the children the same rights as hearing kids get when being educated in the educational setting. Yes, there are hearing children who fail because their familes arent involved but then again, these same hearing children arent put in a linguistically-restricted environment when they go to school. It is the responsibility of the teachers and administrators to make the educational setting fair, fully acessible, and safe for all children.

That's is where I am to the argument here.

 

[vallee]

both! the parents and teachers.. You can't just throw your child in school and not teaching or helping a child at home, it doesn't work that way. My sister happen to be a teacher she vents out about parents all the time for not particulate with the child's education. Yes, she has some kids in her class that are failing, because the parents won't help their own child.

I can't make a generalization, but I support parents in the education of their children. I do believe in including parents and educating parents with ideas to do at home. Education is 24 hours, not bus to bus.

 

[LadySekhmet]

Then please explain why it is, after 30 years of TC, deaf students are still performing on an academic level less than their hearing peers. Why haven't literacy rates increased? Why are we still seeing people educated under the auspices of TC with a less than functional grasp of English or ASL, and those that bring those difficulties into their adulthood? I would suggest that you delve into some of the actual research on the topic rather than relying on websites.

Hmm..I'm curious about this though. I went to a TC school. The differences I feel that my school is not 100% TC because not EVERY single student spoke or was forced to speak. Majority of them did, but many don't.

I do find it a bit odd that there's so much diversity with the students. Many are fluent in ASL, but have poor English literacy skills. Many are fluent in Sign Language and excellent literacy skills (not ASL, because now that I'm seeing that it's not really a true ASL..more of mixture between ASL and PSE). Many are fluent in English skills, but poor at ASL or any type of sign language.

Who's at fault for not having all the students at the same level? Teachers? Parents? Students?

I believe all three are to be blamed at some level.