Survey of Bi-Bi programs - Empirical Article

[shel90]

I might add "knowledgeable" to "good" parents. From what I have seen in 35 years in an educational setting (not as a teacher, tho), those knowledgeable parents are pretty rare. Therefore, "the teachers are the experts" will more than hold sway because it is what they do for a living. Good teachers who got their degrees 25 years ago, attend ongoing workshops, classes, etc to keep abreast of what's best for the students.

This is no means to indicate that the parents are ignored; in fact, the parents are the ones who have all the power in an IEP meeting but if they are not knowledgeable, they pretty much defer to a team of teachers' recommendations for their sons and daughters. In a nutshell.....

I agree...it is not that I dont want nor value parents' input...after all I rely on them heavily to know what's happening with their children so I can understand why their children have bad days or whatever. However, they dont understand how to teach a classroom full of diverse learners until they have experienced it themselves.

 

[jillio]

If you are talking about the educational setting, specifically, the IEP meeting and related meetings before or after, parents certainly are consulted and depending on how knowledgeable they are, everything offered via educational strategies are explained in a way for parents to be enlightened and engage in the decision-making.

And, in my experience, parents often choose not to participate, but to simply accept whatever is recommended, and sign the IEP as written by the home school district.

 

[Daredevel7]

And, in my experience, parents often choose not to participate, but to simply accept whatever is recommended, and sign the IEP as written by the home school district.

Jillio, is this something you do not want out of the parents? I'm only asking because I'm wondering if parents DO participate, are they interfering with your expertise? When I say participate, I'm not talking about gaining knowledge and keeping posted on the child's progression. I'm talking about actually participating with the child's educational development and having specific inputs on how the child is taught. Is this good or bad to you, in your opinion?

 

[Angel]

And, in my experience, parents often choose not to participate, but to simply accept whatever is recommended, and sign the IEP as written by the home school district.

"In your experience" Are you saying you used to be a teacher?

 

[jillio]

Jillio, is this something you do not want out of the parents? I'm only asking because I'm wondering if parents DO participate, are they interfering with your expertise? When I say participate, I'm not talking about gaining knowledge and keeping posted on the child's progression. I'm talking about actually participating with the child's educational development and having specific inputs on how the child is taught. Is this good or bad to you, in your opinion?

Absolutley not. I serve as an advocate for the deaf student. I encourage parental participation. I detest it when parents don't even show up for an IEP meeting, for the simple reason that a very large portion of the public school systems will offer only minimum services that do not fully address a child's needs, or, instead of providing remedial services, will simply alter the grading scale to overlook things like grammar and spelling errors on English assignments. Personally, I think this does an extreme disservice to the deaf student, and simply passes them through the system rather than doing what is necessary to provide accommodations that allows for them to be educated at the same level as their hearing peers. That is but one example. Parents very much need to be involved, and to refuse to accept lowered standards, or placement and accommodation that does not address the student's needs. Parents need to be educated regarding what is available to them and their child, and what can specifically address specific needs. That is what I do. Many parents are not even aware that they do not have to sign an IEP that they disagree with. In the mainstream, very few of the recommendations come from a TOD, but are from a general special ed. teacher who has no edcuation or experience in the education of deaf students. As a result, the proper accommodations are not written into the IEP. If a parent does not know what is available and what their child's rights are, the IEP is simply accepted, and the school is off the hook. Very few parents know that they can refuse an IEP and request due process in front of an administrative law judge if the school refuses an accommodation requested. Very few parents know that they can request a review of the IEP, or a new IEP meeting at any point in time during the school year. Very few parents realize that, if the accommodations they have agreed to do not appear to be benefiting their child, they can request re-evaluation and an amended IEP. Parents need to know these things, and this is the information I provide for them. I am there to represent the child's and the parent's best interests. And I do not do so without input directly from the parents and the child themselves.

 

[Daredevel7]

Wow, Jillio, thanks for your thoughtful answer!
It is sad how some parents are either uneducated about what's out there or simply don't care enough to be fully involved. My dad would have been one of those people who just wouldn't know what to do and just go with the first recommendation and let the "experts" take care of it.

Luckily my mom was there!

 

[jillio]

Wow, Jillio, thanks for your thoughtful answer!
It is sad how some parents are either uneducated about what's out there or simply don't care enough to be fully involved. My dad would have been one of those people who just wouldn't know what to do and just go with the first recommendation and let the "experts" take care of it.

Luckily my mom was there!

Very lucky for you, indeed. The way you described your mother, I can tell you she is the type of parent that makes an advocate's job easy. That type of parent wants to provide input, is eager to learn, and wants any information they can get their hands on that might, in some way, benefit their child. It is all about empowerment...first for the parent, and then for the deaf student as they move through the system and learn to advocate for themselves.

And you are quite welcome.

 

[shel90]

Wow, Jillio, thanks for your thoughtful answer!
It is sad how some parents are either uneducated about what's out there or simply don't care enough to be fully involved. My dad would have been one of those people who just wouldn't know what to do and just go with the first recommendation and let the "experts" take care of it.

Luckily my mom was there!

My parents were like your dad...they had no clue so they let the "experts" take care of it. I dont harbor any ill feelings towards my parents but it just shows that there are so many situations like mine still out there.

 

[jillio]

My parents were like your dad...they had no clue so they let the "experts" take care of it. I dont harbor any ill feelings towards my parents but it just shows that there are so many situations like mine still out there.

You are absolutely right. It is not about blaming a parent. It is about advocating for the deaf child until they are old enough and have been taught the skills to advocate for themselves.

 

[Tousi]

You are absolutely right. It is not about blaming a parent. It is about advocating for the deaf child until they are old enough and have been taught the skills to advocate for themselves.

Yeah, dogone it, you bet your bippy dat's right! :P

 

[jillio]

Yeah, dogone it, you bet your bippy dat's right! :P

You crack me up!

 

[rockdrummer]

It isn't a matter of not having opinions. Let me try to put this another way. Why do you use an audiologist? Because they possess expertise in a given area. You can have opinions and input regarding their findings, but you still consult them for their expertise.

Why do you use a CI surgeon rather than a General Surgeon? Because of their expertise with CI surgery. You can have an opinion, and you can offer input, but when it comes right down to the wire, you rely on their expertise.

When it comes to Deaf Education, why would you rely on someone without that particular expertise. It is just as important as the expertise of the CI surgeon or the audiologist. We all choose professionals based on their expertise. A specialist in Deaf Ed is a professional. That doesn't mean that you don't have input. It simply means, that as in the other situations, they have training and experience that is valuable and outside the experience of someone who is not in the field.

Except the problem is that with regard to deaf ed there is not a concensus. So which of "the experts" in the field of Deaf Ed is a parent to believe? The fact that deaf ed is surrounded by controversy and a lack of concensus is exactly what causes concerned parents to have to take the time to research. And yes they can become experts without experience. You don't need experience to be an expert. You can become expert with adequate knowledge.

 

[rockdrummer]

I've never claimed that. And no one here is claiming to be the only knowledable person. Expertise requires more than knowledge.

No it doesn't

 

[jillio]

Except the problem is that with regard to deaf ed there is not a concensus. So which of "the experts" in the field of Deaf Ed is a parent to believe? The fact that deaf ed is surrounded by controversy and a lack of concensus is exactly what causes concerned parents to have to take the time to research. And yes they can become experts without experience. You don't need experience to be an expert. You can become expert with adequate knowledge.

Nor is there a consensus in audiology or surgery. Deaf ed is surrounded with controversy because those who are supposed to be benefitting are showing several indications that is not the case.

There is, however, a majority who are trained in the specifics of deaf ed, and those who have spent their lives studying cognitive and educational psychology as applied to the deaf, that support a certain philiosophy based on the lifetime of knowledge they have gained from practical application.

Knowledge without the ability to apply, or to critically evaluate, does not confer expertise. It merely means that one can memorize.

 

[rockdrummer]

Nor is there a consensus in audiology or surgery. Deaf ed is surrounded with controversy because those who are supposed to be benefitting are showing several indications that is not the case.

Those are highly subjective statements. You mean SOME that are suppose to be benefitting show indications that is not the case. There are also some that show indications that there is benefit. That is why there are success stories from varying approaches. One size does not fit all.

There is, however, a majority who are trained in the specifics of deaf ed, and those who have spent their lives studying cognitive and educational psychology as applied to the deaf, that support a certain philiosophy based on the lifetime of knowledge they have gained from practical application.

And those would be the pople that should be proving their philiosophies through studies conducted within proper protocol and publishing the scrutinized peer accepted findings so that parents can use that information to support a given approach. BiBi programs have not proven themselves as the best for the majority. Please show me an accepted study that shows they have.

Knowledge without the ability to apply, or to critically evaluate, does not confer expertise. It merely means that one can memorize.

Knowledge and memorization are mutually exclusive. If you can't apply or critically evaluate then you don't have knowledge.

 

[jillio]

Those are highly subjective statements. You mean SOME that are suppose to be benefitting show indications that is not the case. There are also some that show indications that there is benefit. That is why there are success stories from varying approaches. One size does not fit all.

And those would be the pople that should be proving their philiosophies through studies conducted within proper protocol and publishing the scrutinized peer accepted findings so that parents can use that information to support a given approach. BiBi programs have not proven themselves as the best for the majority. Please show me an accepted study that shows they have.

Knowledge and memorization are mutually exclusive. If you can't apply or critically evaluate then you don't have knowledge.

Incorrect, and the cognitive psychologists that have studied such have supported the point I have made for eons. One can have knowledge through memorization that the individual cannot apply nor critically evaluate because they have little capability to use fluid intelligence. Your view is restricted and does not account for the reality of the situation.

And those are the people that have conducted studies and published in peer reviewed journals, not to mention books. Just because you haven't read the studies and the volumes does not mean that they don't exist.

I have shown such studies, and several other members of this forum have the same studies. But if you are truly interested in expanding your knowledge base, I would reccommend that you start with an elementary volume regarding developmental and cognitive psychology. Once you have the basic information, you can begin to apply it as it is directed toward deaf education, and move forward from there. You are trying to put the cart before the horse.

The results showing that deaf students in the mainstream and under the auspices of oral and TC education are testing out at a 4th grade reading level when they graduate 12th grade are not subjective. They are objective and measurable.

 

[rockdrummer]

......I have shown such studies, and several other members of this forum have the same studies. But if you are truly interested in expanding your knowledge base, I would reccommend that you start with an elementary volume regarding developmental and cognitive psychology. Once you have the basic information, you can begin to apply it as it is directed toward deaf education, and move forward from there. You are trying to put the cart before the horse.

The results showing that deaf students in the mainstream and under the auspices of oral and TC education are testing out at a 4th grade reading level when they graduate 12th grade are not subjective. They are objective and measurable.

Please point me to a study that suggests that bibi programs are the best for the majority of deaf kids.

 

[Cheri]

Please point me to a study that suggests that bibi programs are the best for the majority of deaf kids.

There isn't any, only that it's a newly program, and not a well known program yet, because of that only a few educations have a bi-bi program.

 

[jillio]

Please point me to a study that suggests that bibi programs are the best for the majority of deaf kids.

Delana, M., Andrews, J. & Gentry, M.A. (2007). The efficacy of ASL/English bilingual education: considering public schools. American Annals of the Deaf. 152 (1). Pp. 73-87.

Hermans, D., Knoors, H., Ormel, E., & Verhoeven, L. (2008). The relationship between the reading and signing skills of deaf children in bilingual education programs. The Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education. 13 (4). Pp. 519-531.

Evans, C. (2004). Literacy development in deaf students: Case studies in bilingual teaching and learning. American Annals of the Deaf. 149 (1). Pp. 17-27.

These should get you started. You can then use the references pages at the end of these 3 articles to find literally hundreds of other articles on the same topic.

 

[jillio]

There isn't any, only that it's a newly program, and not a well known program yet, because of that only a few educations have a bi-bi program.

Please see the post above. I suggest you retract your statement that there is no research to support the hypothesis. I have clearly shown that there is.