Survey of Bi-Bi programs - Empirical Article

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jillio said:
I have already been informed by a moderator that unless I cite specifically from a specific research paper, I am in no way obligated to provide you with a citation. If I have done so, I have done so out of generosity. But it is quite obvious that you have no appreciation for the effort.
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Really... so you can just say research shows xyz but not have to cite the research? Really? Do you believe that is productive? So then anyone can just claim that research proves or disproves something and not have to cite the research? I'm not sure which mod supports that but please have them read this post and then send me a PM to confirm.
 
rockdrummer said:
Please read the post above this one. Also what about the ability of someone to make counterpoints to the research. Or what about if she is mistaken and was thinking about some other paper. Without providing at least the title how can anyone ever counterpoint what is claimed. Maybe she is mistaken but nobody would ever know because she hasn't backed up the claims of research with the titles or anything else. Are we to just believe everything that is claimed just because someone says research shows it and then not hold them accountable to provide the minimal information required for anyone to find such research. That would indeed be dangerous. Regardless of what Jill want's you to believe about my efforts, I have read several research papers and articles on bibi programs which is on of the reasons she is being pressed in this thread.
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One can counterpoint by finding their own research that supports their counterpoint. It really is simple.
 
AlleyCat said:
One thing I've never understood was the statistics and rates implying that deaf literacy rates are very low. I'm not disputing the statistics - they have to be out there somewhere - let me show you an example here. When I was applying to RIT (not NTID - NTID is an AAS program whereas RIT is a BA program and deaf students attending RIT can utilize NTID services such as interpreters, etc.) my parents and I were told that an 8th grade reading level was all that was required for admission -- for those of you who don't know, deaf students did not have to conform to RIT's admissions standards, but rather NTID's, whether we were attending NTID or RIT. I had to take two tests during orientation that, depending on the results, would place me at either remedial math and English, or college-level math and English. (I did so well on both that I was at college-level, but that's besides the point.)

My point is .. while during all my school years, I had my own IEP plan, IEP teacher, speech therapist, and interpreter. I was in a high school of 2,000 with TWO other deaf people; all 3 of us were in the same grade. We each had our own IEP plan (we did share the same IEP teacher but had different "sessions" with her, it was not a group session), our own individual time with the speech therapist and our own interpreters. Because I was at a more advanced level than the other 2, I took more advanced classes by myself so I had my own interpeter. I went on to graduate #77 in my class out of 500, and the other 2 did quite well for themselves as well. And in my school district, we had several other schools that had the exact same thing going on as mine, and most of the deaf students succeeded just as well as I did.

So .. from what I saw while growing up, my question is, where do the low literacy rates come from? We all were part of the bi-bi (or TC) programs in which we had access to everything. I do see that the MN state school for the deaf did not have as high success rates, but not everyone attended that school. In fact, as far as I'm aware of, there were far more of us NOT attending the deaf school than were...
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The literacy rates come from academic data from various schools and programs that is compiled to reach a conclusion regarding the mean.
 
rockdrummer said:
Really... so you can just say research shows xyz but not have to cite the research? Really? Do you believe that is productive? So then anyone can just claim that research proves or disproves something and not have to cite the research? I'm not sure which mod supports that but please have them read this post and then send me a PM to confirm.
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It is every bit as productive as you sitting behind a computer screen attempting to get someone to do your work for you. And I will do nothing of the kind. If you want confirmation, go about getting it yourself.

But the answer to your question is, "yes you can." It is an accepted and standard procedure to do so, both in academia, in the business world, and on this board.
 
jillio said:
It is every bit as productive as you sitting behind a computer screen attempting to get someone to do your work for you. And I will do nothing of the kind. If you want confirmation, go about getting it yourself. Try a little personal responsibility for a change.
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How is me asking you to back up your claims doing my work for me?
 
jillio said:
I have the best intentions when it comes to helping others learn. I simply have no patience for those who claim to want to learn but refuse to make the effort to do so.
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Really? When we asked you for sources many times before; you insulted us, and now you're being generous by providing titles of the books? I don't think any of us had said that we refused to learn. I'm willing to learn if anyone would be kindly generous enough to cited sources, and now that you did, Thank you. I'll have to check those books out. :)
 
Cheri said:
Really? When we asked you for a source many times before; you insulted us, and now you're being generous to us by providing titles of the books? I don't think any of us had said that we refused to learn. I'm willing to learn if anyone would be kindly generous enough to cited sources, and now that you did, Thank you. I'll have to check those books out. :)
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Maybe she is to smart to have common sense. What she doesnt' realize is that she is hurting her cause rather than helping it. What she is doing is raising questions about the validity of her claims rather than supporting them. Some people just don't get it. :dunno:
 
jillio said:
I've already explained that over and over and over.............
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I will agree to disagree with that ... But I'm sure you will need to get the last word on it. So go ahead so the topic can get back on track.
 
rockdrummer said:
I will agree to disagree with that ... But I'm sure you will need to get the last word on it. So go ahead so the topic can get back on track.
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Right. Back to the discussion of bi-bi education. Read any good articles on the topic lately?
 
jillio said:
Those citations did not come from a university data base. They came directly from full text articles that I have in my own personal research base. There was no copy and paste to it. I found the aticles, (among 100's I might add), and formulated the citations based on the information provided in my personal copy of the research.

I happen to be working off of my personal computer at the moment. And if your wife can do the search, I'm sure she is versed in knowing what search criteria to use. Perhaps she can teach you.:roll:
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Yeh, sure...
I believe you!
 
jillio said:
Right. Back to the discussion of bi-bi education. Read any good articles on the topic lately?
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I've read several...and now have a few more to read. I am looking forward to picking up the discussion to support that the bib programs are the best for the majority as you have said.
 
rockdrummer said:
I've read several...and now have a few more to read. I am looking forward to picking up the discussion to support that the bib programs are the best for the majority as you have said.
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Me too, If you finished before I do, let me know :giggle:
 
Good. It is nice to know that both of you have become willing to avail yourself of the information that is out there. I love it when people actually make the effort to learn something.

I look forward to discussing the findings contained in these articles with both of you.
 
jillio said:
Good. It is nice to know that both of you have become willing to avail yourself of the information that is out there. I love it when people actually make the effort to learn something.

I look forward to discussing the findings contained in these articles with both of you.
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Just to clearify... are you suggesting that we have not been willing to avail ourselves to information and that we have not made efforts to learn?
 
rockdrummer said:
Just to clearify... are you suggesting that we have not been willing to avail ourselves to information and that we have not made efforts to learn?
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Just to confirm....did you mean "Clarify" and have you read the articles yet?
 
Just because she has been asked to provide a citation to work that she is making claims from doesn't mean she is doing anybodys work for them. It only means she is being held accountable for her cliams that she is basing on studies and research. Providing a citation is minimal effort especially for someone that has the knowledge of the studies and research. It also gives folks a fair chance to revew and discuss such claims. This is not unreasonable when it comes to making decisions that affect our children and what programs we may decide to enroll them into.
 
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