Survey of Bi-Bi programs - Empirical Article

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rockdrummer said:
Way to dodge the question. You should run for office.
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Whether or not you have read the articles will be the deciding factor in the intent behind my statement. Can I take your failure to answer the simple question as a "No"?
 
rockdrummer said:
Just because she has been asked to provide a citation to work that she is making claims from doesn't mean she is doing anybodys work for them. It only means she is being held accountable for her cliams that she is basing on studies and research. Providing a citation is minimal effort especially for someone that has the knowledge of the studies and research. It also gives folks a fair chance to revew and discuss such claims. This is not unreasonable when it comes to making decisions that affect our children and what programs we may decide to enroll them into.
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Have you used that information to access and read the articles in question? And providing the citations is a billable expense for a research assistant. I provided what you requested for that more than "fair chance." As long as you have internet access, you already have a "fair chance" to access the information. I actually gave you a leg up by providing you the information that allows you to go directly to the article, including page numbers. The question is, have you taken advantage of what was provided and actually accessed and read the articles, or are you simply doing what you usually do and ignoring the evidence?
 
Cloggy said:
So, for you it's all very easy to say "find it yourself, buy it yourself", since you get it for free and instantly on your computer..
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no.... it's not free.... students pay for it as part of their tuition and fees. I assure you that it's not cheap at all. Ever wonder why tuition is several thousand dollars and student fees are usually a couple hundred dollars? Once I graduated from college, I'm suddenly cut off from academic resources. I surely miss accessing academic database.... It's very rich in pure information :cry:

Personally - this kind of information should be free! :mad2:
 
Jiro said:
no.... it's not free.... students pay for it as part of their tuition and fees. I assure you that it's not cheap at all. Ever wonder why tuition is several thousand dollars and student fees are usually a couple hundred dollars?

Personally - this kind of information should be free! :mad2:
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Exactly. Costs me $3,000 a quarter in tuition alone. That is $12,000 a year. That doesn't include other fees.

The majority of it is free. There are only a few journals that charge for their articles. However, it is understandable, as they aslo have publishing costs that must be covered. Another option would be a yearly subscription to the journal that carries the articles you are interested in. That way, you avail yourself of everything that journal publishes, and it is certainly cheaper than paying for each individual article. One can also use document delivery at their local library.

I suppose it just depends on how interested one truly is in the topic.
 
rockdrummer said:
Providing a citation to back up your claims costs you nothing.
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Accessing the article from which I took the citation does. As I stated before, those citations came from articles that I have saved in my personal data base. And when I provide same information as a research assistant, it costs the recipient.

However, you continuing to argue about this is just a clear indication that it is not your intent to find and read articles, but simply to request citations for no reason whatsoever other than to be obtuse. You obviously have not bothered to use the information provided to access that which you claimed to have wanted.

Therefore, I will no longer even be generous enough to provide that information to you, just as I have refused to provide you with the full text articles because you refused to cooperate in the means necessary to get them to you. You have been provided with a means to get the articles for free...you turned it down. You have been provided the information necessary to get the articles yourself. You have falied to use it. You have made it quite obvious that you have no intention of making use of the resources that would allow you to gather information. Translation....you don't want to learn, you want to argue. The problem with that is, until you make the effort to learn, your arguments have no foundation.
 
So the surveys of Bibi programs sound interesting and I think that BiBi programs show promise only if.. oh shit.. wait.. Im sorry Im in the wrong thread. This is the "Should one provide citations behind a claim and/or charge for it?" thread. My bad.
 
Daredevel7 said:
So the surveys of Bibi programs sound interesting and I think that BiBi programs show promise only if.. oh shit.. wait.. Im sorry Im in the wrong thread. This is the "Should one provide citations behind a claim and/or charge for it?" thread. My bad.
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Yes, the information regarding Bi-Bi education is very interesting and enlightening. The benefits are evident when one reads the research involved.
 
jillio said:
Accessing the article from which I took the citation does. As I stated before, those citations came from articles that I have saved in my personal data base. And when I provide same information as a research assistant, it costs the recipient.

However, you continuing to argue about this is just a clear indication that it is not your intent to find and read articles, but simply to request citations for no reason whatsoever other than to be obtuse. You obviously have not bothered to use the information provided to access that which you claimed to have wanted.

Therefore, I will no longer even be generous enough to provide that information to you, just as I have refused to provide you with the full text articles because you refused to cooperate in the means necessary to get them to you. You have been provided with a means to get the articles for free...you turned it down. You have been provided the information necessary to get the articles yourself. You have falied to use it. You have3 made it quite obvious that you have no intention of making use of the resources that would allow you to gather information. Translation....you don't want to learn, you want to argue. The problem with that is, until you make the effort to learn, your arguments have no foundation.
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I’ve turned nothing down. Here you go with your blatant lies again. I ask you for citations to hold you (and anyone else) accountable for their claims. Remember people may be basing decisions for their children on such claims. It's not unreasonable to request them but it is in my opinion unreasonable, irresponsible and unprofessional to not provide them when asked. Those are general statements that apply to any thread you make claims to studies and research from but don't provide citations when you are asked. Yes Jillio you finally provided citations in this thread and yes Jillio when I am finished reading through the research you provided along with other research I will provide feedback. Meanwhile you tugging on my shirt sleeve asking me if I have read what you have finally provided yet adds nothing constructive to the topic of citing research and studies that you make claims from. It’s a clear indication that you don’t want to answer questions that will incriminate you. You must possess a PHD in spin.

Your arrogance and obsession with being perceived as right all of the time is in my view clouding your better judgment. What you don’t realize is that you are alienating people that may be able to support and help your cause. I have often seen where someone with too much education actually looses touch with reality and common sense. This is in my view another case in point.
 
rockdrummer said:
I’ve turned nothing down. Here you go with your blatant lies again. I ask you for citations to hold you (and anyone else) accountable for their claims. Remember people may be basing decisions for their children on such claims. It's not unreasonable to request them but it is in my opinion unreasonable, irresponsible and unprofessional to not provide them when asked. Those are general statements that apply to any thread you make claims to studies and research from but don't provide citations when you are asked. Yes Jillio you finally provided citations in this thread and yes Jillio when I am finished reading through the research you provided along with other research I will provide feedback. Meanwhile you tugging on my shirt sleeve asking me if I have read what you have finally provided yet adds nothing constructive to the topic of citing research and studies that you make claims from. It’s a clear indication that you don’t want to answer questions that will incriminate you. You must possess a PHD in spin.

Your arrogance and obsession with being perceived as right all of the time is in my view clouding your better judgment. What you don’t realize is that you are alienating people that may be able to support and help your cause. I have often seen where someone with too much education actually looses touch with reality and common sense. This is in my view another case in point.
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How can you determine accountability if you don't bother to read the articles, RD? That is the whole point. Unless you bother to actually read the articles, the citation provides you with nothing that can determine accountability. Like I said, it is nothing more than an execise in being obtuse.

And, yes, you turned down my offer to provide you will full text of articles. I will be more than happy to go back and repost your refusals.

When, and if, you read the articles for which I have provided citations, we will have something to discuss. The time you are spending attempting to discount my credibility would be far better spent reading the research.
 
Daredevel7 said:
So the surveys of Bibi programs sound interesting and I think that BiBi programs show promise only if.. oh shit.. wait.. Im sorry Im in the wrong thread. This is the "Should one provide citations behind a claim and/or charge for it?" thread. My bad.
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You are cracking me up Daredevel... thanks for the laugh... On a serious note you are probably right and the topic of citations to support claims can be a thread all by itself.
 
jillio said:
How can you determine accountability if you don't bother to read the articles, RD? That is the whole point. Unless you bother to actually read the articles, the citation provides you with nothing that can determine accountability. Like I said, it is nothing more than an execise in being obtuse.

And, yes, you turned down my offer to provide you will full text of articles. I will be more than happy to go back and repost your refusals.
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What makes you believe the articles are not being read. See that is the problem... you are making assumptions. Didn't I just tell you I am currently reading those and other articles so that I can provide feedback. I refused nothing. What I told you was that I didn't feel comfortable giving out my personal email to a stranger over the internet. All you had to do was provide the citation and I could have looked up the research myself. You are the one that refused to provide the citation.
 
rockdrummer said:
You are cracking me up Daredevel... thanks for the laugh... On a serious note you are probably right and the topic of citations to support claims can be a thread all by itself.
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So, back on topic. Bi-Bi education, remember?
 
rockdrummer said:
I’ve turned nothing down. Here you go with your blatant lies again. I ask you for citations to hold you (and anyone else) accountable for their claims. Remember people may be basing decisions for their children on such claims. It's not unreasonable to request them but it is in my opinion unreasonable, irresponsible and unprofessional to not provide them when asked. Those are general statements that apply to any thread you make claims to studies and research from but don't provide citations when you are asked. Yes Jillio you finally provided citations in this thread and yes Jillio when I am finished reading through the research you provided along with other research I will provide feedback. Meanwhile you tugging on my shirt sleeve asking me if I have read what you have finally provided yet adds nothing constructive to the topic of citing research and studies that you make claims from. It’s a clear indication that you don’t want to answer questions that will incriminate you. You must possess a PHD in spin.

Your arrogance and obsession with being perceived as right all of the time is in my view clouding your better judgment. What you don’t realize is that you are alienating people that may be able to support and help your cause. I have often seen where someone with too much education actually looses touch with reality and common sense. This is in my view another case in point.
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it sounds familiar..... :hmm: oh yea... the whole Obama-McCain debacle :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:
 
rockdrummer said:
What makes you believe the articles are not being read. See that is the problem... you are making assumptions. Didn't I just tell you I am currently reading those and other articles so that I can provide feedback. I refused nothing. What I told you was that I didn't feel comfortable giving out my personal email to a stranger over the internet. All you had to do was provide the citation and I could have looked up the research myself. You are the one that refused to provide the citation.
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Because, RD, if you had actually read the articles, you would be able to actually discuss the topic instead of doing nothing more than attempting to attack my credibility and argue about whether you had a citation or not. One who has read the research knows what the research says without asking for a citation.

I've provided the citations. You have failed to use them. Big difference.

Now, back on topic.
 
rockdrummer said:
Just because she has been asked to provide a citation to work that she is making claims from doesn't mean she is doing anybodys work for them. It only means she is being held accountable for her cliams that she is basing on studies and research. Providing a citation is minimal effort especially for someone that has the knowledge of the studies and research. It also gives folks a fair chance to revew and discuss such claims. This is not unreasonable when it comes to making decisions that affect our children and what programs we may decide to enroll them into.
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That's right :thumb:
 
jillio said:
Because, RD, if you had actually read the articles, you would be able to actually discuss the topic instead of doing nothing more than attempting to attack my credibility and argue about whether you had a citation or not. One who has read the research knows what the research says without asking for a citation.

I've provided the citations. You have failed to use them. Big difference.

Now, back on topic.
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You are again confused and attempting to spin things in an attempt to be percieved as right. While you may be fooling others I am not so eaisly fooled. What part of "
Yes Jillio you finally provided citations in this thread and yes Jillio when I am finished reading through the research you provided along with other research I will provide feedback."
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don't you understand?
 
Suggestion...can u both take it on PM?
 
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