Supreme Court to consider D.C. Handgun Ban

[Jiro]

Yes - it is the law in USA that if you refuse to sign the ticket, you will be arrested. Signing the ticket does not automatically means you are guilty of the charge. You can contest this ticket at court later - plain and simple but pain in the ass yes. Technically - you are breaking the law by over-speeding but it is a misdemeanor charge which is why you only receive a ticket but the cop can LEGALLY arrest you if he wants to even if you over-speed by 5mph. Cop can make decision for himself to see if you are incompetent/unfit to continue driving.

In ANY case - DO NOT ARGUE WITH THE POLICE! That is what court is for. All you have to do is BE QUIET, COMPLY, and DO NOT RESIST. I said "be quiet" because anything you say can be used against you. Everything will be done in just a day. You go to jail, get processed, and released on bail in just couple hours. You will get a lawyer and fight this in court. Chance is you'll win and the cop will probably be disciplined. that's fine... better than resisting arrest and getting tasered, right?

I support the cop's action even though he went a little too far but it is driver's fault. He forced the cop to take action. From what I see - I have to assume everything. I don't know if the driver has a small gun or knife in his pocket. I don't know anything. All I know is that he is verbally-abusive and argumentative and uncooperative. That raises red flag - a hostile person.

btw - about purse thing you asked... well put it this way - if you were arguing with the cop and being uncooperative... and you're reaching into your purse - perhaps to call your lawyer... that is a red flag. The cop will think you're reaching for gun in your purse. Use your very smart judgment and tell the officer that you're reaching into your purse to call your lawyer. Like I said - ALWAYS keep your hands VISIBLE at ALL time and do not make any sudden movement. do not make any threatening gesture. do not reach into pocket, compartment or any thing AT ALL.

I know it sucks but these cops are fathers, husbands, and sons. They have family to go at the end of their jobs. They have become very cautious because many officers were hurt or killed in the line of duty because of tricks they pulled on cops. They could be all nice and cooperative.... and then all of sudden, they pulled out gun or knife or whatever and hurt/killed the cop. According to FBI statistic - 57 officers were killed last year and 83 were accidentally killed.

2006 Statistic -
48 was killed
66 was accidentally killed
58,634 out of 495,270 officers were assaulted (26.8% were injured)

Weapons
* The majority of officers assaulted (79.8 percent) were attacked with personal weapons such as hands, fists, or feet.
* 3.9 percent of the officers were assaulted with firearms.
* 1.8 percent of the officers were assaulted with knives or other cutting instruments.
* 14.5 percent of the officers assaulted were attacked with other types of dangerous weapons.

That is why TASER is safe and necessary for officers to use. and that's why smaller people or weak people or women should be allowed to carry a small gun. You can die from unarmed intruder. You could die from being clobbered by a huge guy - you'll either bleed to death or sustain a serious trauma injury especially head.

 

[Reba]

Should I jump quickly and shot straight way without use good judgement?

Of course you can use good judgment.

Do you really think it's easy to argue in court after found out that the intruder do not have weapon with him/her?

It doesn't always go to court. The police do their investigation, and the prosecutor determines if there is a case.

The aftermath of a shooting is never "easy". However, I would prefer to prove my case to a judge and jury then to attend the funeral of a loved one.

That's all?

That's enough to find out if the person is a criminal.

Police told us at parental evening that they will be glad to give us answer and advise us how to shoot if we want to know.

Do you mean they teach you how to shoot at their firing range? Do they provide the guns also?

I would say the same about you as well because you said that you have been trained but you must have known that you have to train how to shot correctly, not just shot person's chest/head.

Aiming for the center of mass is the correct way to shoot for self defense. Why else do you think the practice targets show a silhouette of a human head and torso? The target doesn't show arms and legs sticking out. The goal is to stop the bad guy from his attack. FAST!

Why should I train because I choose to not own a gun?

If you don't want to get or use a gun, that's fine with me. I really don't care what you do. My point is, how can you say that I'm not properly trained if you don't even have any training experience yourself?

HELLO? Please re-read my post... "Yes, we have to do what the attackers want. If we won´t do what they wants then we are dead!!!! If you want to remain alive then do what they wants".

You can obey him and still end up dead. What's your point?

How could you do if an intruder is front of you suddenly? Is it possible to run to get the gun from safety cupboard? Of course he would grab you if you run for get gun and then kill you.... or tried to get gun from under your bed pillow? I was being taught that it doesn't solve anything but dead!!!!! :roll:

Maybe I could get it first, maybe not. I want to have that option available to me.

BTW, I don't keep my gun under my pillow. That's not safe.

Societies that teach that all protection is by the police or government usually do that so they can keep their citizens disarmed and dependent on the "authorities." It makes it a lot easier to control the citizenry that way.

I do not see anything in the link, you provided that I said Gun is an illegal in Germany but only said that "I guess it could be that America & German law is different"

Your original question was, "who says that self-defense is an illegal in Germany? I do not see anything that I say..."

I didn't say anything about guns being illegal in Germany. I said that you didn't know that killing in self defense was "allowed" (legal) in Germany.

You said, "Again, I didn't know that we are allow to kill anyone accord self-defense. I guess it could be that America and German law is different."

Please pay attention to your own statements.

Your own word; "A chest is a much bigger target".

You said "... It look intend to me if you shoot an intruder´s head or chest dozen of times... It´s not right self-defense but intend to kill."

I replied, "Maybe it 'looks' that way to you but I never said that.

I would do whatever it takes to stop an attacker. Most likely that would not take shooting "dozen of times" (which would require reloading anyway)."

Please stay focused.

No, accord my American friend - the family of intruder would sue you for shoot him IF he is OUT of your properly.

Is your friend a lawyer?

Anyone can sue for anything; it doesn't mean they will win.

If someone attacks me on a public street 100 miles from my home, I have the right to defend myself.

If my life is in danger, I'm not going to worry about a lawsuit. :roll:

... I think you watch too many movies, not me... You think it's okay to jump quickly and fire straight way without use good judgement...

Nope. I don't think it's OK to not use good judgment. I just support having every option open.

BTW, I don't really care for "shoot 'em up" or violent movies.

Simple answer: Normally, an intruder would held weapon before he/she break in our house. We can catch them and call police on them...

Oh, really? How courteous of your intruder. Our intruders are not so courteous in America.

Frisk him first? I never know anyone did like that... Could you please provide me some source to support your claim?

That wasn't a claim; it was a question. See the "?" at the end of the sentence?

 

[Reba]

No wonder, why they do not have gun liesence... and do not have high restricition which is too easy for them to get gun in illegal way...

Criminals do everything in an "illegal way"; that's why they're called "criminals."

That's why I said that their background and also record need to be check to compare their writing... The experts should use their good judgement on their writing...

You mean they have to pass a penmanship analysis to get a gun?! Oh, man!

This is your choice as the same as everyone have their own choice as well.

In the United States, yes, thanks to our Constitution's 2nd Amendment.

I want to make sure first before I am going to response your post... Question: Is it a legal to carry a gun to the public (in your handbag or car?)

Short answer is "it depends." There are various state laws and various circumstances that apply to transporting a gun, or wearing a gun.

In my state, SC, we can carry guns in our vehicles, with certain restrictions. I have a concealed carry permit, so I can also carry a gun on my person, such as in a holster or fanny pack. Even that has restrictions regarding places.

There are lots of restrictions.

 

[Reba]

Yes, homeowners CAN train how to shoot leg or arm...

Can you please cite a reputable source for that statement?

It's unlawful of them to train you how to shoot chest.

Maybe that's the law in Germany but it's the opposite in America. Every self defense or conceal carry class instructor teaches that the best way to stop an attacker is to aim for the center mass of the body. The center mass is primarily the upper chest. Shooting at arms and legs is almost useless.

What kind of practice targets do shooting ranges in Germany use? Our targets show human silhouettes without arms and legs. (Maybe a Germany sharpshooter shot off the arms and legs before we got them, heh, heh.)

 

[Reba]

...Accord my co-workers, USA police still use tasers... They said to me that the police officer use tasers to women as well...

Well, yeah, of course. Our police aren't sexist.

 

[Jiro]

They were being trained to shot legs and arms.

 

[Hwy99]

@ Jiro

Well it's more safe to shot on the arms or legs, the target person usually fell down to ground and it's easier to keep things in control instead of simply kill the target person. This method are usually the best way for those situation that nobody have had killed anyone except for someone who got out of control like trying to run away or trying to kill someone, or something like those.

 

[Jiro]

@ Jiro

Well it's more safe to shot on the arms or legs, the target person usually fell down to ground and it's easier to keep things in control instead of simply kill the target person. This method are usually the best way for those situation that nobody have had killed anyone except for someone who got out of control like trying to run away or trying to kill someone, or something like those.

but it is nearly impossible to shoot at arms or legs in the heat of moment when you're scared shitless. You'd be surprised how much damage a body can take. shooting once in the torso area does not usually result in death. he'll live. attempting to shoot at arms or legs will further endanger your own life and possibly your neighbor from your stray bullet. the bullet will go thru the wall/door and may hit the innocent at the other end.

just aim for center body (larger target) and you'll be fine. chance is intruder will be fine too even though he's in world of hurt.

 

[Hwy99]

but it is nearly impossible to shoot at arms or legs in the heat of moment when you're scared shitless. You'd be surprised how much damage a body can take. shooting once in the torso area does not usually result in death. he'll live. attempting to shoot at arms or legs will further endanger your own life and possibly your neighbor from your stray bullet. the bullet will go thru the wall/door and may hit the innocent at the other end.

just aim for center body (larger target) and you'll be fine. chance is intruder will be fine too even though he's in world of hurt.

Interesting.. Thank you for the info, I never shoot any form of living objects before so I only know what will happen if shoot to the humans from watching this terrible movie from the polices when I was in middle school, I fainted after watching this..

 

[Angel]

Well it's more safe to shot on the arms or legs, the target person usually fell down to ground and it's easier to keep things in control instead of simply kill the target person. This method are usually the best way for those situation that nobody have had killed anyone except for someone who got out of control like trying to run away or trying to kill someone, or something like those.

Not quite true, if the shot hits only on the arm or leg, the attacker could easily die from shock or blood loss so the bottom line is no matter where the bullet lands you may very likely kill the person anyways.

Also I would like to add that usually when someone attacks, it happens very quickly, there's no time to aim it toward an arm or a leg so the best chance of survival is to shoot the attacker anywhere on the body until he/she falls.

 

[Jiro]

Interesting.. Thank you for the info, I never shoot any form of living objects before so I only know what will happen if shoot to the humans from watching this terrible movie from the polices when I was in middle school, I fainted after watching this..

nobody does. It'd be great if I would never have to shoot a person in my lifetime (self-defense, of course) and I prefer to keep it that way. I would not hesitant to shoot though. I don't know why the middle school would show such movies like that....

but I can assure you that human body can take the abuse quite well. Look at these car accident survivors. and look at these soldiers with missing limbs who survived the IED attack. Surely - they can handle a shot or two in the gut... unless the shooter used lethal bullets such as magnum round or hollowpoint. Remember 50 cents rapper? I believe he was shot 6x... not sure

 

[Cheri]

Not quite true, if the shot hits only on the arm or leg, the attacker could easily die from shock or blood loss so the bottom line is no matter where the bullet lands you may very likely kill the person anyways.

Also I would like to add that usually when someone attacks, it happens very quickly, there's no time to aim it toward an arm or a leg so the best chance of survival is to shoot the attacker anywhere on the body until he/she falls.

 

[Hwy99]

Not quite true, if the shot hits only on the arm or leg, the attacker could easily die from shock or blood loss so the bottom line is no matter where the bullet lands you may very likely kill the person anyways.

Also I would like to add that usually when someone attacks, it happens very quickly, there's no time to aim it toward an arm or a leg so the best chance of survival is to shoot the attacker anywhere on the body until he/she falls.

Till your last sentence, that's all my point is. Avoid from shooting the heart or the brain is the best way, no else than that. If the target person was killed, then it's okay. It's okay because if keep that target person alive, then it will not solve any problem, but more further problems. That's what I was thinking about my uncle who was killed by self-defense as I posted at other thread..

nobody does. It'd be great if I would never have to shoot a person in my lifetime (self-defense, of course) and I prefer to keep it that way. I would not hesitant to shoot though. I don't know why the middle school would show such movies like that....

but I can assure you that human body can take the abuse quite well. Look at these car accident survivors. and look at these soldiers with missing limbs who survived the IED attack. Surely - they can handle a shot or two in the gut... unless the shooter used lethal bullets such as magnum round or hollowpoint. Remember 50 cents rapper? I believe he was shot 6x... not sure

Yeah, the polices just come to my middle school and showed us the reality violence from the gun shootings. I remember I was trying to not look at the movie while I was in the movie room, and when it was over, everyone was leaving the movie room, including myself, and when I was in the hallway, I just fainted in the hallway, my best friends and the nurse, also the interperter helped carried me to the nurse room and I woke up in the nurse room..

Anyway, I can understand you about shoothing in the middle of body, it's best way ratherly than the arms or legs, I can tell it's sorta of complication to solve something that was too fastly and having the weapons involved..

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Remember, Police ARE NOT trained to kill but shoot to stop the threat, not play Rambo.

See the difference

CopS shoot man with knife

Cops Shoot Man with Knife While Girlfriend Watches - Dumpalink.com

and

Aurora officer shoots woman with gun in the leg

Aurora officer shoots woman in the leg : Updates : The Rocky Mountain News

I agree with most of comments in that link that woman would of die if she is in same state where cops shoot a man with knife. I ask to myself thousand of times why can't they shoot JUST to wound, not kill? CopS shoot one man with a knife because he RAN to them... They trained to shoot just to wound... like most legs to make him fall down...? How hard is this? It's no reason to shot multiple times... It would be different story if a man started to SHOOT then make one of cops to shoot back quickly... bullet could hit his body to kill sometimes. I use to work for Police Criminal Unit and know what and how Police trained. They hold the guns and PREPARE for any case a person want to shoot them...

I Aurora police officer!

I would suggest police officers from different states should go to Aurora to train them how to shoot to stopl, not kill ..

Oakland cops shoot, kill boy, say he was armed
Oakland cops shoot, kill boy, say he was armed

"They could have shot him in the leg," said Harnell, who knew Buenrostro. "A life is gone now for his family and his siblings."


Very stupid!!! cop should shot his leg, not kill 15 years old boy. *shake my head*

Send my deepest sympathy to boy's family.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Not quite true, if the shot hits only on the arm or leg, the attacker could easily die from shock or blood loss so the bottom line is no matter where the bullet lands you may very likely kill the person anyways.

Very low/rarely... accord blood loss...yes, but shock? how? the attacker know the police have guns.

Shoot to affect heart and head could kill real quickly than legs/arms to wound to make him/her fall down to help the police to catch her/him quickly on the same time they alarm alumbance to take him/her to clinic to save her/his life.

Also I would like to add that usually when someone attacks, it happens very quickly, there's no time to aim it toward an arm or a leg so the best chance of survival is to shoot the attacker anywhere on the body until he/she falls.

Yes, it would be different story if there're unexpectly. It's impossible to shoot legs/arms when you defense for your life to fight off with attackers with something (guns, bat, metal, etc. etc.)... Something could kill attackers sometimes because it's sooo suddenly...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Till your last sentence, that's all my point is. Avoid from shooting the heart or the brain is the best way, no else than that.

It's hard if there're suddenly and unexpectly than you prepare to shoot or do something...

Example: You know an attacker will come to you then you prepare something... then you can try to aviod from shoot to heart or head... If something suddenly/unexpectly, you have no time to try to aviod anything... just defend for your life. It's not possible to run to get gun when an attacker is front of you unexpectly.

We questioned police a lot about the difference between preparation and suddenly...

If the target person was killed, then it's okay. It's okay because if keep that target person alive, then it will not solve any problem, but more further problems.

If an attacker jump on you suddenly, then is a different story.

That's what I was thinking about my uncle who was killed by self-defense as I posted at other thread..

I'm sorry to hear about your Uncle.

Anyway, I can understand you about shoothing in the middle of body, it's best way ratherly than the arms or legs, I can tell it's sorta of complication to solve something that was too fastly and having the weapons involved..

If you prepare then best to shoot legs or arms to wound like what I provided 2 links in my last posts and then alarm police.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

@ Jiro

Well it's more safe to shot on the arms or legs, the target person usually fell down to ground and it's easier to keep things in control instead of simply kill the target person. This method are usually the best way for those situation that nobody have had killed anyone except for someone who got out of control like trying to run away or trying to kill someone, or something like those.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

again - mistake happens. should we be quick to ban things just because of couple of unfortunate incidents? BTW 3 things:

1. in that link, he was killed by a knife (should we ban knife?)

I already said in previous posts that ban something do not solve anything.

2. my door would be locked so how would neighbor's teenager get in?

Accord the links, many teeangers break in from windows...

3. if someone forced his/her way in, well... sorry! Most of crimes occur in poorly-lit area which is why I highly recommend gun owners to have a flashlight installed on their guns.

flashlight installed on their guns? Do you mean it helps to not shoot head or heart? Correct?

If that man had taser - this kind neighbor would have survived.

Well, I learn about taser from threads at last year to few years ago... It's not always.

wow really? German police must be the most accurate shooters in the world! MOST of officers in the world are trained to shoot at torso (except Japanese and UK - they're not allowed to carry guns).

It's not just German police but any police are educate and train how to shoot to stop a threat, not kill.

About UK - yes, they do have gun. I use to work for Police Criminal Unit in London for 5 years. Yes, they do not use guns when they walk to the public - their job to watch and run after shoplifters, to stop volience, alarm to get more polices to come... They use gun for preparation... example: Bank robbery... They stay outside and wait for Bank robbers come out of Bank... etc... They often shoot them without hit their head and heart. It does the same here in Germany as well... They often shoot legs/arms to make them fall down. To kill them is rarely.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I have reviewed those video clips and they are justified. I will post another to explain my view.

Okay

pepper spray is especially useful for CROWD CONTROL but not so great for subduing suspect that is safe for both parties. Officer could be killed/injured in this process.

Well, it's not just Officer but people as well who could be killed/injured... To us, use pepper spray is the best thing...

I know we do not have pepper spray... it was happend last week, we drove to town, the biker came to road from bicycle lane suddenly which he should stop and let the cars go... Lucky we did not hit him... until the red stop signal comes, my hubby saw him near our car... My hubby opened the window and told him off to go back bicycle lane because we almost hitted him... Guess what? A biker came to face to face my hubby close and "attack" my hubby and tight my hubby's arm and on him... I thought he would say "oh, I'm sorry... " or what... he should be glad that we did not hitted him... :roll: I ignored with :roll: to biker and was about to get my handbag... Guess what - it frighten biker away because he THOUGHT I get pepperspray to spray him... it's trick...

because UK officers work in 2-men team. Most of officers in USA are solo so they're on their own until help can come.

Yes, that's correct - it's not just UK officers but European police officers as well, alway have 2-men team. Why solo? they should hire more police officers to be 2-men team?

I'm not talking about bank robbery. What about if he wants to rape you? What if you're confronted by a unruly, drunk gang? there are many what-ifs. My answer to ALL what-ifs is either gun or non-lethal weapons especially taser - but pepper spray is INEFFECTIVE.

I only give you the example about bank robbery... like what I said in previous post about 'suddenly and unexpectly' when the attacker come to me suddenly... like rape, etc. Yes, pepper spray does help... because it helps victims to run away fast as they can... It was happeend here in Germany...

You can buy a cheap gun for about $300-500. I don't exactly know how much the alarm system cost in here but ADT is a popular brand. Check out its link - ADT Alarm System. It gets expensive when you have to pay for monthly fees. I'm sure people is not going to pick the cheapest one so I'm guessing the cost of buying devices + installing it could run up to $1000.

Monthly fees? I understand now why the people prefer to use gun because it's cheap than alarm system. (seurity system) there in America.

After read your post, I asked my friend at BBQ party last saturday about this because I know she do have security system after burglary break in their house once. They said that they do not need to pay month fee... The police department was being paid by government. That's it.

that's usually how we do it. identify the threat first and shoot. but it's not easy to do this in poorly-lit area. That's why we yell - I HAVE THE GUN! STOP! but if they do not comply, well then I'm sorry but it's justified to shoot.

Like what I said before, preparation is easy than suddenly and unexpectly... What you do if they do not have any weapons with them? Still warn them before shoot them?

High gun restriction means it makes it impossible or very difficult for owner to obtain protection for himself or have many legal implications to use it for protection. For example - I can own a gun in NJ but it was very difficult and lengthy. I cannot have a concealed permit. If there was an armed intruder in my house and I shot him in self-defense - I can be held liable for personal injury lawsuit. In short - NJ does not care if my life was in danger or not. Most gun owners do give sufficient warning before they shoot.

Well, I would prefer it because it should not too easy for the people to buy gun what they wants. Before German gun law comes, there was low restriction which easy for the people to get gun... until school shooting was happened in Erfurt, Germany... that's why German gun law changed into strict.. and control why the people want gun... Of course gun is a legal in Germany for many years before and after school shooting, many Germans are not interest to have one. Many German do not own guns and can do self-defense well... I am not saying 100% but they doing well without use gun.. They often say that gun doesn't solve anything to protect their life. Why? Because it's too late for you to run to get gun because an intruder/attacker come first before you... That's why self-defense to against them is the best... train how to defense for our life... than worry about gun is just run to get gun from cupboard.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

What if someone follows a person home and pushed their way in the victim's house?

Well, you talk about outside of house property, not inside of house property. I was experienced twice at long time ago but doesn't happened to me.

Yes, we were being trained how to do that... If I am alone to walk late night then make sure anyone do not follow me...

At one night, when I was 15 years old that's time... I left Deaf club for go home alone... I look back and make sure anyone follow me... before I walk.... and then stop and look back... and spot the same man, I saw at underground... I felt he followed me. (I walked public instead of go to park...) I saw him and turn to walk to next path instead of go home... and walk back and check him either he stopped or not... Yes, he stopped... I went back to Fish & Chip shop and told them about suspect... they called police... A man disappeared... I gave 2 policemen description of man... Police accompanied me to home.

Again, I was 17 years old... I was on the bus on my way to home from visit my friend's house. I noticed a man followed me from 2 different buses. I tried to go down from upstair bus and have seat near the bus driver... A man was came again... I know I have to get out of bus to home... I public screamed to a man to stop to follow me... A man "pretended" and make me think I'm I told him to stay there before I get out... The bus driver told him to do what I say... A man did what I said and stay in the bus... I ran fast as I can as I went out of bus to home... *phew*

Hopefully, it wont happen to me again... *knock on wood*

Criminal TV once month advised us to use our judgment if we walk alone at night... or get someone to accompany us...


You should use your judgment... instead of jogging at night alone in park before go to home... it's common to rape joggers before go home like that... that's why we were advised to get accompany if I want jogging at night... or whatever... look back and make sure... If you want alone then do at public..., not park