Supreme Court to consider D.C. Handgun Ban

[Reba]

I used to work for police criminal unit in London for 5 years before I married and move to Germany. I used to watch police training every Wednesday. Some police were being killed and some not. It's not alway safety but they did their best what they can. All what I know is they don't use taser.

I don't know about England, but the USA police didn't begin using Tasers until the late 1990s.

 

[Jiro]

As what you said that gun restriction in your country is an exact same as mine which mean is high restriction.

Question: How intruders/attackers get illegal guns from? ]

the guns could be stolen, imported from foreign nations, etc. just like people can get illegal drugs - both prescription and illegal (heroin, cocaine, etc.). does it mean we should ban it?

*talk general* If you want to own a gun to defend your life then use your good judgement.

See the example:
Cleared: family man who killed a 'burglar' | News Is it okay to make quick judge like this?

oh well... it's unfortunate.. mistake happens but this is a few incidents compared to unarmed citizens (who are unable to obtain guns due to legal difficulty or ban) being killed.

I'm trying to say that every American should get background check and mental health check should be able to carry a gun or not. Many innocent people are being killed because the gun is easy for the killer to shot or many "innocent" intruders are killed because the gun is easy for the owner to use as self-defense (check the example of link).

That is the current law. we do get background check and mental health check. However - the way you do the mental health check is slightly different from us. If there is a file on someone that has a history of mental illness - then he/she does not qualify.

Here in Germany, the Drugstore do not allow to sell drugs to customers without doctor's signuature. (they are allows to sell drugs for headaches, vitamins tablets or powder, etc without doctor's signature). It's doctor's responsibity to check patient's last drugs before she/he can write the drugs for them to go drugstore to get some.

you can fake your symptom and get prescription drug. or you can pay someone with symptom to get it for you. it happens.

 

[Jiro]

Here is link... What about this?
Cleared: family man who killed a 'burglar' | News

Can you imagine how you feel if you shot to kill the neighbor's teeneager who open your door for mistake?

I can't see it's legal to shoot a man with no weapons for break into your house.

again - mistake happens. should we be quick to ban things just because of couple of unfortunate incidents? BTW 3 things:
1. in that link, he was killed by a knife (should we ban knife?)
2. my door would be locked so how would neighbor's teenager get in?
3. if someone forced his/her way in, well... sorry! Most of crimes occur in poorly-lit area which is why I highly recommend gun owners to have a flashlight installed on their guns.

If that man had taser - this kind neighbor would have survived.

That's why I decide that gun is not right for me because I know for the sure that I CAN'T do that. Yes, I work for police before I was married... They were being trained to shot legs and arms.[/QUOTE]
wow really? German police must be the most accurate shooters in the world! MOST of officers in the world are trained to shoot at torso (except Japanese and UK - they're not allowed to carry guns).

 

[Jiro]

http://www.alldeaf.com/current-events/47090-we-need-ban-taser.html

http://www.alldeaf.com/topic-debates/47270-speeding-ticket-taser.html

You will see plenty of taser threads in this link.

AllDeaf.com - Search Results

If you want to search "taser" then go to Search and type "taser" then it will come then you will know more why ADers are not for taser.

I have reviewed those video clips and they are justified. I will post another to explain my view.

I didn't know that police use peppersprays because we (people) use peppersprays... It says that pepperspray helps real alot...

pepper spray is especially useful for CROWD CONTROL but not so great for subduing suspect that is safe for both parties. Officer could be killed/injured in this process.

Yes, I know. I used to work for police criminal unit in London for 5 years before I married and move to Germany. I used to watch police training every Wednesday. Some police were being killed and some not. It's not alway safety but they did their best what they can. All what I know is they don't use taser.

because UK officers work in 2-men team. Most of officers in USA are solo so they're on their own until help can come.

That's why I was being advised to calm down and do what they says like Bank Robbers. It would risk your life less than 2 minutes if you are panic and try to fight back or shot...

I'm not talking about bank robbery. What about if he wants to rape you? What if you're confronted by a unruly, drunk gang? there are many what-ifs. My answer to ALL what-ifs is either gun or non-lethal weapons especially taser - but pepper spray is INEFFECTIVE.

But security system cost not much than gun? Try to compare the prices between security system and gun, liescne, etc. Just press the cellphone's button to alarm the police before the intruder try to break thru the window or door. Like what I said before, lock the window and door to be safety... It cost not much...

You can buy a cheap gun for about $300-500. I don't exactly know how much the alarm system cost in here but ADT is a popular brand. Check out its link - ADT Alarm System. It gets expensive when you have to pay for monthly fees. I'm sure people is not going to pick the cheapest one so I'm guessing the cost of buying devices + installing it could run up to $1000.

Would you shoot intruder without use your good judgement? My opinion is MUST see a threat first.

that's usually how we do it. identify the threat first and shoot. but it's not easy to do this in poorly-lit area. That's why we yell - I HAVE THE GUN! STOP! but if they do not comply, well then I'm sorry but it's justified to shoot.

Sorry, I disagree that it should be less gun restrictions... I support high gun restrictions that's how I support German gun law. I do not like the people use "self-defense" as an excuse to shoot the intruder when they do not have weapons with them or no threat toward them.

Do you really beleive that they use good judgement before shoot the intruder accord less gun restriction law?

High gun restriction means it makes it impossible or very difficult for owner to obtain protection for himself or have many legal implications to use it for protection. For example - I can own a gun in NJ but it was very difficult and lengthy. I cannot have a concealed permit. If there was an armed intruder in my house and I shot him in self-defense - I can be held liable for personal injury lawsuit. In short - NJ does not care if my life was in danger or not. Most gun owners do give sufficient warning before they shoot.

 

[Jiro]

Gun violence

Gun violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


wow, South Africa is higher

well.... it's Africa.... an unstable country with unstable government with unstable economy with unstable everything... South Africa's gun violence statistic should not be used as a case/demonstration for gun ban issue.

 

[Jiro]

[yt]IMaMYL_shxc[/yt]
Very simple rules -
1. OBEY OFFICER'S INSTRUCTIONS AT ALL TIME!
2. DO NOT ARGUE WITH OFFICER OR BE VERBALLY-ABUSIVE!
3. DO NOT PUT YOUR HANDS IN YOUR POCKET! KEEP YOUR HANDS VISIBLE AT ALL TIME
4. STAY IN YOUR VEHICLE AT ALL TIME UNLESS INSTRUCTED! again - See #2. That is what court is for - You can argue your case.

this driver was a fool. Look at 2:27 and continue for several seconds. The officer felt threatened because the driver was verbally abusive & argumentative and worst of all - HE PUT HIS RIGHT HAND IN HIS POCKET. What if he took out a knife or a small gun? The officer gave SUFFICIENT warning and the driver choose to ignore him and continued to walk back to his car with his hand in the pocket. The driver violated all 4 rules I mentioned.

[yt]KSG19c3elhQ[/yt]
Again - that lady violated 4 rules. COMPLY COMPLY COMPLY!

[yt]Kx018B3K1MM[/yt]
See what happens when officers do not have taser? Pepper spray won't work on him. Taser is SAFE FOR BOTH PARTIES!

Right now - tasers are being implemented with camera/mic so the courts can see if it's justified or not. I do support the use of taser because it's better than using gun! I'd really want one for my own self-defense as well. i do not take killing an intruder lightly but if he forces my hand... well sorry. I rather have taser than gun. I have a police-grade mace but it is still ineffective.

 

[jenni-m]

How many people own a gun?

I don't.

I know many many many many people don't own a gun.


We shouldn't have to obey the useless old amendment.

You don't have to 'obey' it. It is a right.

By your logic:

How many people are not another 'race' besides 'white'?
I'm not.

I know many many people who are not.

Or

How many people don't abuse drugs?
I don't

I know many many people who do not.


Or

How many people in possession of a firearm, use it to commit a crime?
The VAST majority DO NOT


Leading cause of death in the United States in 2002:
Top one is heart disease, at 39%
Next is cancer, at 23%

There are some diseases after this, in single digit percents...

Firearms, are in LAST PLACE at 1.2% (that is one POINT two percent)
Firearms Statistics Include Gang Warfare, Self Defense Shootings and Criminals Killed by Police

Motor vehicle deaths are higher, at 1.8%

Leading cause of accidental death:
Motor vehicles, at 43.7%

Accidental firearm discharges, again, LAST PLACE at 0.8%

I don't see anyone banning cars and fatty foods and carcinogens...

 

[jenni-m]

And also, from here:

Bureau of Justice Statistics Firearms and Crime Statistics

After 1996, less than 10% of nonfatal violent crimes involved firearm.

Percent of violent crimes involving firearms, 1993-2005




* According to the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) in 2005, 477,040 victims of violent crimes stated that they faced an offender with a firearm.

* Incidents involving a firearm represented 9% of the 4.7 million violent crimes of rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault in 2005.

* The FBI's Crime in the United States estimated that 66% of the 16,137 murders in 2004 were committed with firearms. [note, 16,137 at 66%, 10,650. compare THAT to the over one million people that die of other causes within a year, in the United States]

For more information about weapons used in homicide see:
- Weapons Section of Homicide Trends in the United States
- State and Local Homicide Trends and Characteristics in Data Online.



Also, compare those statistics to this:

Guns.

The number of privately owned guns in the U.S. is at an all-time high. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) estimates that there were about 215 million guns in 1999,1 when the number of new guns was averaging about 4.5 million (about 2%) annually.2 A report for the National Academy of Sciences put the 1999 figure at 258 million.3 According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, there were 60.4 million approved (new and used) NICS firearm transactions between 1994 2004.4 The number of NICS checks for firearm purchases or permits increased 3.2% between 2003-2004.

Gun Owners.

The number of gun owners is also at an all-time high. The U.S. population is at an all-time high (294 million), and rises about 1% annually.5 Numerous surveys over the last 40+ years have found that almost half of all households have at least one gun owner.6 Some surveys since the late 1990s have indicated a smaller incidence of gun ownership,7 probably because of some respondents` concerns about "gun control," residually due, perhaps, to the anti-gun policies of the Clinton Administration.

From http://www.nraila.org/issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=126

 

[jenni-m]

that's usually how we do it. identify the threat first and shoot. but it's not easy to do this in poorly-lit area. That's why we yell - I HAVE THE GUN! STOP! but if they do not comply, well then I'm sorry but it's justified to shoot.

The reason tac lights were invented.

 

[jenni-m]

Right now - tasers are being implemented with camera/mic so the courts can see if it's justified or not. I do support the use of taser because it's better than using gun! I'd really want one for my own self-defense as well. i do not take killing an intruder lightly but if he forces my hand... well sorry. I rather have taser than gun. I have a police-grade mace but it is still ineffective.

This is why I recommend something like either a pump shotgun, or say Benelli M4 Super 90, or really a Franchi SPAS-12.

You can use less lethal loads with these weapons, and also use lethal ammunition. Especially with the SPAS-12 or even SPAS-15, you can have lethal slugs in it, and bypass in a round or two of beanbag or rubber slugs... they will SURELY make the target rethink whatever threat they are presenting! And if they don't, you still have lethal slugs in your weapon.

Of course, a taser is very effective, and cheaper, but you only get one shot... if you have multiple threats, or miss, you are 'screwed'.

Furthermore, there are plenty of other special rounds for shotguns. Scare shot, 'flash' rounds, even chemical pellets like tear gas or mace. Police use these to indirect fire irritants to help debilitate or distract potential threatening subjects, while exposing themselves to less danger and being less lethal to the subject.

 

[Cheri]

Yes I can't understand why Americans believe in gun to kill for protect their life which I doesn't. It's really simple is LOCK the house/garage to protect human's life from intruder/attackers. We (many Europeans) believe in security system to protect our life

What if someone follows a person home and pushed their way in the victim's house?

 

[Jiro]

What if someone follows a person home and pushed their way in the victim's house?

for that, honey... my answer is -

(this is me at range today)
[yt]s2lshhtrwsk[/yt]

 

[Cheri]

for that, honey... my answer is -

(this is me at range today)
[yt]s2lshhtrwsk[/yt]

*never mess with jiro*

How do you KNOW that an intruder isn't armed? Did you frisk him first?

Sorry, couldn't help myself that line was hilarious. To be honest, I don't know anyone who had confront an intruder and frisk him.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

If you want to wait until they kill you first, be my guest. :roll:

Should I jump quickly and shot straight way without use good judgement?

Do you really think it's easy to argue in court after found out that the intruder do not have weapon with him/her?

First of all, Americans don't need a license in order to purchase a gun.

that's why I said an earlier that Gun law in Germany is different as in America.

They go thru a background check thru a law enforcement agency.

That's all?

If they want to go hunting, they get a hunting license for a special animal, during a specific season. A hunting license doesn't normally require "training" classes but provides the rules and limitations of the hunt. If a gun owner wants to carry a concealed weapon, then the owner takes classes, and must pass a written and performance test, and go thru a more extensive background check by a law enforcement agency.

We have hunter club few meter away from my house. Yes, they trained how to shot correctly.

If you want to own a gun then need reason in writing and also take classes how to shot correctly.

Private gun clubs might have additional training and rules.

Here in Germany is MUST, not "might".

Police departments don't usually train average citizens how to shoot.

Police told us at parental evening that they will be glad to give us answer and advise us how to shoot if we want to know.

Your post sounds unrealistic to me. Yes, I have been trained. Have you?

I would say the same about you as well because you said that you have been trained but you must have known that you have to train how to shot correctly, not just shot person's chest/head.

Why should I train because I choose to not own a gun?

My training taught me how to survive. It sounds like your "training" taught you how to care more about criminals' well being than your own family's survival.

My training taught me how to survive either. It sounds that your "training" taught you how to kill the intruder without use good judgement, no matter either they have weapon or not or they are teenager for go in wrong door or drunk "intruder" for go in wrong door? It's really scary...

I prefer the survival of my loved ones over the survival of an invading stranger.

Me either I was being train how to handle in correct way.

HELLO!!!! What if the attackers want you or your loved ones DEAD! Do you give them what they want?????

You mean to tell me that you have never read about a family or individual that did everything that the attackers ordered, and then were killed by the attacker?

HELLO? Please re-read my post... "Yes, we have to do what the attackers want. If we won´t do what they wants then we are dead!!!! If you want to remain alive then do what they wants".

How could you do if an intruder is front of you suddenly? Is it possible to run to get the gun from safety cupboard? Of course he would grab you if you run for get gun and then kill you.... or tried to get gun from under your bed pillow? I was being taught that it doesn't solve anything but dead!!!!! :roll:

IF you are bigger and stronger.
IF you are standing at the top of the stairs.
IF he doesn't have a weapon or an accomplice.
IF you can hide some where that is truly secure.
IF a bite or a scratch will actually stop a rapist or killer.

That's a lot of "ifs" to depend on.

Yes.

Look again:
"Again, I didn't know that we are allow to kill anyone accord self-defense. I guess it could be that America and German law is different."
Your post:
AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - Supremes Reject Death Penalty for Child Rapists...

I do not see anything in the link, you provided that I said Gun is an illegal in Germany but only said that "I guess it could be that America & German law is different"

Maybe it "looks" that way to you

Not "Maybe" but fact... It's not self-defense...

but I never said that.

Your own word; "A chest is a much bigger target".

Obviously if the intruder runs away I wouldn't chase him down guns blasting. You watch too many movies.

No, accord my American friend - the family of intruder would sue you for shoot
him IF he is OUT of your properly. It does the same here in Germany. I alarm police straight way as on the same as my hubby can run after him, not shoot him if he is OUT of my house property. I think you watch too many movies, not me... You think it's okay to jump quickly and fire straight way without use good judgement... You will face a lot of problem if you think it's self-defense to shot him if he already is out of your house property.

How do you KNOW that an intruder isn't armed? Did you frisk him first?

Simple answer: Normally, an intruder would held weapon before he/she break in our house. We can catch them and call police on them...

Frisk him first? I never know anyone did like that... Could you please provide me some source to support your claim?

Tell me what you learned in the self-defense class that enabled you to know if an intruder is unarmed.

HOW do YOU KNOW that an intruder doesn't have a weapon?

See above

 

[Liebling:-)))]

If it is truly self defense, then that is not a "claim", it is fact. If it's not self defense then "claiming" it is won't get anyone off the hook.

Only if they handle correctly...

Criminals don't obey laws, and that includes gun law restrictions. That's why they are criminals.

No wonder, why they do not have gun liesence... and do not have high restricition which is too easy for them to get gun in illegal way...

A doctor? What does a doctor have to do with guns?

To examine/check their mentally background.

Who trains them?

Please go and re-read my posts.

Do you really expect a potential criminal to write down his reason for wanting a gun, "I want to rob, rape, and kill people"? Criminals lie.

That's why I said that their background and also record need to be check to compare their writing... The experts should use their good judgement on their writing...

That's the next trick that anti- 2nd Amendment supporters want to try in America.

we agreed that ban gun doesn't solve anything but use high restriction.

That's fine. I don't want to force other people to get guns. I also don't want anyone preventing law-abiding Americans from buying and keeping their own guns.

This is your choice as the same as everyone have their own choice as well.

Of course, gun ownership is not just about home protection from individual criminals but it is also about people protecting themselves from tyrants and foreign attackers.

I want to make sure first before I am going to response your post... Question: Is it a legal to carry a gun to the public (in your handbag or car?)

But that's starting a whole new topic.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Can you imagine how you feel if you didn't stop an intruder from kidnapping or killing your children?

Please do not use children as an excuse because you know that everyone try their best to protect their children when they do not have any gun in their household.

To answer your question about kidnapping...

Simple to fight them off to save children's life... if he/she do not have weapon.

Killing? How? if he/she do not have weapon?

How do you KNOW a person is unarmed?

Check my answer to your previous post at few minutes ago.

The police were being trained; what about average homeowners? The average person, even with some training, is not skilled enough to shoot out an attacker's legs in motion to the point of incapacitation. .

Yes, homeowners CAN train how to shoot leg or arm... or how to self-defense if they do not want to own a gun.

A chest is a much bigger target

It's unlawful of them to train you how to shoot chest .

 

[Jiro]

Question: Is it a legal to carry a gun to the public (in your handbag or car?)

Yes and No. USA gun law is very complicated because it varies state by state. Some states aka "Gold Star" does not require special permit (aka CCW - Concealed Carry Weapon). Gold Star states do allow OC (Open Carry). For NJ-NY - it is illegal to carry a gun to the public (except if you have CCW but it's rare to get one).

Open Carry of a Loaded Handgun

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I don't know about England, but the USA police didn't begin using Tasers until the late 1990s.

I already said that UK and German police do not use tasers. Accord my co-workers, USA police still use tasers... They said to me that the police officer use tasers to women as well...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

the guns could be stolen, imported from foreign nations, etc. just like people can get illegal drugs - both prescription and illegal (heroin, cocaine, etc.). does it mean we should ban it?

Exactly, that's what I said at earlier that ban gun doesn't solve anything.

oh well... it's unfortunate.. mistake happens but this is a few incidents compared to unarmed citizens (who are unable to obtain guns due to legal difficulty or ban) being killed.

But it's not easy to face in court either you handle it correctly or not.

That is the current law. we do get background check and mental health check. However - the way you do the mental health check is slightly different from us. If there is a file on someone that has a history of mental illness - then he/she does not qualify

.

That's good!!!

you can fake your symptom and get prescription drug. or you can pay someone with symptom to get it for you. it happens.

Nope, it's not possible to fake it because of insurance number card. Doctor have our healthcare insurance numbers... They use cerficate with my insurance number on it... and signuature before go to drug store...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Jiro123, I will answer some of your posts later. (I am going to fitness studio)

[yt]IMaMYL_shxc[/yt]
Very simple rules -
1. OBEY OFFICER'S INSTRUCTIONS AT ALL TIME!

Sure,

2. DO NOT ARGUE WITH OFFICER OR BE VERBALLY-ABUSIVE!

I can argue with Officer only if I handle in correctly way (polite way) instead of use foul language, verbally abuse, etc.

3. DO NOT PUT YOUR HANDS IN YOUR POCKET! KEEP YOUR HANDS VISIBLE AT ALL TIME

Would he threat me with gun or taser gun if I get something inside from my purse?

4. STAY IN YOUR VEHICLE AT ALL TIME UNLESS INSTRUCTED! again - See #2. That is what court is for - You can argue your case.

I don't go to court but inform the police that I am going to see lawyer if I felt he handle incorrectly.

this driver was a fool. Look at 2:27 and continue for several seconds. The officer felt threatened because the driver was verbally abusive & argumentative and worst of all - HE PUT HIS RIGHT HAND IN HIS POCKET. What if he took out a knife or a small gun? The officer gave SUFFICIENT warning and the driver choose to ignore him and continued to walk back to his car with his hand in the pocket. The driver violated all 4 rules I mentioned.

[yt]KSG19c3elhQ[/yt]
Again - that lady violated 4 rules. COMPLY COMPLY COMPLY!

[yt]Kx018B3K1MM[/yt]
See what happens when officers do not have taser? Pepper spray won't work on him. Taser is SAFE FOR BOTH PARTIES!

Right now - tasers are being implemented with camera/mic so the courts can see if it's justified or not. I do support the use of taser because it's better than using gun! I'd really want one for my own self-defense as well. i do not take killing an intruder lightly but if he forces my hand... well sorry. I rather have taser than gun. I have a police-grade mace but it is still ineffective.

I got someone to interpret what the 1st of 3 videos said. Unbelievable, because of refuse to sign a speed ticket? Oh my dear…

The driver did what the police officer stopped him and do not use foul languages or even physical threat a Police Officer when he was in the car. He repeated to explain about speed limit sign and “What’s the wrong with you”? “I don’t know why you doing this”… and told Police Officer to read him and his rights. Police Officer ignored him and force him to sign the ticket.. A driver stays hard and said that he would not sign a ticket.

Yes he has the right to speak out if he felt being treat wrongly by police officer in manner way. Police Officer should say to him to report with reason in writing within week or suggest him to see his lawyer…

The driver did what the police officer ordered him to step out of his car before police officer was walked back to his car with driver’s papers… A driver walked to him and repeated to point out the speed limit sign to police officer. Police Officer ignored him and said to him. “Turn around” A driver did what the police officer said… suddenly he pulled out his taser toward him… A driver replied: “What’s wrong with you”. He tasered his back. It frighten his wife… the police told her to go back in the car and then walked to her and threaten her to go jail when she was in the car.

The fact is refuse to sign a ticket is not a crime when a driver felt it’s wrong.

Would you accept punishment for a crime you feel you did not commit? That’s exactly how a driver felt that he did not commit a crime.

To my view on video, I think the police officer overreacted, inexperienced/unprofessional. I cannot believe that police officer shoot electricity to a driver whom he did not use foul language or physical threat toward police officer. It looks like police officer felt threatened when a driver tried to point out the speed limit sign?

Is it wonderful to leave wife alone middle on the road?

All what I want to ask to not assume that the man is wrong without know the fact… You know some polices violate the laws. I need updated about this situation…



2nd video - common to threat/hurt women like that... including teenagers as well...