Supreme Court to consider D.C. Handgun Ban

[Liebling:-)))]

Interesting links.

Gun supporters,
I read all the 3 links until I spot first of 3 links... Okay, I would like to have your answer to this link author's question under "What Would You Do?" Would you go for your gun? . Would you do that if the intruder or attacker are already IN your house?

rape,domestic violence,crime tips,home invasions,pepper spray

Self Defense and Personal Protection Blog » Crime Prevention

Journal of Non-lethal Combatives: Legal Self-defense



Interesting post, Puyo... Let them answer your post.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Jiro123'spost from other thread.

Liebling - I admire your such utmost respect for preservation of life - even if your life is in danger. However... it would be stupid if you died for nothing to some lowly thug. Since you have an incredibly strong stance against killing a life - you should get a non-lethal weapon such as taser gun or a shotgun that shoots beanbag.

Mind you - assuming you are a sharpshooter and can shoot at arm/leg with ease... you do realize that he can most likely bleed to death - major artery bleed so this is more cruel and painful than shooting to kill.

I prefer to use pepperspray over gun because I do not feel like to shoot because I know for the sure that I am not good shooter. Yes, I know for the sure that I shot to kill them.

Well, non-lethal weapon, taser gun etc what you suggested doesn't solve anything... but risk my life and my family if I do that or fight back... If I want to stay alive for myself and my family's sake then keep calm down and do what an intruder says... One of my family can make sure that intruder do not see that we have mobile phone... hide from the intruder - just press the mobile phone button to call the police (text and address, etc are prepare in mobile phone).

Stay calm down would be less problem for an intruder... If not, then would end to risk my & my familiy's life. If you think you can fight to beat intruder with your strong willing then is good.

The simple solution is protect myself and my family's life is LOCK the doors and windows/garage. If I want to go out alone then use safety public, not in the forest. If I want to park my car then do that in garage or public park place.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

high restriction? how? it is nearly no different from ban.

I gave 2 links about Europe gun law in my previous post.

I would add bit more to my post here...

Look at your country, many people use guns to shoot to kill the people and claim that it's "self-defense"... Many intruders/attackers have guns... that's why I suggest it should be gun law with high restriction. To prevent the people to use "self-defense" as an excuse to make themselves as crime to hurt the people... German law, they make sure people's background first thru doctor... train with gun... question & answer why they want gun for... etc. etc. etc. Not too easy for the people to buy the guns to hurt other people... The gun shop is obliage to ask the gun owner for ID # and liescne # before write down bullet numbers and sell bullets to gun owners which is easy for police to search the numbers thru their ID #.

Many Germans do not interest to buy guns or weapon... If they want self-defense then go to class... All what we think is our safety is LOCK the doors and windows/garage... That's it.

 

[Jiro]

Yes I would say the same thing as well.

Yes I can't understand why Americans believe in gun to kill for protect their life which I doesn't. It's really simple is LOCK the house/garage to protect human's life from intruder/attackers. We (many Europeans) believe in security system to protect our life.

We beleive in protect our life is go safety public...

At self-defense class, we were being recommended to use pepperspray to spray intruder/attacker's face to help us to escape out of house...

well - it is pretty much a known thing that "self-defense" class which is hand-to-hand combat is pretty much useless because of many reasons:

1. you must be constantly trained in it to make it effective - that nobody has time to do nor is interested in doing so
2. self-defense means close-proximity danger - you are allowing danger zone to be extremely close to you thus increasing danger/risk for you and your family
3. using gun does not require further "mastery" training like self-defense class
4. many people are not physically fit to execute the self-defense techniques
5. the violence occurs in just about everywhere, not just your home. My friend was mugged at gunpoint at subway station - a well-lit place but nobody around because it was late. My other friend was mugged at his apartment parking lot in a relatively safe wealthy town.
6. pepper spray is ineffective and useless which is why police do not use it often - and which is why they liked taser.
7. since you emphasize a lot on self-defense.... look at our police officers. they have used batons, maces, etc. and none of these work effectively because the criminals are drug-induced or adrenaline-induced. Many officers are either killed in the line of duty or injured. Taser is the latest non-lethal weapon which works very effectively.
8. most of crimes are over within less than 2 min and police takes about 7-10 minutes to arrive to you.
9. GPS in your cellphone is not accurate - it only gives them an approximation. I would not depend on it with my life.
10. many of us cannot afford alarm system and handful of us do not live in private home (we cannot modify/upgrade security systems). alarm system does not prevent intruder from breaking thru the window or door.
11. taser is a highly effective non-lethal weapon and can quickly/easily/harmlessly subdue the intruder - regardless his state of mind or health. It won't matter if he's drug-induced. the taser will bring him down with GUARANTEE.
12. most of non-lethal weapons (taser, pepper spray, etc.) are ILLEGAL in certain states but guns are legal I find this incredibly stupid and ironic. NJ banned taser and NY banned taser/pepper spray as well. Why? because these were commonly used to rape the victims. I'd rather use taser over gun around here but the politicians are not making this any easier for us. Nobody wants to kill anybody.


The benefit of having gun as an option outweighs the negative. Like i said - it's an option which means YOU can choose to use it or not. It is pretty simple. In an armed neighborhood - it is intruder's CHOICE to commit the crime or not while knowing that he may be killed in the process. Do you think the bank robber with a toy gun expects to steal money without any trouble? No sir... he chooses that risk of getting killed in the process of bank robbery by bank security guard or police officer or armed citizen - even if he's using a toy gun.

It's pretty simple to me - I am the one with the gun in my home and the intruder can choose to walk away or violate me. If he chooses to violate me, then I have no problem shooting him - I do not care if he dies or lives. that is his choice and not my problem. I've seen a couple of security video clips where a person shot the intruder in self-defense and then walked up to him and shoot some more to finish him off - that is MURDER.

I only ask that there be less gun restrictions but require regular mandatory gun trainings. that's all. Rule #1 - USE YOUR JUDGMENT WISELY AND TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION WHEN ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY

 

[Jiro]

Look at your country, many people use guns to shoot to kill the people and claim that it's "self-defense"... Many intruders/attackers have guns... that's why I suggest it should be gun law with high restriction. To prevent the people to use "self-defense" as an excuse to make themselves as crime to hurt the people... German law, they make sure people's background first thru doctor... train with gun... question & answer why they want gun for... etc. etc. etc. Not too easy for the people to buy the guns to hurt other people... The gun shop is obliage to ask the gun owner for ID # and liescne # before write down bullet numbers and sell bullets to gun owners which is easy for police to search the numbers thru their ID #.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are you implying that our system is lax. We do have stringent process - exactly same as yours. We do FBI/ATF/etc. background check and 2 references. many intruders/attackers have ILLEGAL guns. so how do we citizens defend ourselves against them? Do not think it's easy to claim it as self-defense. they get thoroughly investigated.

Do we have to screen and check to make sure that the people who buy pharmacy drugs are honest and would take it as directed by their doctors? What if they buy drugs to kill themselves or to poison others?

 

[Jiro]

If I want to park my car then do that in garage or public park place.

that's where women get raped or mugged and that's how my friend got mugged as well You are not safe anywhere. Everytime I'm out, I assume each person on street is hostile (well I'm not that paranoid - but I just keep heightened awareness of my situation). it's my 2nd nature to quickly analyze the threat matrix of each person I see and I do this unconsciously... maybe I'm that paranoid I'm always very wary about drivers because we all know road rage is a huge problem in here and some drivers do carry loaded guns inside their cars illegally.

 

[Hwy99]

Interesting post, Puyo... Let them answer your post.


[/FONT]

Yeah my families have pretty much of crazy events in the past and I even can tell more stories. I would love to see their opinions about that story I posted

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are you implying that our system is lax. We do have stringent process - exactly same as yours. We do FBI/ATF/etc. background check and 2 references. many intruders/attackers have ILLEGAL guns. so how do we citizens defend ourselves against them? Do not think it's easy to claim it as self-defense. they get thoroughly investigated.

As what you said that gun restriction in your country is an exact same as mine which mean is high restriction.

Question: How intruders/attackers get illegal guns from?

*talk general* If you want to own a gun to defend your life then use your good judgement.

See the example:
Cleared: family man who killed a 'burglar' | News Is it okay to make quick judge like this?


I'm trying to say that every American should get background check and mental health check should be able to carry a gun or not. Many innocent people are being killed because the gun is easy for the killer to shot or many "innocent" intruders are killed because the gun is easy for the owner to use as self-defense (check the example of link).

Do we have to screen and check to make sure that the people who buy pharmacy drugs are honest and would take it as directed by their doctors? What if they buy drugs to kill themselves or to poison others?

Here in Germany, the Drugstore do not allow to sell drugs to customers without doctor's signuature. (they are allows to sell drugs for headaches, vitamins tablets or powder, etc without doctor's signature). It's doctor's responsibity to check patient's last drugs before she/he can write the drugs for them to go drugstore to get some.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

that's where women get raped or mugged and that's how my friend got mugged as well You are not safe anywhere. Everytime I'm out, I assume each person on street is hostile (well I'm not that paranoid - but I just keep heightened awareness of my situation). it's my 2nd nature to quickly analyze the threat matrix of each person I see and I do this unconsciously... maybe I'm that paranoid I'm always very wary about drivers because we all know road rage is a huge problem in here and some drivers do carry loaded guns inside their cars illegally.

Yes I can understand... It's really sad that we live in danger world like that, that's why we try to positive our life what we can... We look for the safe place with good environment for the children upbringing so we choose to live in villiage, countryside over big cities. I aware that it's not 100% safety but I try my best what I can to protect myself and my children's life.

Yes, it's normal to worry about something but it should not think negative too much to make worst. Try to positive something to think about safety...

If I want to jogging alone at nights then do that at public where they can see me, not in the wood alone... If I want jogging in the wood then get friend or partner to go with me...

If we want our safety then go to public - we do not have any experience with guns here in Germany - maybe large cities like Berlin and Frankfurt...

I know it's not easy but we try our best what we can and try to not think negative too much.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Reba, I quoted first post remain unchanged so I re-quote your post to answer.

Did you think that you should just let attackers kill you and your loved ones?

What I answered in my first post remain unchanged:

Here is link... What about this?
Cleared: family man who killed a 'burglar' | News

Can you imagine how you feel if you shot to kill the neighbor's teeneager who open your door for mistake?

I can't see it's legal to shoot a man with no weapons for break into your house.

What good is shooting an attacker's legs? If he has a gun, he can still shoot you. If he is high on meth, he won't feel the leg pain, and will keep coming after you. (That's presuming that you are such a skilled shooter that you can aim and hit two moving legs while under stress.) Do you have that much skill, distance, time, and composure to do all that

Whoever "trained" you to wait and shoot at legs doesn't know much about defensive shooting?

That's why I decide that gun is not right for me because I know for the sure that I CAN'T do that. Yes, I work for police before I was married... They were being trained to shot legs and arms.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

for long post... I read carefully... I can see that there're cons/pros in your list which is interesting...

1. you must be constantly trained in it to make it effective - that nobody has time to do nor is interested in doing so

Here in Germany is MUST... if you want to own a gun.

2. self-defense means close-proximity danger - you are allowing danger zone to be extremely close to you thus increasing danger/risk for you and your family

Yes, that's why we are prepare... All what we do is positive something to be our safety.

3. using gun does not require further "mastery" training like self-defense class

Here in Germany is MUST.

4. many people are not physically fit to execute the self-defense techniques

Unfortunlately yes, but we have choice to do something to protect our life.

5. the violence occurs in just about everywhere, not just your home. My friend was mugged at gunpoint at subway station - a well-lit place but nobody around because it was late. My other friend was mugged at his apartment parking lot in a relatively safe wealthy town.

Yes, we live at kind of world like this which is really sad, that's why I choose to not live in big cities in Germany but village, countryside or small town with good envirnment.

6. pepper spray is ineffective and useless which is why police do not use it often - and which is why they liked taser.

http://www.alldeaf.com/current-events/47090-we-need-ban-taser.html

http://www.alldeaf.com/topic-debates/47270-speeding-ticket-taser.html

You will see plenty of taser threads in this link.

AllDeaf.com - Search Results

If you want to search "taser" then go to Search and type "taser" then it will come then you will know more why ADers are not for taser.

I didn't know that police use peppersprays because we (people) use peppersprays... It says that pepperspray helps real alot...

7. since you emphasize a lot on self-defense.... look at our police officers. they have used batons, maces, etc. and none of these work effectively because the criminals are drug-induced or adrenaline-induced. Many officers are either killed in the line of duty or injured. Taser is the latest non-lethal weapon which works very effectively.

Yes, I know. I used to work for police criminal unit in London for 5 years before I married and move to Germany. I used to watch police training every Wednesday. Some police were being killed and some not. It's not alway safety but they did their best what they can. All what I know is they don't use taser.

8. most of crimes are over within less than 2 min and police takes about 7-10 minutes to arrive to you.

That's why I was being advised to calm down and do what they says like Bank Robbers. It would risk your life less than 2 minutes if you are panic and try to fight back or shot...

9. GPS in your cellphone is not accurate - it only gives them an approximation. I would not depend on it with my life.

It works on people that's why we are being recommend to prepare our cellphone... If any case, then just press the button without intruder/attacker see...

10. many of us cannot afford alarm system and handful of us do not live in private home (we cannot modify/upgrade security systems). alarm system does not prevent intruder from breaking thru the window or door.

But security system cost not much than gun? Try to compare the prices between security system and gun, liescne, etc. Just press the cellphone's button to alarm the police before the intruder try to break thru the window or door. Like what I said before, lock the window and door to be safety... It cost not much...

11. taser is a highly effective non-lethal weapon and can quickly/easily/harmlessly subdue the intruder - regardless his state of mind or health. It won't matter if he's drug-induced. the taser will bring him down with GUARANTEE.

Check links above over tasers.

12. most of non-lethal weapons (taser, pepper spray, etc.) are ILLEGAL in certain states but guns are legal I find this incredibly stupid and ironic. NJ banned taser and NY banned taser/pepper spray as well. Why? because these were commonly used to rape the victims. I'd rather use taser over gun around here but the politicians are not making this any easier for us. Nobody wants to kill anybody.

wow, Yes I agree with you on this... It make no sense to make taser, pepperspray, etc as an illegal, not gun BUT you raise a good point over rape issues. Yes they could use peppersprays or taser on victim before rape them. I can see that there're cons/pros... mmmhhh

The benefit of having gun as an option outweighs the negative. Like i said - it's an option which means YOU can choose to use it or not. It is pretty simple. In an armed neighborhood - it is intruder's CHOICE to commit the crime or not while knowing that he may be killed in the process. Do you think the bank robber with a toy gun expects to steal money without any trouble? No sir... he chooses that risk of getting killed in the process of bank robbery by bank security guard or police officer or armed citizen - even if he's using a toy gun.

Truth is: some robbers use toy gun to threat bankers here in Germany... I learn from police criminal on TV once a month... (they ask us for help to look for crimes, etc. their descripton helps us to search intruder/attacker... ) including self-defense etc.

It's pretty simple to me - I am the one with the gun in my home and the intruder can choose to walk away or violate me. If he chooses to violate me, then I have no problem shooting him - I do not care if he dies or lives. that is his choice and not my problem. I've seen a couple of security video clips where a person shot the intruder in self-defense and then walked up to him and shoot some more to finish him off - that is MURDER.

Would you shoot intruder without use your good judgement? My opinion is MUST see a threat first.

I only ask that there be less gun restrictions but require regular mandatory gun trainings. that's all. Rule #1 - USE YOUR JUDGMENT WISELY AND TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION WHEN ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY

Sorry, I disagree that it should be less gun restrictions... I support high gun restrictions that's how I support German gun law. I do not like the people use "self-defense" as an excuse to shoot the intruder when they do not have weapons with them or no threat toward them.

Do you really beleive that they use good judgement before shoot the intruder accord less gun restriction law?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Gun violence

Gun violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


wow, South Africa is higher

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Are you sure?....
BBC News | UK | Handgun crime 'up' despite ban

and more....
Just For Skeptics: Myth #3: Gun Control Has Reduced The Crime Rates In Other Countries

Sorry I has to disagree with those links, you posted. Yes I agree that UK's crime rate is higher to compare with all of Europe countries but it has nothing do with gun control.

I also disagree with that article written "* Over the last 70 years, Europe has averaged about 400,000 murders per year, when one includes the murders committed by governments against mostly unarmed people.17 That murder rate is about 16 times higher than the murder rate in the U.S."


It shows that South Africa is higher crime in the world.

Crime in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

GunCite-Gun Control-International Homicide Comparisons

Murder Rate in the United States and Germany - Atlantic Review - Analysis of Transatlantic Relations and U.S. Foreign Policy

 

[Reba]

How do I know they want to attack me? How do I know they have weapons or not? Should I fire them straight way and then say it´s self-defense when they did not do something to us yet?

If you want to wait until they kill you first, be my guest. :roll:

Of course - hunting club, police or gun shop... Don´t they train you how to shoot before get liescne?

First of all, Americans don't need a license in order to purchase a gun. They go thru a background check thru a law enforcement agency. If they want to go hunting, they get a hunting license for a special animal, during a specific season. A hunting license doesn't normally require "training" classes but provides the rules and limitations of the hunt. If a gun owner wants to carry a concealed weapon, then the owner takes classes, and must pass a written and performance test, and go thru a more extensive background check by a law enforcement agency.

Personally, my first training with a handgun was in the Navy. Later, I got a concealed carry permit after taking the course and passing the test.

Private gun clubs might have additional training and rules.

Police departments don't usually train average citizens how to shoot.

Very interesting... Your post sound "paraniod" to me. It look like that you didn´t get train or are being informed?​

Your post sounds unrealistic to me. Yes, I have been trained. Have you?

My training taught me how to survive. It sounds like your "training" taught you how to care more about criminals' well being than your own family's survival.

I prefer the survival of my loved ones over the survival of an invading stranger.

:roll: Yes, we have to do what the attackers want. If we won´t do what they wants then we are dead!!!! If you want to remain alive then do what they wants.

HELLO!!!! What if the attackers want you or your loved ones DEAD! Do you give them what they want?????

You mean to tell me that you have never read about a family or individual that did everything that the attackers ordered, and then were killed by the attacker?

Yes, I can hurt them if I am stronger enough to defend against him... Perhaps I push him to stairs...???? to hurt or kill them... Never know... or bite or scratch them and run to hide and call the police....

IF you are bigger and stronger.
IF you are standing at the top of the stairs.
IF he doesn't have a weapon or an accomplice.
IF you can hide some where that is truly secure.
IF a bite or a scratch will actually stop a rapist or killer.

That's a lot of "ifs" to depend on.

who says that self-defense is an illegal in Germany? I do not see anything that I say...

Look again:
"Again, I didn't know that we are allow to kill anyone accord self-defense. I guess it could be that America and German law is different."
Your post:
AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - Supremes Reject Death Penalty for Child Rapists...

... It look intend to me if you shoot an intruder´s head or chest dozen of times... It´s not right self-defense but intend to kill.

Maybe it "looks" that way to you but I never said that.

I would do whatever it takes to stop an attacker. Most likely that would not take shooting "dozen of times" (which would require reloading anyway).

It´s not right self-defense to shot several on him because an intruder did not hurt or tempt kill you. Leave intruder alone if he saw me and then run away panic... and then call the police.

Obviously if the intruder runs away I wouldn't chase him down guns blasting. You watch too many movies.

It´s still wrong to shot when you know an intruder do not have weapon. We trained how to do with self-defense... I was trained at self-defense course before...

How do you KNOW that an intruder isn't armed? Did you frisk him first?

Tell me what you learned in the self-defense class that enabled you to know if an intruder is unarmed.

Do you kill a stranger with gun that´s because you know he break in your house to steal your foods and do not have weapon?

HOW do YOU KNOW that an intruder doesn't have a weapon?

I was being trained to not panic... Alway have mobile phone with me if any case happened... Emergency was already fix in my mobile phone... If I see intruder in my house then press the mobile phone button... This is a simple.

Not panicking--that's good!

After you press the emergency phone number, does the intruder stop attacking? Maybe you could throw the phone at his leg.

 

[Foxrac]

You can't kill or overturn the 2nd Amendment, you are struck with gun rights if resident of USA.

Just for Liebling.

 

[Reba]

...At self-defense class, we were being recommended to use pepperspray to spray intruder/attacker's face to help us to escape out of house...

Remember, don't stand downwind of the pepper spray.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

You can't kill or overturn the 2nd Amendment, you are struck with gun rights if resident of USA.

Just for Liebling.

I choose to not own a gun.

 

[Reba]

Look at your country, many people use guns to shoot to kill the people and claim that it's "self-defense"...

If it is truly self defense, then that is not a "claim", it is fact. If it's not self defense then "claiming" it is won't get anyone off the hook.

Many intruders/attackers have guns... that's why I suggest it should be gun law with high restriction.

Criminals don't obey laws, and that includes gun law restrictions. That's why they are criminals.

German law, they make sure people's background first thru doctor...

A doctor? What does a doctor have to do with guns?

train with gun...

Who trains them?

question & answer why they want gun for... etc. etc. etc. Not too easy for the people to buy the guns to hurt other people...

Do you really expect a potential criminal to write down his reason for wanting a gun, "I want to rob, rape, and kill people"? Criminals lie.

The gun shop is obliage to ask the gun owner for ID # and liescne # before write down bullet numbers and sell bullets to gun owners which is easy for police to search the numbers thru their ID #.

That's the next trick that anti- 2nd Amendment supporters want to try in America.

Many Germans do not interest to buy guns or weapon... If they want self-defense then go to class... All what we think is our safety is LOCK the doors and windows/garage... That's it.

That's fine. I don't want to force other people to get guns. I also don't want anyone preventing law-abiding Americans from buying and keeping their own guns.

Of course, gun ownership is not just about home protection from individual criminals but it is also about people protecting themselves from tyrants and foreign attackers.

But that's starting a whole new topic.

 

[Reba]

...Can you imagine how you feel if you shot to kill the neighbor's teeneager who open your door for mistake?

I can't see it's legal to shoot a man with no weapons for break into your house.

Can you imagine how you feel if you didn't stop an intruder from kidnapping or killing your children?

How do you KNOW a person is unarmed?

That's why I decide that gun is not right for me because I know for the sure that I CAN'T do that. Yes, I work for police before I was married... They were being trained to shot legs and arms.

The police were being trained; what about average homeowners? The average person, even with some training, is not skilled enough to shoot out an attacker's legs in motion to the point of incapacitation. A chest is a much bigger target.

 

[Reba]

I'm trying to say that every American should get background check and mental health check should be able to carry a gun or not...

The problem with a mental health check is that it reminds me of the Soviet Union way of "diagnosing" political and religious dissidents as "mentally ill", and sending them away to Siberian gulags.

That's just my personal opinion, worth less than two cents, I'm sure.