substituting or is this what he hears?

[Babyblue]

I dont use her daughter against her...using my daughter against me after all the trauma I went through with her. That is SICK.

That is what people do when they start grasping straws.

 

[shel90]

Can you show me? Csign and Grendel weren't even members back then, so why are you holding it against them?

Did I talk about them?

I talked about Rick and FJ and there were others who supported that philosophy but GrendalQ supported them for their philosophy.


I dont know how CSign got into this as she didnt post in this thread as far as I know, so why are you bringing her up?

Never mind..I see that she did but that was a while back ago. Wasnt even thinking about her.

 

[deafskeptic]

Wow What a WAY to twist my words!!!

Oh my god!!! How dare you!

Anyone who knows me knows the reason for it. It was BECAUSE I WAS LEARNING ASL AT THE TIME SHE WAS BORN AND I MADE THE FREAKING MISTAKE OF SIM-COM WITH HER HENCE SHE DIDNT HAVE EXPOSURE TO ASL SO SHE IS NOT AROUND IT AS SHE WAS FLOATING BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN MY HEARING EX HUSBAND AND I IN A BAD SITUATION.

ANYONE WHO KNOWS ME KNOWS HOW MUCH I REGRET NOT TURNING MY VOICE OFF WITH HER!!!

WANT TO GO LOW...LETS GO!

MY HEARING SON IS FLUENT IN ASL BECAUSE I DIDNT REPEAT MY MISTAKE WITH STUPID SIM-COM

And for the record, SEE is not the same as SIM-COM.

 

[rebeccalj]

I dont use her daughter against her...using my daughter against me after all the trauma I went through with her. That is SICK.

Totally uncalled for Shel. Anyone who read here *know* how much you love your children and that you always try to do what is best for them.

Cannot believe that post stayed. Wow!

 

[DeafCaroline]

Not the parents here....

And just because you think that a choice is right for one specific child doesn't mean you think that it is true for all kids.

I can agree on that.

I still dont think putting a child who doesn't have access to hearing in a hearing school is a smart or even kind thing to do. are you in disagreement with me on this?

 

[shel90]

Not the parents here....

And just because you think that a choice is right for one specific child doesn't mean you think that it is true for all kids.

Think is it ok to restrict a child from exposure to ASL and the Deaf community?

 

[Deafguy25]

Did I talk about them?

I talked about Rick and FJ and there were others who supported that philosophy but GrendalQ supported them for their philosophy.


I dont know how CSign got into this as she didnt post in this thread as far as I know, so why are you bringing her up?

Here is my understanding of the parents here:

Rick- has an adult daughter who grew up with childhood implants. Mom knew ASL but daughter didn't use it. Daughter grew up mainstreamed and graduated from college. Daughter now uses her implants and ASL.

FJ- has a daughter in early elementary school. The first 6 years of her life she used ASL and attended a Deaf bi-bi school. She was implanted and then started to learn spoken language. She now attends an oral deaf school but the family continues to sign and hang out with Deaf people.

Grendel- has a daughter in late preschool or Kindergarten. She attends a bi-bi school in a special class that includes some spoken language instruction. Family is learning ASL but daughter is more fluent. Daughter easily uses both spoken language and ASL. (Does she show a preference, Grendel?)

CSign- has a son in elementary school. He wears hearing aids and signs SEE. He is in a mainstream environment with an interpreter. The family is fluent in SEE and is learning ASL as well.

This is a pretty diverse group! But all four have used sign at one point or another. I haven't seen anything saying that they think all kids need to be oral only.

 

[Deafguy25]

And for the record, SEE is not the same as SIM-COM.

True!

 

[Deafguy25]

I can agree on that.

I still dont think putting a child who doesn't have access to hearing in a hearing school is a smart or even kind thing to do. are you in disagreement with me on this?

Not at all. I think that choosing spoken language for a child who does not have access to hearing spoken language is just asking for trouble.

 

[shel90]

Here is my understanding of the parents here:

Rick- has an adult daughter who grew up with childhood implants. Mom knew ASL but daughter didn't use it. Daughter grew up mainstreamed and graduated from college. Daughter now uses her implants and ASL.

FJ- has a daughter in early elementary school. The first 6 years of her life she used ASL and attended a Deaf bi-bi school. She was implanted and then started to learn spoken language. She now attends an oral deaf school but the family continues to sign and hang out with Deaf people.

Grendel- has a daughter in late preschool or Kindergarten. She attends a bi-bi school in a special class that includes some spoken language instruction. Family is learning ASL but daughter is more fluent. Daughter easily uses both spoken language and ASL. (Does she show a preference, Grendel?)

CSign- has a son in elementary school. He wears hearing aids and signs SEE. He is in a mainstream environment with an interpreter. The family is fluent in SEE and is learning ASL as well.

This is a pretty diverse group! But all four have used sign at one point or another. I haven't seen anything saying that they think all kids need to be oral only.

Wish you were here when all these threads with them were discussed when it came oralism only. CSign wasnt involved in any of them but Rick, Grendal and FJ were. It is hard to really repeat the long history with someone who has no idea. Others know what I am talking about.

 

[Deafguy25]

Think is it ok to restrict a child from exposure to ASL and the Deaf community?

It depends.

That is the best answer I can give to a general question like that.

My parents chose to mainstream me because I had a cochlear implant. At the time it was unheard of for a Deaf parent to implant their kid. Can you imagine the horrible things my family heard from the people who were supposed to be their community. So, was it good that they chose not to have me in the Deaf community at that time? Yeah.

 

[Deafguy25]

Wish you were here when all these threads with them were discussed when it came oralism only. CSign wasnt involved in any of them but Rick, Grendal and FJ were. It is hard to really repeat the long history with someone who has no idea. Others know what I am talking about.

You can't point to one thread or remember one thing that they said?

Did they simply say that it was ok for a parent to choose oral only (which it is, btw) or did they somehow say that all parents should, or that oral kids turn out smarter or some other crap like that?

 

[GrendelQ]

again, go back 5 years...

hmmm...pls go back to 5 years of history.

Again and again, I'm poring back through the old threads, and I don't see the people here saying there is no route but oral-only. I see a lot of your posts, Shel, in these discussions about language, but if you say you were going through an evolution at the time, I won't bring up others, because your perspective may now be different. And that's fine, we all change and grow. But why attack one member for starting with ASL-only and shifting to a bilingual approach when you yourself have changed approaches with your own children.

 

[GrendelQ]

You have implants. Completely different. do not compare yourself to kids who did NOT have access to decent hearing in mainstream settings and whose parents did NOT use ASL at home.

I completely agree! Very important distinction.

 

[DeafCaroline]

It depends.

That is the best answer I can give to a general question like that.

My parents chose to mainstream me because I had a cochlear implant. At the time it was unheard of for a Deaf parent to implant their kid. Can you imagine the horrible things my family heard from the people who were supposed to be their community. So, was it good that they chose not to have me in the Deaf community at that time? Yeah.

Well, actually, it might have been a good thing because maybe then their perceptions would have changed a bit. And you're in the deaf community now, how are they treating you?

Did your parents go to deaf schools? What was their reason for wanting to implant you?

 

[GrendelQ]

Wish you were here when all these threads with them were discussed when it came oralism only. CSign wasnt involved in any of them but Rick, Grendal and FJ were. It is hard to really repeat the long history with someone who has no idea. Others know what I am talking about.

You think that I would support someone saying that oral-only is the only successful approach, and yet raise my child bilingual and send her to a deaf school? And you think that FJ would do the same -- support oral-ony as the only way to go, while sending her child to a deaf school and using ASL-only at home, or even just this past year, moving to an oral school, but using ASL at home? Or Rick, who posted of his daughter's exposure to sign throughout her first years in that same thread I've pulled the other posts from.

 

[DeafCaroline]

Again and again, I'm poring back through the old threads, and I don't see the people here saying there is no route but oral-only. I see a lot of your posts, Shel, in these discussions about language, but if you say you were going through an evolution at the time, I won't bring up others, because your perspective may now be different. And that's fine, we all change and grow. But why attack one member for starting with ASL-only and shifting to a bilingual approach when you yourself have changed approaches with your own children.

Nothing wrong with a bilingual approach. Are you planning to keep that approach with your daughter's education all the way to end of high school?

 

[shel90]

Yes there are people here who have supported the oral-only route with no exposure to ASL as an option for deaf children. I disagree that such an approach should be available as an option for deaf chidlren.

Pls do not deny the fact that there were parents who supported other parents for going that route.

 

[Deafguy25]

You think that I would support someone saying that oral-only is the only successful approach, and yet raise my child bilingual and send her to a deaf school? And you think that FJ would do the same -- support oral-ony as the only way to go, while sending her child to a deaf school and using ASL-only at home, or even just this past year, moving to an oral school, but using ASL at home? Or Rick, who posted of his daughter's exposure to sign throughout her first years in that same thread I've pulled the other posts from.

I think the problem is that Shel does not believe it is ever ok for a deaf child to be in a spoken language environment. She has repeatedly said that. So, if you say that it is ok for even one child in one particular situation, she is saying that you believe that oral only is superior.

I disagree with this sentiment.

 

[shel90]

You think that I would support someone saying that oral-only is the only successful approach, and yet raise my child bilingual and send her to a deaf school? And you think that FJ would do the same -- support oral-ony as the only way to go, while sending her child to a deaf school and using ASL-only at home, or even just this past year, moving to an oral school, but using ASL at home? Or Rick, who posted of his daughter's exposure to sign throughout her first years in that same thread I've pulled the other posts from.

You certainly havent objected to others who have supported such approach, havent you?

Jillio was the only parent who loudly objected to that philosophy. If you have objected, it wasnt loudly enough.