substituting or is this what he hears?

[Deafguy25]

OMG..you are barking up in the wrong tree. My 2 students go to a language arts class where they use oral-only.

They have exposure to ASL and other Deaf chidlren.

ORAL ONLY???? That shouldn't be an option!

 

[DeafCaroline]

Spoken language is oralism. Do you not understand that?

And we are trying to tell you that shel does not support ORAL ONLY especially for deaf kids who cannot hear.

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

 

[DeafCaroline]

But not at school, right. All their instruction and learning must be done in ASL. And since their first language is obviously ASL, the family must become fluent and use it for communicating at home. How else would they possibly include the deaf child? Plus, since the learning at school is done in ASL, the parents would obviously have to use it to help with homework, chat about the day, etc. So, home and school languages must both be ASL....right?

That would be nice. wish I had that growing up.

 

[Deafguy25]

As far as I know - Shel has always been strongly for a "full tool-box" approach to education for any deaf/hoh child. ASL and oral. She does not push for one over the other that I have ever seen.

But she says that parents should not have the option of putting their child in a school that uses "oral only" (meaning a mainstream school or an oral deaf program).

 

[shel90]

But not at school, right. All their instruction and learning must be done in ASL. And since their first language is obviously ASL, the family must become fluent and use it for communicating at home. How else would they possibly include the deaf child? Plus, since the learning at school is done in ASL, the parents would obviously have to use it to help with homework, chat about the day, etc. So, home and school languages must both be ASL....right?

And there have been many hearing parents who have done that. What is stopping the others? The parents are there to FIT the child's needs NOT their own needs.

 

[AlleyCat]

Spoken language is oralism. Do you not understand that?

Totally. Apparently you don't. You don't seem to grasp what Shel is saying here.

 

[Babyblue]

ORAL ONLY???? That shouldn't be an option!

You are trolling now. You know exactly what she meant. It has been explained to you over and over.

So do not play stupid, when we all know what you are doing here.

 

[Deafguy25]

That would be nice. wish I had that growing up.

So when is this child going to learn to use spoken language? Can't do it at school and can't do it at home. When is the child going to have access to fluent spoken language to learn? You can't learn a language in one hour therapy sessions, you need exposure.

 

[GrendelQ]

Nothing wrong with a bilingual approach. Are you planning to keep that approach with your daughter's education all the way to end of high school?

Yes, bilingual forever, as long as she is willing and able. If both CIs fail, or for any other reason she no longer has access to sound and/or chooses ASL-only -- good for her. If she refuses to use ASL and chooses spoken language only -- good for her. Right now, she loves both methods of communication, I see no reason to emphasize one over the other. As far as her placement at a deaf school, we'll stay there as long as it's the best place for her in terms of academic and social well-being and we can continue to win the battles to keep her there, and we hope that will be the case for a long, long time.

 

[AlleyCat]

God paid him to be here.

God must be having a bad day.

 

[shel90]

But she says that parents should not have the option of putting their child in a school that uses "oral only" (meaning a mainstream school or an oral deaf program).

Right, I have never denied that. I dont believe in using the child's weakest sense when acquiring language, when learning in an academic setting, when participating in a classroom discussion, and in social situations at school. Why put deaf children through that stress?

But I do support a good Bibi program in a public school where the hearing kids learn ASL and interact iwth the deaf children.

 

[Deafguy25]

And there have been many hearing parents who have done that. What is stopping the others? The parents are there to FIT the child's needs NOT their own needs.

Then you aren't advocating for ASL and spoken language. You are advocating for ASL as the entire mode of communication with written English learned as a second language and speech learned as a skill in therapy.

At least be upfront about what you actually want.

 

[shel90]

So when is this child going to learn to use spoken language? Can't do it at school and can't do it at home. When is the child going to have access to fluent spoken language to learn? You can't learn a language in one hour therapy sessions, you need exposure.

There has been many who has done that who have gone to Deaf schools or used ASL at school...mannnnnyyyyy.

Pls do not say you are one of those who believes that ASL interferes with one's ability to use speech.

Also, my deaf brother has no speech skills and he is doing fine just as many others are.

it is about empowering them as deaf children, not treating them as "broken" hearing children.

 

[Deafguy25]

And we are trying to tell you that shel does not support ORAL ONLY especially for deaf kids who cannot hear.

Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

She not only doesn't support it, she wants to take it away as an option.

Which is waaaaay more than any parent here has ever said. Can you imagine if someone came in here and said that ASL should be outlawed and all Deaf schools should be closed down

 

[shel90]

Then you aren't advocating for ASL and spoken language. You are advocating for ASL as the entire mode of communication with written English learned as a second language and speech learned as a skill in therapy.

At least be upfront about what you actually want.

speech is spoken language.

How do I use spoken language...through speech. no differnce between the both.

 

[DeafCaroline]

So when is this child going to learn to use spoken language? Can't do it at school and can't do it at home. When is the child going to have access to fluent spoken language to learn? You can't learn a language in one hour therapy sessions, you need exposure.

You can't? I didn't learn to hear or speak better in a hearing school. All I would hear were mumbled voices - believe me, it did nothing to help me learn to speak or understand better. I learned to speak via therapy sessions and by being constantly corrected by not only both of my parents but also by my three sisters and one brother.

One learns to speak via therapy. None of my teachers or classmates taught me a single thing about speech or lipreading. Anyone who claims otherwise is ignorant.

 

[KristinaB]

But she says that parents should not have the option of putting their child in a school that uses "oral only" (meaning a mainstream school or an oral deaf program).

She, like countless other, myself included, has seen and experienced a lot of issues regarding that. She, like countless other's of us, feel that a Bi-Bi school would be better. She, like countless others of us, myself included, were raised in an oral only environment. She got lucky and leaned ASL a lot earlier than I did. I have at least 10 years on her in my age and am still trying to learn.

All Shel and countless others of us are saying, Do Not Put a Deaf Child In An Oral Only School. What happens if down the road, after that child grows up and there are problems with their CI or something like that. Heaven forbid, they end up like me and are total deaf with no HA or CI able to help. then, it would be a massive benefit if they knew ASL or their country's sign as a back-up. We have a child in my Deaf church, who is 3. She is total deaf. Like me, no CI or HA will help her at all. Do you think that child should go the oral route? No, she should and will be going with a Bi-Bi approach. She starts this next Fall at FSDB. Her family is moving up there. Turns out, her baby sister is also deaf and mom is expecting another.

 

[shel90]

She not only doesn't support it, she wants to take it away as an option.

Which is waaaaay more than any parent here has ever said. Can you imagine if someone came in here and said that ASL should be outlawed and all Deaf schools should be closed down

Keep up with many deaf children struggling with being mainstreamed and falling behind. Nice future vision for many.

Giving them both wont do that.

You still say that I want the ASL only route. Are you that dense? AlleyCat bolded it in loud colors for you.

 

[Deafguy25]

Yes, bilingual forever, as long as she is willing and able. If both CIs fail, or for any other reason she no longer has access to sound and/or chooses ASL-only -- good for her. If she refuses to use ASL and chooses spoken language only -- good for her. Right now, she loves both methods of communication, I see no reason to emphasize one over the other. As far as her placement at a deaf school, we'll stay there as long as it's the best place for her in terms of academic and social well-being and we can continue to win the battles to keep her there, and we hope that will be the case for a long, long time.

I agree with this completely.

 

[Babyblue]

Shel, This guy is just trolling you to get you. He is wasting his time trying to convince himself and others by twisting your words. People that have been here for a long time knows you support the full toolbox approach.