Some thoughts?

[jillio]

One child doesn't prove or disprove research. She is doing better than the kids at her VOICE-OFF school, because half of them don't do speech therapy or wear hearing aids.

You cannot conclude this without empirical evidence to support it. All you have in this case is anecdotal. Cause and effect cannot be determined from such. And keep in mind that any conclusion that you reach without empirical evidence is based largely on the fact that there is a specific cause that you want to be responsibile. That is far from an objective conclusion reached from research methods deemed to be valid and reliable and conducted by those who are experts in the field of research.

 

[jillio]

It seemed like a small and limited study and not very scientific since the judging was subjective.

Small, limited, biased, and questionable methodology. Conclusion: it is in no way generalizable to a whole population, it has serious limitations, and no ethical researcher would even recommend that it be used to draw generalizable conclusions.

 

[jillio]

Deaf programs are going to have to adapt. CI's are here, they aren't going away, and they actually work. If Deaf schools don't learn how to educate these students, their enrollment is going to fall even further.

Deaf schools already know how to educate these students. It is the parents who are questioning it, because their focus is on speech only.

 

[jillio]

But this study shows the opposite. Those children in oral only classes do BETTER than the kids with ASL. (in speech)

Again, not discussing MY child.

That isn't what this study shows at all. All it shows is that the limited number of children participating in this study achieved specific results using questionable methodology and questionable and subjective conclusions were drawn for these children only. You cannot generalize such to the entire population of children who are deaf and are using CIs because the population used in this study is not representative of such.

 

[jillio]

I don't know. I doubt I would care. I would want her to learn to read and write.

Again, CI's don't cause oralism, that has been around long before they were. I don't think parents are obsessed with speech. I think they are obsessed with language, and they use spoken language, so it can look similar from the outside.

You don't think parents are obsessed with speech, yet you have started at least two threads, and participated in numerous others, for no other reason that to question the valid and reilable results that have been obtained over years simply to question the use of ASL and the negative effects you think it has on speech? Do you see the contradiction here?

 

[shel90]

Deaf programs are going to have to adapt. CI's are here, they aren't going away, and they actually work. If Deaf schools don't learn how to educate these students, their enrollment is going to fall even further.

What am I ...chopped liver for not knowing how to educate deaf kids because I work at a Deaf school?

 

[jillio]

Cultural note: This is expected to be well received in a society where the greatest respect and the surest reward goes to the salesman. Not the doctor, the professor, the CEO, or even the football player, -- The salesman.

In this society the greater one's integration into the realm of the slick talker the greater the status. The high tech mecca of this group is "motivational research" which tells their clients to charge 98 cents rather than a dollar and to package their products in red and use oval shapes in their design. These things move the product faster at a better profit.

However those of us whose chosen cultural views veer toward the humanities find the salesman to be an empty husk of manipulation with no healthy corn inside -- Who has sold the would be kernels of his soul for thirty-six and one quarter shekels.

Hearing or Deaf or "Other" I want my child to succeed as a human being in their own right -- Not to compete in a cultural norm I find no value in.

Well said. What this entire discussion boils down to is parental focus. Is your main concern that your child be able to repeat words without comprehension and the ability to apply that language to thought processes, or do you want your child to be able to comprehend, use language as it is intended to be used...for cognition and to relate to the world around them...and develop into a free thinking and well adjusted adult?

 

[jillio]

What am I ...chopped liver for not knowing how to educate deaf kids because I work at a Deaf school?

That is the whole point. Educators already know what the best method for educating deaf children is. Conclusions are based on years of research, not a single article supported by a CI center. Methodology is based on the cognitive processing skills of deaf children, and focuses on their stregths in that area. It is the parents who have but one concern in mind...SPEECH... that question it.

 

[Mrs Bucket]

faire_jour, if I can make a suggestion to you?

You stated you are trying to teach Miss Kat to learn how to read and write. Instead of spending so much time and energy here, have you considered spending the exact time and energy with her?

It's baffling to me that you are willing to try to dispel quotes and myths when you should be spending time with your daughter.

Time spent with her now is vital to her learning years.

 

[shel90]

That is the whole point. Educators already know what the best method for educating deaf children is. Conclusions are based on years of research, not a single article supported by a CI center. Methodology is based on the cognitive processing skills of deaf children, and focuses on their stregths in that area. It is the parents who have but one concern in mind...SPEECH... that question it.

That's what makes this whole thing so sickening...educators who work at Deaf schools do not get much recognization nor praise for our hard work...we just constantly get criticized over and over again for things that are beyond our control. We are there to educate these children so they can have higher literacy skills, can solve problems, think abstractly, and so more but because of the obession with speech, Deaf education is at the place where it is now.

 

[jillio]

That's what makes this whole thing so sickening...educators who work at Deaf schools do not get much recognization nor praise for our hard work...we just constantly get criticized over and over again for things that are beyond our control. We are there to educate these children so they can have higher literacy skills, can solve problems, think abstractly, and so more but because of the obession with speech, Deaf education is at the place where it is now.

I udnerstand your frustration. Parents set up a never ending cycle of self fulfilling prophecy. They claim to be interested in doing that which will provide their child with the best education, but limit their focus to speech skills only. That creates the environment that actually allows their child to fail academicically and socially. Then, when they have created that situation, and gotten exactly the results they were warned they would get, they complain about the educational system's failure.

 

[Bottesini]

faire_jour, if I can make a suggestion to you?

You stated you are trying to teach Miss Kat to learn how to read and write. Instead of spending so much time and energy here, have you considered spending the exact time and energy with her?

It's baffling to me that you are willing to try to dispel quotes and myths when you should be spending time with your daughter.

Time spent with her now is vital to her learning years.

Think that falls on deaf ears. I already suggested in a different thread and she replied she took her to a pizza place.

 

[Berry]

Think that falls on deaf ears. I already suggested in a different thread and she replied she took her to a pizza place

.

But you posted it, did not say it.

Maybe it fell on blind eyeballs.

Maybe Hear Again needs to teach her braille.

 

[jillio]

But you posted it, did not say it.

Maybe it fell on blind eyeballs.

Maybe Hear Again needs to teach her braille.

 

[Daredevel7]

Oh look! I know someone who was raised orally and is doing perfectly fine.
Oh look! I know someone who was raised with ASL, can speak also, and does perfectly fine.
Oh look! I know someone who was raised with ASL, even though s/he has bad oral skills, s/he does perfectly fine.

What can we conclude from that? Nothing!

I'll be blunt here. Just because I'm in a devil-ish mood today.
Faire_jour, I am on your side, but it's becoming glaringly obvious that you're a little emotional when someone merely mentions your child (which is understandable) and also I think you want to get some confirmation/support from the deaf community for your possible plan of putting Miss Kat in a mainstream school.
Others, it's obvious that you're tired of faire constantly trying to get even one person to approve of the idea that oral only may not be a bad idea, and I suspect that some of you are bringing faire's daughter into the topic because you know it would irritate her.
Also, am I the only one who finds it incredibly ironic that the ones who are the most outspoken about subjects like this are those who are oral only who learned ASL or going to learn ASL later? Where are the native ASL users? Isn't there a difference between "I wish I had" and "I am so happy that I had"????

HINDSIGHT.....

 

[faire_jour]

What am I ...chopped liver for not knowing how to educate deaf kids because I work at a Deaf school?

All I can speak to is that Deaf schools are losing enrollment as CI's become more popular.
Anecdotally, my daughter's school has lost at least 4 Deaf students in the last year because they were unwilling to provide appropriate services after these students received CI's. One of them was from a Deaf family, all of them were fluent signing families.

 

[faire_jour]

faire_jour, if I can make a suggestion to you?

You stated you are trying to teach Miss Kat to learn how to read and write. Instead of spending so much time and energy here, have you considered spending the exact time and energy with her?

It's baffling to me that you are willing to try to dispel quotes and myths when you should be spending time with your daughter.

Time spent with her now is vital to her learning years.

I am never on AD when my daughter is available. Last night, she was on her Valentine's day with Daddy, today she has her weekly visit with great grandma.

 

[Bottesini]

But you posted it, did not say it.

Maybe it fell on blind eyeballs.

Maybe Hear Again needs to teach her braille.

Thought you made a big point that you were not a literal thinker? Metaphor?

 

[Bottesini]

All I can speak to is that Deaf schools are losing enrollment as CI's become more popular.
Antidotally, my daughter's school has lost at least 4 Deaf students in the last year because they were unwilling to provide appropriate services after these students received CI's. One of them was from a Deaf family, all of them were fluent signing families.

Antidote?? Your cure for deaf schools?

Or maybe you mean "anecdote?"

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Not with the research, but with their opinion? Ok.

Well I rather to accept BOTH sides to view on their real life experience and research, not just research.