Some thoughts?

[Bottesini]

Oh my god, now I'm pissed.

No, my daughter is actually doing very very well with her CI. She is speaking better than EVERY student in her school, and she has had it for 2 months.

I am TRYING to discuss research, done by professionals, reviewed and published by experts, that I happened to come across and wanted opinions on. Why does it always turn into blame games?

Thought you wanted thoughts from your title. If she is doing better than everyone else, you just disproved your own statement of ASL impeding speech since she has been raised with it.

You can't have it both ways.

 

[Babyblue]

My daughter uses ASL. She was born hearing, lost it quickly and now has a CI.

It is said here, a lot, that ASL doesn't impede speech. I am attempting to discuss whether or not that is true.

ASL does not impede speech.

I have stated over and over "HEARING LOSS" does.

I understand you child lost her hearing. Her speech will not be perfect. It will be that way with or without ASL. That is why she will be deprived if ASL isn't accessible to her.

 

[faire_jour]

It's sad when people emphasis so much on speech. I also don't trust any reasearch that claim that ASL delays speech. It just goes against logic.

People say have really good speech. What good does it do? Since I still have problems expressing exactly what I want to say at times.

Ok, what about the research do you have problems with? The methodology? The conclusions?

I don't think it is against logic. If a child hears and uses speech all day every day, they will get better at it. If their day uses sign too, they hear and use it less.

 

[faire_jour]

Thought you wanted thoughts from your title. If she is doing better than everyone else, you just disproved your own statement of ASL impeding speech since she has been raised with it.

You can't have it both ways.

One child doesn't prove or disprove research. She is doing better than the kids at her VOICE-OFF school, because half of them don't do speech therapy or wear hearing aids.

 

[faire_jour]

Has anyone bothered to read the research?

 

[dreama]

Thought you wanted thoughts from your title. If she is doing better than everyone else, you just disproved your own statement of ASL impeding speech since she has been raised with it.

Good point.

 

[Bottesini]

Has anyone bothered to read the research?

I did.

 

[faire_jour]

I did.

And?

 

[Babyblue]

Ok, what about the research do you have problems with? The methodology? The conclusions?

I don't think it is against logic. If a child hears and uses speech all day every day, they will get better at it. If their day uses sign too, they hear and use it less.

No one is against you teaching her to speak. or using speech. The problem is you feel that ASL will hinder her speech. That is not the case. ASL doesn't hinder speech. The hearing loss does.

 

[Bottesini]

And?

It seemed like a small and limited study and not very scientific since the judging was subjective.

 

[faire_jour]

No one is against you teaching her to speak. or using speech. The problem is you feel that ASL will hinder her speech. That is not the case. ASL doesn't hinder speech. The hearing loss does.

But this study shows the opposite. Those children in oral only classes do BETTER than the kids with ASL. (in speech)

Again, not discussing MY child.

 

[KarissaMann05]

Deaf programs are going to have to adapt. CI's are here, they aren't going away, and they actually work. If Deaf schools don't learn how to educate these students, their enrollment is going to fall even further.

So deaf children will not educated if they are not learning to speak or have a certian something, is that what you do mean?

 

[Bebonang]

If you are talking about research whether it is true or false. Don't forget we get pissed off also about speech that we, Deafies, can not hear the spoken word well at all. The CI debate kept telling us that CI works to improve speech but it is still telling us we are still Deaf no matter how old we are. It only acts like hearing aid. So the debate is we still want ASL to be able to understand what the hearing person is saying so that we don't have to struggle with our speech. We are suppose to be visual people. Lipreading, even with CI, is still hard to read struggling to understand and get lost many times. That is why it is important to have ASL in all functions like Schools and public places where we can have access to ASL interpreters and ASL teachers. If your daughter can speak and use sign language, then that is okay as long as your daughter is happy with it. You have to watch closely to see if she is happy in the language mode. If she is struggling with trying to understand like lipreading, then she need to apply herself with sign language like ASL. I do not want to piss everybody off but that is my thinking of what you want to know about the truth from us.

 

[faire_jour]

So deaf children will not educated if they are not learning to speak or have a certian something, is that what you do mean?

I mean that if parents don't believe that their children with CI's will get proper services, they will not enroll them in Deaf schools.

 

[faire_jour]

If you are talking about research whether it is true or false. Don't forget we get pissed off also about speech that we, Deafies, can not hear the spoken word well at all. The CI debate kept telling us that CI works to improve speech but it is still telling us we are still Deaf no matter how old we are. It only acts like hearing aid. So the debate is we still want ASL to be able to understand what the hearing person is saying so that we don't have to struggle with our speech. We are suppose to be visual people. Lipreading, even with CI, is still hard to read struggling to understand and get lost many times. That is why it is important to have ASL in all functions like Schools and public places where we can have access to ASL interpreters and ASL teachers. If your daughter can speak and use sign language, then that is okay as long as your daughter is happy with it. You have to watch closely to see if she is happy in the language mode. If she is struggling with trying to understand like lipreading, then she need to apply herself with sign language like ASL. I do not want to piss everybody off but that is my thinking of what you want to know about the truth from us.

She doesn't lipread, she hears with her CI.

 

[dreama]

Ok, what about the research do you have problems with?

The fact that they claim that sign language impeeds speach because I have read a lot of reasearch that shows that this is complete XXXX.

If you want to teach someone french you don't just start speaking french to them. You would have to start of by explaining what french words meant in their own language.

The same goes for spoken english.

A child who has no langage has more problem understanding anything. That includes reading, writing or SPEACH. So a child like that would have to be taught sign lanuage before they could even begin to learn.

I know a lot of orally taught deaf people. I don't know any of them without useful hearing. Even if they can speak and succeed accademically they tend to have problems and feel between two worlds. On the other hand the signing HOH people I know have no problem picking up either Speech or sign language. They can mingle with BOTH hearing and deaf Worlds and do much better for it. I wish I had been given that oportunity as a child.

 

[naisho]

One cannot conclude from these results that oral communication mode or mainstream class placement causes children with cochlear implants to develop high levels of speech intelligibility. Children with a propensity for spoken language may be guided toward oral and mainstream programs. Mainstream classroom placement before and immediately after cochlear implantation was not a significant predictor of later speech development. However, mainstreaming became a significant predictor of speech acquisition with increased cochlear implant use. This result suggests that as children became more intelligible, mainstream placement and greater interaction with normal-hearing peers was the result.

I'll say, if I'm guilty of not reading the article -- It's because I only read the abstract and conclusions. That's what I do when I want to speed read professional findings for just the cliff notes only.

The study basically concluded what I posted above, in their own words. In other words, "From the results we give, we cannot conclude anything about children with cochlear implants and their speech potential. But here is what we think: ---"

As for a conclusion about ASL or oral speech hindrance possibilities will have to be drawn in the art of opinions that vary from person to person, and possibly culture to culture until we can find a study that directly focuses on it.

 

[Babyblue]

I have read it as well.

My thoughts on this is that it is just a way to get parents to believe the crock that the CI center wants to make parents believe.

I still feel T.C. is the best method.

Especially for the social skills.

 

[faire_jour]

The fact that they claim that sign language impeeds speach because I have read a lot of reasearch that shows that this is complete XXXX.

If you want to teach someone french you don't just start speaking french to them. You would have to start of by explaining what french words meant in their own language.

The same goes for spoken english.

A child who has no langage has more problem understanding anything. That includes reading, writing or SPEACH. So a child like that would have to be taught sign lanuage before they could even begin to learn.

I know a lot of orally taught deaf people. I don't know any of them without useful hearing. Even if they can speak and succeed accademically they tend to have problems and feel between two worlds. On the other hand the signing HOH people I know have no problem picking up either Speech or sign language. They can mingle with BOTH hearing and deaf Worlds and do much better for it. I wish I had been given that oportunity as a child.

Actually, the fastest way to learn a language is doing just that. Immersion in a language is the best way to learn.

 

[KarissaMann05]

I mean that if parents don't believe that their children with CI's will get proper services, they will not enroll them in Deaf schools.

Wow...

Well, I went to Deaf school and graudated there without CI. =/ If it is today you are referred to, well, I think it's a shame.