Some children who are born deaf recover from their deafness

:gpost:

Anyways, to remind u..Cloggy and his daughter knows signs. From my understanding, they are not using it now but I remember he has stated if Lotte wants to go back to signing, he fully supports her for that. I know we all forget that he has learned ASL as well as his other kids have done due to the way he talks about sign language.

Correct me if I am wrong.

I think Norwegian Sign Language is Lotte's first language. I'm sure you've noticed that Cloggy's English isn't perfect as he's Dutch and his family moved to Norway a few years ago.
 
"Rick, I am under the impression that you're trying to discount our experiences with struggling to fit with the hearing. It may that that this isn't the impression you wanted to give."

TIMEOUT!!!

I am not attempting to discount anyone's experiences nor ignore the fact that a deaf child in a mainstream setting faces social issues that hearing kids do not. So you are correct, that is not the impression I was giving.

I thought instead of just going in shooting first and asking questions later, that I would ask DD first what she meant. I also know from past discussions with her, that although we differ on things, you ask her a question, you get an honest response. What I wanted to know was first, a definition of the term DD was using, so I could understand what she meant by a comment she frequently makes about oral deaf kids. Second, I wanted to know what was her factual basis as she frequently states that "many of them" have significant social issues.

In my personal experiences primarily involving oral mainstreamed ci kids that has not been the case so I am curious to see how widespread it is. From DD's response she compares the oral deaf kids to those with Asperger's and non-verbal symptoms, well my wife is a Spec Ed teacher and has had several Asperger kids and one non-verbal child and from her personal and professional experiences, it is not the best comparison. Also, I now know that DD's basis for using the term "many" comes from a reference from some book on methodologies that said some other research suggested that some, not "many", oral kids have significant social issues, it is not based upon personal experiences other than her own.

Having raised and continuing to raise a deaf child, I know that life is not always a "bowl of cherries" that there are disappointments and frustrations that my child and others have faced but I also personally know some really good kids, not "superstars", but nice kids, with good heads on their shoulders. They seem to have survived, like most, their high school years with some bad experiences mixed in with some positive ones. However, they do not give any outward appearances of suffering from "significant social issues". So why? Is it the ci? Is it the strong oral background? Is it the family environment? A combination of all three? Something else? Whatever it is, it is different from what others are describing. So please forgive me for having the audacity of asking questions, I guess it would have been more acceptable to have just told her she was wrong.

So, I guess I too must ask the same question: are you (not you personally) discounting my experiences? Why are you so quick to say that they are solely anecdotal? Why are my motives for asking a question challenged while you say nothing to others?
 
Cloggy it is TOO early for you to speak out on this. You do not understand that the CI kids of today are functionally hoh............which is what I am, and what I grew up as. With my hearing aids I have very good hearing.....like i can hear the tv on downstairs, i can hear my voice.....i'm pretty much "almost hearing".......and this isn't due to new digital hearing aids.
CI kids are NOT experiancing something totally new, like the way hearing aided kids back when aids started becoming popular, were the first generation to hear. But just b/c I'm "almost hearing" it doesn't mean that I didn't experiance the downsides of hearing people trying to make me like hearing kids. Hearing aids and CIs don't provide 100% equality. They are good tools, but users of them still will never be able to be in the hearing world 100%. Hey, even UNILATERAL dhh kids often have to have speech therapy or need to use FM or preferential seating in the classroom. Some of them have often said they wish that they could have learned Sign and speechreading growing up.

DD,

Is it still too early for me to speak out? After all, I have only had real life experiences of raising a ci child for almost 18 years.

Who are you or anyone else to say that it is too early for Cloggy to "speak out"? Parents like Cloggy have more experience with ci kids then the so-called "professionals" by virtue of raising them and dealing with issues each and every day.
Rick
 
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And yes, I do remember that Lotte used Signs. I think that rocks, and I think that if we had MORE parents like Cloggy, who were more child centered in their methodolgical approaches, there's be very few parents getting attacked by deaf activists.
However, I do disagree with his opinon that his daughter is now more "hearing then deaf" or that there's something magical about CIs that will somehow magically allow the users to be more pretty much hearing.
 
"Rick, I am under the impression that you're trying to discount our experiences with struggling to fit with the hearing. It may that that this isn't the impression you wanted to give."

TIMEOUT!!!

I am not attempting to discount anyone's experiences nor ignore the fact that a deaf child in a mainstream setting faces social issues that hearing kids do not. So you are correct, that is not the impression I was giving.

I thought instead of just going in shooting first and asking questions later, that I would ask DD first what she meant. I also know from past discussions with her, that although we differ on things, you ask her a question, you get an honest response. What I wanted to know was first, a definition of the term DD was using, so I could understand what she meant by a comment she frequently makes about oral deaf kids. Second, I wanted to know what was her factual basis as she frequently states that "many of them" have significant social issues.

In my personal experiences primarily involving oral mainstreamed ci kids that has not been the case so I am curious to see how widespread it is. From DD's response she compares the oral deaf kids to those with Asperger's and non-verbal symptoms, well my wife is a Spec Ed teacher and has had several Asperger kids and one non-verbal child and from her personal and professional experiences, it is not the best comparison. Also, I now know that DD's basis for using the term "many" comes from a reference from some book on methodologies that said some other research suggested that some, not "many", oral kids have significant social issues, it is not based upon personal experiences other than her own.

Having raised and continuing to raise a deaf child, I know that life is not always a "bowl of cherries" that there are disappointments and frustrations that my child and others have faced but I also personally know some really good kids, not "superstars", but nice kids, with good heads on their shoulders. They seem to have survived, like most, their high school years with some bad experiences mixed in with some positive ones. However, they do not give any outward appearances of suffering from "significant social issues". So why? Is it the ci? Is it the strong oral background? Is it the family environment? A combination of all three? Something else? Whatever it is, it is different from what others are describing. So please forgive me for having the audacity of asking questions, I guess it would have been more acceptable to have just told her she was wrong.

So, I guess I too must ask the same question: are you (not you personally) discounting my experiences? Why are you so quick to say that they are solely anecdotal? Why are my motives for asking a question challenged while you say nothing to others?


I didn't think you were trying to discount others but that's the impression you give to others sometimes. I don't mind you asking questions at all and I tend to ask a lot of questions but I rarely ask others questions as I tend to drive them crazy. My guess in my case, it was a combination of all 3 plus other factors that wasn't at all related to my deafness. I'd rather not disclose the other factors on a public forum though.
 
I think Norwegian Sign Language is Lotte's first language. I'm sure you've noticed that Cloggy's English isn't perfect as he's Dutch and his family moved to Norway a few years ago.

Ooops...I forgot that he doesnt live in the USA. Thanks for the correction. :)
 
Rick, I don't discount your experiance at all. Your experiance is 100% valid. Your family really lucked out. If I recall correctly, she thrived with minimal things. Like she didn't even need in school speech therapy, didn't even need resource room, really thrived in the mainstream etc. However, Cloggy's daughter is too young to really tell how sucessful that approach is going to be. If I recall correctly, Lotte is speaking, but still has very clinically significent language and speech delays. That's a red flag, actually. I had caught up language wise by kindergarten. I haven't had language therapy since preschool. It would be interesting to do a survey on what percentage of dhh kids end up not requiring spoken language therapy again.

From DD's response she compares the oral deaf kids to those with Asperger's and non-verbal symptoms, well my wife is a Spec Ed teacher and has had several Asperger kids and one non-verbal child and from her personal and professional experiences, it is not the best comparison. Also, I now know that DD's basis for using the term "many" comes from a reference from some book on methodologies that said some other research suggested that some, not "many", oral kids have significant social issues, it is not based upon personal experiences other than her own.
No, not nonverbal. I'm talking about Non-Verbal Learning Disorder. Its something completely different from being nonverbal. It's relatively new. Maybe a better comparison would be that its more common then not for special ed kids( all stripes from LD to "classic disabilites) to have significent social issues. My best friend is low vision and hoh. He had such significent social issues in elementary and middle school, that they sent him to Perkins School for the Blind.
Or maybe, more like the social issues that learning disabled kids go through.
But, it IS very common for kids with disabilites to have significent social issues.
And, no..........that quote from that book is not the only basis for my theis. I mean social skills are just a really really big perehnial.......they're always being talked about. God, even on the site hard of hearing kids.com, (a site that is VERY extremely pro- oral and mainstream) they say that its very common for hoh kids to have drug and alchohol abuse problems. A lot of the time, those are the direct result of feeling like they don't fit in with the mainstream. Oh, and also.......it is very common for oral deaf kids to return to the deaf schools or go to the deaf schools around middle school, b/c they had so much problems in the mainstream. Problems which can and do include social problems!
 
And yes, I do remember that Lotte used Signs. I think that rocks, and I think that if we had MORE parents like Cloggy, who were more child centered in their methodolgical approaches, there's be very few parents getting attacked by deaf activists.
However, I do disagree with his opinon that his daughter is now more "hearing then deaf" or that there's something magical about CIs that will somehow magically allow the users to be more pretty much hearing.
That's because you are comparing HA's with CI's......
You really shouldn't...

And not me, not Rick, not any other parent has ever said anything about magic....
Why would you put that in our mouths.???

It's not magic, it's hard work. For the parent, for the child. Just like raising a deaf child that cannot hear is hard work..
 
Rick, I don't discount your experiance at all. Your experiance is 100% valid. Your family really lucked out...............

Rick, you are sooo lucky.
All the hard work has nothing to do with it.

Just like us with Lotte, we just have to hope we are lucky...

And DD... about red flags....
Lotte started hearing when she was 2-1/2 years old... How old were you when you started hearing....
 
And DD... about red flags....
Lotte started hearing when she was 2-1/2 years old... How old were you when you started hearing....

No, Lotte is not hearing no she never will be. she only can hear through C.I.
You should stated *Lotte started to can hear with her C.I when she was 2 1/2 years old. :)
 
No, Lotte is not hearing no she never will be. she only can hear through C.I.
You should stated *Lotte started to can hear with her C.I when she was 2 1/2 years old. :)
And that was not obvious....???

BTW, why will she never be hearing if she can hear now????
Explain the difference please?

(I think THAT's part of the sceptisism..... some people cannot imagine being able to hear when you're deaf....
Well, snap out of it.... It is not impossible, it's a choice...)
 
And that was not obvious....???

BTW, why will she never be hearing if she can hear now????
Explain the difference please?

(I think THAT's part of the sceptisism..... some people cannot imagine being able to hear when you're deaf....
Well, snap out of it.... It is not impossible, it's a choice...)

It is interesting with the term "hearing"

It can be used as a verb like "hearing things"

or as an adjective like "My daughter is hearing as in not having deafness at all."

Maybe that is how the confusion started?
 
And Cloggy, jillo is right. Virtually EVERY dhh kid (with the exception of unilaterally dhh) has to have speech and or language therapy. INCLUDING so called oral sucesses! MANY if not most dhh mainstreamed kids have significent emotional-social issues b/c they don't 100% fit in. They fit in somewhat..........but they are still VERY different...............and not in just a "general childhood or general various and sundry "misfit" issues way.

:shock: my word, I didn't do what virtually every dhh kid does, and to put my hearing loss in perspective "I" could never hear the tv from upstairs (while aided) hmmm, come to think of it my oldest didn't do st either and she was aided at 9 I think, she did have a few minor pronunciation problems but not enough to get put in speech. Oh and a nephew how used an fm system during his elementy years never st to. Exactly how deaf are you talking about? Perhaps we weren't deaf enough. :eek3:
 
when Cloggy says "Lotte started hearing" he means she started hearing sounds. He didn't say "become"

geeee quit getting semantic over it!
 
It is interesting with the term "hearing"

It can be used as a verb like "hearing things"

or as an adjective like "My daughter is hearing as in not having deafness at all."

Maybe that is how the confusion started?
he never said "she became hearing person"
 
:roll: Whatever !!!

Boult who does you think you are! Was I talk direct to you? No!

So you should keep ya nose out Boult ...

So now whatever I ain't gonna waste my time here .

Yes Lotte is deaf alway will be she only can hear via C.I get it. :roll:
 
Cloggy was right - she STARTED hearing when she got the CI. With it she can hear. Quit splitting hairs pleas - you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.
 
he never said "she became hearing person"

Right..did I say that he said that? Only just maybe there is confusion with that term "hearing" and how it was used in the sentence.

Up to u all how u want to interpret what I meant but I never said that so pls ask before telling me to stop saying or doing this or that.

Thank u
 
Right..did I say that he said that? Only just maybe there is confusion with that term "hearing" and how it was used in the sentence.

Up to u all how u want to interpret what I meant but I never said that so pls ask before telling me to stop saying or doing this or that.

Thank u
I know you didn't say that. :)
 
It's Groundhog day again folks! <commence strains of the Pennysylvania Polka>
 
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