Some children who are born deaf recover from their deafness

And yes a moderate loss vs. a milder loss is amazing. I always think I can hear really well even without my aids, but then I put my aids on (and they aren't even digitals!) and its amazing.
Well I think its different from person to person. Like there are probaly people who have severe and profound losses who are too good hearing aid users. I mean have sales of HAs for severe and profound gone down?
Oh and the reason I'm emphasizing that CIers are functionally hoh, is b/c Cloggy doesn't seem to realize that. He seems to think that CIers are pretty much hearing. There's a huge difference between being hoh and being hearing. Ask any unilaterally dhh kid!
rick48, I just thought of another downside to oral only. Self-esteem. I mean how can you develop good healthy self esteem when you're constantly being corrected on your speech, pitch, volumne articulation etc?

DD,

I wouldn't bother explaining or pointing anything out to those two. Read the arguments that they had with us and I am sure u will see why I said that. Just don't want u wasting your time. Your have a lot of great points but some people aren't interested in acknowledging them. Just a suggestion, smile.
 
DD,

I wouldn't bother explaining or pointing anything out to those two. .........
I totally agree...
After all, what do we know... either we lie, or we have superchildren...

We're just pure lucky it turned out this way.. against all odds!! Like someone said.... We lucked out!!!

OK... going back to reality...:io:
 
I totally agree...
After all, what do we know... either we lie, or we have superchildren...

We're just pure lucky it turned out this way.. against all odds!! Like someone said.... We lucked out!!!

OK... going back to reality...:io:

Oh boy..did I say all that about u?

If u really r interested to know why I told DD that, let me know. What u implied is totally inaccurate about me. Maybe true about other AD members but not with me.
 
rick48, I just thought of another downside to oral only. Self-esteem. I mean how can you develop good healthy self esteem when you're constantly being corrected on your speech, pitch, volumne articulation etc?

DD,

That is a good point and one that a parent has to watch very carefully and know when to point it out and when to let it go.

The flip side to that argument is how do you also develop good healthy, self esteem if you lack the basic oral skills to effectively communicate with over 99% of the population?
Rick
 
DD,

I wouldn't bother explaining or pointing anything out to those two. Read the arguments that they had with us and I am sure u will see why I said that. Just don't want u wasting your time. Your have a lot of great points but some people aren't interested in acknowledging them. Just a suggestion, smile.

Please save your gratuitous attacks for someone else. I have stopped responding to you for a while as I do not care to have any further discussion with you.

If you have a problem with someone who wants people to have choices for deaf children, then learn to deal with it yourself.

And no, I have absolutely no interest in knowing why you you chose to attack Cloggy and myself. Save the drama for someone who cares and spare us all another long string of bickering posts!
 
Please save your gratuitous attacks for someone else. I have stopped responding to you for a while as I do not care to have any further discussion with you.

If you have a problem with someone who wants people to have choices for deaf children, then learn to deal with it yourself.

And no, I have absolutely no interest in knowing why you you chose to attack Cloggy and myself. Save the drama for someone who cares and spare us all another long string of bickering posts!

Ha...it is all my fault that for the long bickering post? As I recall, ALL of us who were involved are at fault. :roll:

At least I will acknowledge your success stories and I have stated how happy I am for your and Cloggy's successes and I have acklowledged my wrong doings. Just saving DD from getting into another argument about the cons of CIs or speech therapy and having everything repeat itself again. Nothing personal. If u want to take it as an atack, be my guest.
 
When I was pregnant with my DD I was worried about the possibility of her being deaf and me being HH only and knowing very little sign at the time. My OB said tere was only a very slim chance of it happening with my parents being hearing, her father and his family all being hearing.

I was going to prepare myself to raise a deaf child (not that it would have been a bad thing, I gladly would have learned sign for her sake to communicate, I would have not cared, I just wanted to be prepared to go through the same obstacles again as a parent that I went through as a child myself.

In the end my DD is hearing, and I still love her the same. When she was a year old I requested a second hearing test be done to make sure that she was not going to be behind in language devolopment (signed or spoken).

If my DD had been born deaf, it would have been no big deal - I would have learned sign a long time ago and gotten help from the deaf community much sooner than I have now. And yes I would have moved to Little Rock to have her go to the deaf school during the day. Deaf or hearing I would love my child all the same.

Today she is a very rambunctious talkitive 3 year old that thrives on life. Only her momma has trouble hearing.

That's a wonderful post, Dixie. Your daughter is growing up in a great environment, and I'm sure will develop into a wonderful and tolerant person!
 
Um DeafSkeptic and Sr17soars, you didn't read my post too carefully. I stated that yes, the CI is drasticly different from HA for folks who didn't get too much benifit from HA. I do understand.......it's probaly like the difference between an ITE and a BTE for someone who is audilogically hoh.
(and that difference is HUGE) But even with the difference in sound quality, CIers are still very functionally hoh, and the ones with REALLY good hearing (as we all know, the hearing that CI gives varies significently) are essentially equalivant to audilogically hoh HAers.

Yes, DD. It's not just a matter of dB but of frequency and distortion.
 
The flip side to that argument is how do you also develop good healthy, self esteem if you lack the basic oral skills to effectively communicate with over 99% of the population?
Yes, but you CAN develop good oral skills in tandem with being a fluent Signer! Only a very small percentage of Signing Deaf people are Sign monolingal! There's no evidence that oral only kids enunicate better or have better spoken language skills. The only reason why its thought of as "better" then TC, is b/c pro oralists consider ASL a crutch. Like from their perspective its better to have the spoken language skills of a second or third grader (as an adult) then it is to be monolingal Sign, but be able to express oneself at a Harvard lever in Sign.
I know that a lot of families are OK with Sign, but they just think that TC programs don't concentrate enough on speech. Maybe that's true. But I think that a lot of it is b/c many TC teachers don't really have good training in how to teach speech to dhh kids. Maybe if pro oral collabroated with TC prograsm, we could REALLY see dhh kids who are fluent in both speech and Sign. The thing is, that the results that oral schools get are simply b/c of the private school effect.
Also exclusively concentrating on speech doesn't mean that a kid will be able to be easily understood. Even a lot of kids with oral skills, don't have the easiest to understand voices!
 
Yes, but you CAN develop good oral skills in tandem with being a fluent Signer! Only a very small percentage of Signing Deaf people are Sign monolingal!

that's because most deaf children can get something with hearing aids. However quite a large minority don't get any benefit at all, in which case they would not be able to benefit from a TC program.

My nephew falls into that category and he only signs as his hearing loss is big. Most of his friends have smaller losses and so were able to both develop oral and sign skills. This has led to them making different choices to him.
 
that's because most deaf children can get something with hearing aids. However quite a large minority don't get any benefit at all, in which case they would not be able to benefit from a TC program.

My nephew falls into that category and he only signs as his hearing loss is big. Most of his friends have smaller losses and so were able to both develop oral and sign skills. This has led to them making different choices to him.[/QUOTE]

True that HOH people have a better chance of developing good oral skills than profoundly deaf people.
 
Yes, but you CAN develop good oral skills in tandem with being a fluent Signer! Only a very small percentage of Signing Deaf people are Sign monolingal! There's no evidence that oral only kids enunicate better or have better spoken language skills. The only reason why its thought of as "better" then TC, is b/c pro oralists consider ASL a crutch. Like from their perspective its better to have the spoken language skills of a second or third grader (as an adult) then it is to be monolingal Sign, but be able to express oneself at a Harvard lever in Sign.
I know that a lot of families are OK with Sign, but they just think that TC programs don't concentrate enough on speech. Maybe that's true. But I think that a lot of it is b/c many TC teachers don't really have good training in how to teach speech to dhh kids. Maybe if pro oral collabroated with TC prograsm, we could REALLY see dhh kids who are fluent in both speech and Sign. The thing is, that the results that oral schools get are simply b/c of the private school effect.
Also exclusively concentrating on speech doesn't mean that a kid will be able to be easily understood. Even a lot of kids with oral skills, don't have the easiest to understand voices!

And, just because they have developed expressive skills doesn't mean they have receptive skills that are equivilent.
 
Indeed not, Jillio. I've always had good oral skills but it didn't make it easier for me to understand THEM.
 
Indeed not, Jillio. I've always had good oral skills but it didn't make it easier for me to understand THEM.

Same problem here..That's why my mom thinks I should get a CI.
 
Exactly! A HA/CI does not remove "What?" as a dhh person's most used word.
And the presense of oral skills does not mean that a dhh kid can be easily understood by most people. It is just SO beyond frustrating to have to keep repeating yourself and the hearing person doesn't undy what you're saying.
Oral skills do not 100% equalize dhh kids. It gives them an additional skill, yes............but it doesn't equalize them. Exactly like the way a black family who is middle class, still have to deal with racism.
 
Exactly! A HA/CI does not remove "What?" as a dhh person's most used word.
And the presense of oral skills does not mean that a dhh kid can be easily understood by most people. It is just SO beyond frustrating to have to keep repeating yourself and the hearing person doesn't undy what you're saying.
Oral skills do not 100% equalize dhh kids. It gives them an additional skill, yes............but it doesn't equalize them. Exactly like the way a black family who is middle class, still have to deal with racism.

Yes, we all know that.

If Martin Luther King was to come back today and look at the achievements of the black middle class today I think he would be impressed compared to the situation in the early 1960s. It's differences and improved accessibility we are concerned about not cures or complete removal of the problem, which is an unrealistic expectation for such a short amount of time.
 
Yes, we all know that.

If Martin Luther King was to come back today and look at the achievements of the black middle class today I think he would be impressed compared to the situation in the early 1960s. It's differences and improved accessibility we are concerned about not cures or complete removal of the problem, which is an unrealistic expectation for such a short amount of time.
+1
 
DD,

Good post, good points.

"Yes, but you CAN develop good oral skills in tandem with being a fluent Signer!"

I agree and have never said otherwise. While we raised our daughter oral only for a variety of reasons, particular to her, I would not recommend and do not recommend it for other parents. You have to do what's best for your child.


"Only a very small percentage of Signing Deaf people are Sign monolingal! There's no evidence that oral only kids enunicate better or have better spoken language skills. The only reason why its thought of as "better" then TC, is b/c pro oralists consider ASL a crutch. Like from their perspective its better to have the spoken language skills of a second or third grader (as an adult) then it is to be monolingal Sign, but be able to express oneself at a Harvard lever in Sign."

Not sure about oral only but I have read research to the effect that kids with cis and oral therapy do develop better oral skills then those without cis and oral therapy. That is really not an issue anymore. I think that people like Ann Geers, Amy McConkin Robbins, Daniel Ling, Bruce Ganz, Diane Bracket, Jean Moog, Carol Zara, Susan Walzman, to name a few have written on this subject.

I have to tell you that my personal experience and that from discussions with many others, I have never heard anyone say exactly, or in sum and substance, that ASL is a "crutch". Also, no one ever approaches the language methodology issue saying "I would rather my child grow up and only have third grade oral language skills then be a Harvard educated signer". Most people who choose any methodology do so with the intention and expectation that it will be successful for their child. Having said that, I would also say that everything being equal, those who choose oral only would choose oral fluency over sign fluency and the reverse for those who choose sign only.


"I know that a lot of families are OK with Sign, but they just think that TC programs don't concentrate enough on speech. Maybe that's true."

That was true of the TC programs we investigated for our daughter, cannot say if it is true now.


"But I think that a lot of it is b/c many TC teachers don't really have good training in how to teach speech to dhh kids."

No, it was because they emphasized sign over speech, most of the children we observed were either unaided or told us they were made to wear their aids because we were coming to observe them. Also, when we went back to the schools unannounced, we observed that in the school yard and while waiting for the buses, none of the teachers or aides communicated orally with the kids, it was all in sign. When we observed the older kids, for if we chose their program, our daughter would one day be an "older kid" we observed kids who rarely communicated orally and who were not fluent orally. The programs were TC in name only.



Rick
 
Back
Top