Some children who are born deaf recover from their deafness

Cloggy said:
Really... so Chapter nine is just a waist of paper..

Harlan Lane is pushing for sign any chance he gets and giving misinformation regarding CI.. If anyone is biased, he is..

Oh, sorry ... proof....
A Journey into the DEAF-WORLD"
Page 395
"There is not a single published case, after a decade of experimentation with the multoichannel implant and more than a thousand implanted children, of a child aquiring oral language with an implant."
Sure, this is written in 1996... 11 years ago..... but wait... wasn't Rick's daughter using CI at that time.... succesfully.
Guess the sentense should be "I never saw a single published case..." since HL chooses what he looks at....
(Rick, where's that article about HL at a speach not wanting to hear the boy with CI ?)

Biased...
Ann Geers,
Amy McConkin Robbins,
Daniel Ling, Bruce Ganz,
Diane Bracket,
Jean Moog,
Carol Zara,
Susan Walzman

Not biased...
Harlan Lane

Right..
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That means without the same support services that have been used with HA for many, many years. And that still holds true--oral language has not been acquired through the use of the implant alone.
 
Cloggy said:
That's the one.....!!

Well.... that's a way to "never have met a successful child with CI....
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Misquote of Lane. Did not say "successful" Thee is a difference between success and acquiring oral language through the use of an implant alone without AVT and extensive remedial services.
 
jillio said:
That means without the same support services that have been used with HA for many, many years. And that still holds true--oral language has not been acquired through the use of the implant alone.
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Wrong... there are plenty of children that got their CI before the age of 2, where the parents never used sign, and that speak like hearing children. (which is not strange since they can hear..)

So, I don't know where you get that idea from...

Or am I missing some other means of obtaining oral language?? ...
 
jillio said:
Misquote of Lane. Did not say "successful" Thee is a difference between success and acquiring oral language through the use of an implant alone without AVT and extensive remedial services.
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I stand correncted... at least when you didn't just make up the "without AVT and extensive remedial services".....
I don't recall him saying that..

Still, him refusing to listen to a child with CI gives him the possibility to say that "he never experienced a child that had aquired language with CI..."
 
Excellent article, Rick 48.

I've no doubt that cochlear implants are very helpful with many children who got implanted young.

Sooner or later Harlan Lane is going to have to meet a child who's successful with a CI.
 
Cloggy said:
Wrong... there are plenty of children that got their CI before the age of 2, where the parents never used sign, and that speak like hearing children. (which is not strange since they can hear..)

So, I don't know where you get that idea from...

Or am I missing some other means of obtaining oral language?? ...
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Evidently you are missing something. I did not say sign, I said support services. AVT is a support service, and has been used with children using HA for years.
 
Cloggy said:
I stand correncted... at least when you didn't just make up the "without AVT and extensive remedial services".....
I don't recall him saying that..

Still, him refusing to listen to a child with CI gives him the possibility to say that "he never experienced a child that had aquired language with CI..."
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That refered to my previous post of acquiring language without sup[port services. When you take Lane's quotes out of context, it distorts intent in meaning.
 
deafskeptic said:
Excellent article, Rick 48.

I've no doubt that cochlear implants are very helpful with many children who got implanted young.

Sooner or later Harlan Lane is going to have to meet a child who's successful with a CI.
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Nah, as long as he continues to walk around with his head up his you know what, he never will!
Rick
 
now here's a question............what percentage of oral-only are so sucessful that they require very minimal support services? Like just being tracked "just in case' by a specialist, and maybe prefernetial seating?
rick, you still don't get it.............that's b/c you've bought into the party line that "there's freedom in listening and speaking".....Yes oral skills rock, but what if asl skills were promoted as "freedom from very expensive health technology?" I know that for example ling said that he thought that some kids definitly need sign, and he's not against it per se. but still..........he (and other oral experts) still see it as something that's "special needs", rather then as another tool that could significently help dhh kids.
far as i know oral only kids have the same rate of acheivement as kids who sign. there are still many oral only kids who are still very special ed, and underacheiving. just imagine, if asl advocates did the same thing that oral advocates did............and you know what? with health care costs being the way they are, its almost impossible for dhh kids to be totally independant. they are dependant on the technology and can't function without it (except on a limited basis with lipreading, which is not exactly reliable)
 
jillio said:
Evidently you are missing something. I did not say sign, I said support services. AVT is a support service, and has been used with children using HA for years.
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"Evidently.." in order to do AVT... you need to hear, so this would be aquiring speech with CI....
When you stated.."....And that still holds true--oral language has not been acquired through the use of the implant alone." I thought you meant that ASL is required....

After all, hearing children do not learn speach by hearing alone....!!!!! They also have support services... 24/7. The difference with children with CI and HA's is that the latter need to catch up lost time and learn to interpret sound...

So, again, I think you're wrong. My feeling is that children implanted at very early age will be able to develop their speech without the support-system you talk about, since they do not need to catch up....
But still, any support system is welcome!
 
Cloggy said:
"Evidently.." in order to do AVT... you need to hear, so this would be aquiring speech with CI....
When you stated.."....And that still holds true--oral language has not been acquired through the use of the implant alone." I thought you meant that ASL is required....

After all, hearing children do not learn speach by hearing alone....!!!!! They also have support services... 24/7. The difference with children with CI and HA's is that the latter need to catch up lost time and learn to interpret sound...

So, again, I think you're wrong. My feeling is that children implanted at very early age will be able to develop their speech without the support-system you talk about, since they do not need to catch up....
But still, any support system is welcome!
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Hearing children learn language by exposure, most of which is indirect and peripheral. Deaf/HH children learn sign in the same way, but learn speech and oral language through direct teaching and therapy. There is a huge difference in internalization and mastery as a native tongue.

And unless you plan to implant in utero, there willalways be delays, not to mention the dlays that are inherent in having to learn a language rather than acquire a language.
 
jillio said:
Hearing children learn language by exposure, most of which is indirect and peripheral. Deaf/HH children learn sign in the same way, but learn speech and oral language through direct teaching and therapy. There is a huge difference in internalization and mastery as a native tongue.

And unless you plan to implant in utero, there willalways be delays, not to mention the dlays that are inherent in having to learn a language rather than acquire a language.
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So true..I notice that I am sitll not as competent in the English language as hearing people due to not growing up acquiring English naturally.
 
jillio said:
Hearing children learn language by exposure, most of which is indirect and peripheral.
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Just like deaf children that can hear.

jillio said:
Deaf/HH children learn sign in the same way, but learn speech and oral language through direct teaching and therapy.
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Because they cannot hear.. (enough)

jillio said:
There is a huge difference in internalization and mastery as a native tongue.
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What does that mean ??
Let's ask Wiki...
... Internalization is the process of acceptance of a set of norms established by people or groups which are influencial to the individual. The process starts with learning what the norms are, and then the individual goes through a process of understanding why they are of value or why they make sense, until finally they accept the norm as their own viewpoint.
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And wiki again...
Mastery Learning is an instructional method that presumes all children can learn if they are provided with the appropriate learning conditions. Specifically, mastery learning is a method whereby students are not advanced to a subsequent learning objective until they demonstrate proficiency with the current one.
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Ah ha........ no ... still don't get that sentence......


jillio said:
And unless you plan to implant in utero, there willalways be delays, not to mention the dlays that are inherent in having to learn a language rather than acquire a language.
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When a deaf child can hear, it can aquire the language....
 
shel90 said:
So true..I notice that I am sitll not as competent in the English language as hearing people due to not growing up acquiring English naturally.
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I obviously have never met you face to face, but you write English a lot better than some hearing people I know!

I remember growing up it took me a long time to understand idioms. For example we had a saying in the UK that if you weren't going to talk to someone you "sent them to Coventry". Coventry is also a town in England so you can guess what I made of that. I thought people were really going to get sent to Coventry town.

It wasn't until I was in my late teens that things clicked and my language deepened in that sense. The UK has a very understated, subtle sense of humour that is based on tone of voice and I really love that.
 
Banjo said:
Some children who are born deaf recover from their deafness

This is something I've been concerned about for years due to the issues with hearing tests for babies not always being accurate. Now it turn out that there's a possibility that some babies are born deaf only to start hearing within a year or two.

So, how do one truly determine if a baby is deaf or not?
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It is so true, it is possibility! My brother was deaf when he was born. He became hearing when he was 6 years old. I was so jealous of him and I wish I can be like him.
 
Sugarpuff said:
It is so true, it is possibility! My brother was deaf when he was born. He became hearing when he was 6 years old. I was so jealous of him and I wish I can be like him.
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Really? At 6 years old? If u don't mind me asking..how did that happen?

I assume that u r deaf and wish u were hearing right? Do u have CIs?

I can't imagine becoming hearing it would be too weird for me but that's just me. When I was a kid, I dreamed of waking up one day having normal hearing but now that I have accepted my deafness and adapted to it, I don't really care if I remain deaf for the rest of my life. Would my life be better as a hearing person? Maybe or maybe not but important I am happy so it doesn't matter anymore.
 
shel90 said:
Really? At 6 years old? If u don't mind me asking..how did that happen?

I assume that u r deaf and wish u were hearing right? Do u have CIs?

I can't imagine becoming hearing it would be too weird for me but that's just me. When I was a kid, I dreamed of waking up one day having normal hearing but now that I have accepted my deafness and adapted to it, I don't really care if I remain deaf for the rest of my life. Would my life be better as a hearing person? Maybe or maybe not but important I am happy so it doesn't matter anymore.
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I wish I knew how did my brother became hearing. It was a miracle.
You are correct that I am deaf. I don't use any of devices. Don't ask me why!
I think it was the fluids that got stuck in my brother's ears since he born, and it cleared up.
 
Sugarpuff said:
I wish I knew how did my brother became hearing. It was a miracle.
You are correct that I am deaf. I don't use any of devices. Don't ask me why!
I think it was the fluids that got stuck in my brother's ears since he born, and it cleared up.
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That's a long time for the problem to have not been picked up. Fluids in the ear - he had some kind of glue ear problem? If this is the case then it's a very common childhood situation among hearing people.

I understand that all of the children referred to in the original post had auditory neuropathy and had all regained their hearing by 12 months or so of age.
 
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