So, will the deaf culture be there?

[KristinaB]

But that is NOT how therapy today works. The therapy my daughter (and all the deaf kids I know, at all the schools she attended) is about LANGUAGE. Today the therapist was working on higher level vocabulary and prepositions. We played games hiding objects and describing if they were "between" or "next to" or "beneath" other objects. Then we played an "I spy" game with vocabulary that was a little harder. We looked for the "sofa" (instead of couch) and the "jacket" (instead of coat). This isn't about whether or not she makes a perfect "sss" sound, it is about learning LANGUAGE.

That sound oddly like the classes for the "English as a 2nd language" that they offer to the immigrants here in town.

 

[faire_jour]

That sound oddly like the classes for the "English as a 2nd language" that they offer to the immigrants here in town.

My daughter is learning English as her second language. ASL was her first.

 

[KristinaB]

My daughter is learning English as her second language. ASL was her first.

I get that. I am not stupid or ignorant. I have heard you say that ad nauseaum for the last 3 years.

 

[GrendelQ]

But that is NOT how therapy today works. The therapy my daughter (and all the deaf kids I know, at all the schools she attended) is about LANGUAGE. Today the therapist was working on higher level vocabulary and prepositions. We played games hiding objects and describing if they were "between" or "next to" or "beneath" other objects. Then we played an "I spy" game with vocabulary that was a little harder. We looked for the "sofa" (instead of couch) and the "jacket" (instead of coat). This isn't about whether or not she makes a perfect "sss" sound, it is about learning LANGUAGE.

That's been our experience as well. I'm suspecting it is very different from what people experienced many years ago.

 

[Daredevel7]

That was my kind of therapy too. It was more of a development therapy. The real speech therapy came when I was like older than 6-8 years old. Then it was more like learning how to say words as my vocabulary expanded.

 

[GrendelQ]

I get that. I am not stupid or ignorant. I have heard you say that ad nauseaum for the last 3 years.

I read that as FJ clarifying in answer to you saying it was odd that she was learning as if it were English as a 2nd lang, not treating you as stupid or ignorant.

 

[AlleyCat]

But that is NOT how therapy today works. The therapy my daughter (and all the deaf kids I know, at all the schools she attended) is about LANGUAGE. Today the therapist was working on higher level vocabulary and prepositions. We played games hiding objects and describing if they were "between" or "next to" or "beneath" other objects. Then we played an "I spy" game with vocabulary that was a little harder. We looked for the "sofa" (instead of couch) and the "jacket" (instead of coat). This isn't about whether or not she makes a perfect "sss" sound, it is about learning LANGUAGE.

How does she speak her vocabulary then? She has to first learn how to use her voice. You don't go from not speaking at all to being able to say "therapist" in the next instant. There is a transition that happens in between there.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

But that is NOT how therapy today works. The therapy my daughter (and all the deaf kids I know, at all the schools she attended) is about LANGUAGE. Today the therapist was working on higher level vocabulary and prepositions. We played games hiding objects and describing if they were "between" or "next to" or "beneath" other objects. Then we played an "I spy" game with vocabulary that was a little harder. We looked for the "sofa" (instead of couch) and the "jacket" (instead of coat). This isn't about whether or not she makes a perfect "sss" sound, it is about learning LANGUAGE.

How does she speak her vocabulary then? She has to first learn how to use her voice. You don't go from not speaking at all to being able to say "therapist" in the next instant. There is a transition that happens in between there.

you start with simple words "ball, this is a ball" or "weeee, we go down the slide" or "choo choo, the train says choo choo" and then slowly build up.

 

[deafgal001]

reminds me of my son during his toddler years. That's how I talked to him.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

reminds me of my son during his toddler years. That's how I talked to him.

yeah, that's kinda the idea. At the very beginning you just start with sounds and songs and then teach more advanced language as they progress.

(oh and for the record, three years ago, my daughter was 100% asl. She hasn't been implanted for even 2 years )

 

[Daredevel7]

My speech therapy videos were taped. I was 3-5 years old in the tapes. So I know exactly what's going on in the therapy. It relies more on understanding in the initial period because she didn't correct my speech until I was older. She only corrected me when I answer her questions wrong.

 

[deafgal001]

My speech therapy videos were taped. I was 3-5 years old in the tapes. So I know exactly what's going on in the therapy. It relies more on understanding in the initial period because she didn't correct my speech until I was older. She only corrected me when I answer her questions wrong.

it is probably unneccessary to correct their speech when hearing toddlers can't even speak clearly (normal for development). It is when they are older is when they should be pronouncing words correctly like their peers.

 

[deafdyke]

deafgal, I have no problem with ASL only families. What I DO have a problem with, is oral advocates using them to argue that that is what the majority of Deaf people want dhh kids to end up
and right on jillo and everyone! Faire joure, although it's not articulation therapy, (which is a very small part of a S&L therapist's caseload) it's still language therapy.....and many if not most of us had spoken language therapy too. (and the way you're descibing it too...not just "repeat this word after me" 1920's Clarke School style spoken language therapy. It wasn't just learning to make the "th" sound or the mechanics of speech. Matter of fact, I did have spoken language therapy as a preschooler, but caught up really fast...
It's still speech training. Deaf kids have to be trained how to use spoken language. It's therapy.

 

[faire_jour]

deafgal, I have no problem with ASL only families. What I DO have a problem with, is oral advocates using them to argue that that is what the majority of Deaf people want dhh kids to end up
and right on jillo and everyone! Faire joure, although it's not articulation therapy, (which is a very small part of a S&L therapist's caseload) it's still language therapy.....and many if not most of us had spoken language therapy too. (and the way you're descibing it too...not just "repeat this word after me" 1920's Clarke School style spoken language therapy. It wasn't just learning to make the "th" sound or the mechanics of speech. Matter of fact, I did have spoken language therapy as a preschooler, but caught up really fast...
It's still speech training. Deaf kids have to be trained how to use spoken language. It's therapy.

Well, other people seem to think otherwise.

Also, kids aren't in therapy all day. They are exposed to regular classroom material and language.

 

[jillio]

it is probably unneccessary to correct their speech when hearing toddlers can't even speak clearly (normal for development). It is when they are older is when they should be pronouncing words correctly like their peers.

Exactly. Correction is done on a developmentally appropriate schedule.

 

[jillio]

That's interesting, I notice that sometimes the Deaf seem to equate writing skills with language skills.

A much more accurate way to assess language skills than is the ability to articulate.

 

[jillio]

Writing skills go hand-in-hand with having a grasp of language skills. Speech therapy is about learning how to use your voice. I worked with a speech therapist all my school years to learn how to form letters, especially those that I cannot distinguish (technically, I cannot hear any speech, but I can tell the difference between L and M, whereas I cannot tell the difference between S and X, for example.) So I learned how to form letters, and correctly, as well as how to pronounce long and short vowels, how to say whole words, and whatnot. That is about getting the sound out -- hearing babies eventually say "mama" but I had to be taught how to get that sound out since I could not hear that. It was not about learning the vocabulary that comprises the English language.

Bingo. And many is the child that I have seen from an oral only background that can articulate well, but cannot produce a sample of written language that indicates that they have a grasp of English.

 

[jillio]

If you claim that spoken English is not a language in and of itself, you are, by that logic, also stating that written English is not a language in and of itself.

Both writing and speaking are modes of a language. The language is English, period.

The language is English, writing is the mode used to express it. The language is English. Speaking is the mode used to express it. Spoken English does not use a different linquistic base than does written English. I don't know how much simpler to put it.

 

[jillio]

No, my child is in a school that use ENGLISH to teach all subjects. She is learning and using ENGLISH. It uses spoken English for the majority of communication but also teaches reading and writing. She is not in therapy all day, she is in school.

She is receiving AVT during school hours, by your own admission. Reading and writing are academics and belong in a curriculum. AVT is not.

 

[jillio]

EXACTLY. Speech and language are different. It just so happens that you use speech to convey spoken language. Someone can have fabulous spoken language, but poor speech, or perfect speech and terrible spoken language.

More often, in the case of the oral deaf child, they have good speech, but poor use of the language. Speech cannot be used to assess liguistic achievements.