So, will the deaf culture be there?

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Sure you do.

I got a false sense of autonomy, and the illusion worsen as the more I try to be self-sufficient.

 

[jillio]

I got a false sense of autonomy, and the illusion worsen as the more I try to be self-sufficient.

So true, souggy. You have achieved a level of self honesty most never even aspire to!

 

[rockdrummer]

It's not really a myth... more like an illusion. The lack of free will is more obvious in some societies than others.

I suppose that depends on how you define and scope freewill. Obviously a society can't just let people do whatever they choose. There has to be some order.

 

[jillio]

I suppose that depends on how you define and scope freewill. Obviously a society can't just let people do whatever they choose. There has to be some order.

Then there is no free will. There is the ability to choose according to the options that are offered. And those options are offered based on someone else's decision.

 

[jillio]

It's not really a myth... more like an illusion. The lack of free will is more obvious in some societies than others.

Correct. Your choice of wording was much better than mine.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Then there is no free will. There is the ability to choose according to the options that are offered. And those options are offered based on someone else's decision.

And the state of affair the world's food supply is in...

 

[jillio]

And the state of affair the world's food supply is in...

No kidding!

 

[rockdrummer]

Then there is no free will. There is the ability to choose according to the options that are offered. And those options are offered based on someone else's decision.

Depends on how you define and scope it.

 

[jillio]

Depends on how you define and scope it.

I define free as having no cost and no restriction on application.

We have choice in the U.S. But even that is limited to another's dictate.

 

[Bebonang]

Assmiliation by choice, and assimilation by force are two very different things.

What do you mean by Assimilation by choice? Does that mean that it is not the freewill for us to have our own culture like Native Americans in all of the North America as many whites want us to change our ways like English and French languages, to get rid of our native culture, cut our hairs short, and dress like the white people's clothes. That is why I detest the word "assimilation" by forcing us to do away with what the white people want so that they can get rid of us and have the white people take over any old time they want.

It feel exactly what the deaf people have to put up with just to get rid of our defects if the flaws is not our own fault and what about other disability people like Down Syndrome, Cerebral Palsy, blindness, and few other defects whether birth defect or late defect. We just want to be left alone without all the fuss of getting us to hear and speak in the normal oral way. They keep thinking that hearing aids and now CIs will make us hear clearly which is a BS.
Hearing people never know what is like to be deaf or hard of hearing. This is suppose to be our experiences of why we had to suffer under them. It just made me mad and I am sick of tire of hearing (reading) their excuses that CI or other cure will work perfectly. Our world is not perfect anyway, so what the big deal? :roll:

Normal people should accept us the way we are, not to change us exactly just like Native Americans. White people should not change us (Native Americans). If they don't want to get along with us just because we are different, then they should have gone back to wherever they came from many years ago. They had/have no right to control us as we were here first for many centuries.

 

[shel90]

I suppose that depends on how you define and scope freewill. Obviously a society can't just let people do whatever they choose. There has to be some order.

I was forced into the hearing world full time without any exposure to the deaf world I didnt have a choice but to try my best to assimilate myself among my hearing peers and that backfired in a dead serious way.

That is what Jillio was referring to. Assimilation by force.

 

[AlleyCat]

I was forced into the hearing world full time without any exposure to the deaf world I didnt have a choice but to try my best to assimilate myself among my hearing peers and that backfired in a dead serious way.

That is what Jillio was referring to. Assimilation by force.

That is what I got from that too.

 

[deafdyke]

Faire joure, I really do think that a lot of your frustrations and fears that Miss Kat may not develop FLUENT oral abilty have manifested in your current attitudes. She will continue to progress with speech. She may have mild spoken language delays but more on a par with HOH style language delays, rather then severe deaf spoken language delays.
I also think you don't understand that it's not nessarily the bi-bi philospohy which inhibited Kat's access to spoken language. TLC is a bi bi school, and Grendel hasn't complained about poor access to speech therapy.
Most Deaf schools, including those which use ASL have speech therapists, and most dhh students get a very hefty dose of speech therapy. The problem is that your bi bi school is small and didn't have a lot of access to resources. A more established program may have had a more experianced speech therapist. I know off the top of my head that Montana School for the Deaf and Blind has an oral program, as does Iowa School for the Deaf. Quite a few other Deaf schools offer oral programs!!!!
Oh and the discussion about whether oral deaf people are happy or not being oral.
The thing that you don't understand is that, many oral only kids were raised to think that they were "better educated" or had more "oppertunties" then those poor little ASL users.
Some orally raised adults never let go of those attitudes. With the hyperfocus on speech, speech speech and functioning "normally" no wonder a lot of oral only adults feel that way.
There are some oral adults who had exposure to both ASL and speech, and they chose speech, and are perfectly happy that way. But most of the time oral only wasn't a choice. They did not have the choice between ASL and speech.
Just like many of us here!

 

[Daredevel7]

I'm happy being oral. Now the question is.... does PFH (and others) think I'm one of those delusional people who rationalizes why it's better to grow up oral than Deaf?

 

[faire_jour]

Faire joure, I really do think that a lot of your frustrations and fears that Miss Kat may not develop FLUENT oral abilty have manifested in your current attitudes. She will continue to progress with speech. She may have mild spoken language delays but more on a par with HOH style language delays, rather then severe deaf spoken language delays.
I also think you don't understand that it's not nessarily the bi-bi philospohy which inhibited Kat's access to spoken language. TLC is a bi bi school, and Grendel hasn't complained about poor access to speech therapy.
Most Deaf schools, including those which use ASL have speech therapists, and most dhh students get a very hefty dose of speech therapy. The problem is that your bi bi school is small and didn't have a lot of access to resources. A more established program may have had a more experianced speech therapist. I know off the top of my head that Montana School for the Deaf and Blind has an oral program, as does Iowa School for the Deaf. Quite a few other Deaf schools offer oral programs!!!!
Oh and the discussion about whether oral deaf people are happy or not being oral.
The thing that you don't understand is that, many oral only kids were raised to think that they were "better educated" or had more "oppertunties" then those poor little ASL users.
Some orally raised adults never let go of those attitudes. With the hyperfocus on speech, speech speech and functioning "normally" no wonder a lot of oral only adults feel that way.
There are some oral adults who had exposure to both ASL and speech, and they chose speech, and are perfectly happy that way. But most of the time oral only wasn't a choice. They did not have the choice between ASL and speech.
Just like many of us here!

TLC is not a traditional bi-bi school. I would use the term "Dual language" rather than bi-bi since they provide immersive auditory language.

Also, our Deaf school is large for the population of our state. They supported a TC, bi-bi and oral program.

 

[GrendelQ]

TLC is not a traditional bi-bi school. I would use the term "Dual language" rather than bi-bi since they provide immersive auditory language.

Just to be clear, TLC is very much bi-bi, was the first deaf school in MA to depart from the Oral tradition and become a pioneer in the Bi-Bi arena back in 1970. My daughter's auditory access program is new and the auditory aspects are contained, limited to the pilot group of early education kids enrolled. It doesn't impact the philosophy of the school or the quality and nature of deaf education provided to non-CI/HA kids (when my daughter is in gym, in ASL storytime, etc. -- roughly half her day -- her class is integrated with non-auditory kids and all communication is conducted in ASL).

 

[Hohtopics]

I'm happy being oral. Now the question is.... does PFH (and others) think I'm one of those delusional people who rationalizes why it's better to grow up oral than Deaf?

I think some of it just stems from their being concerned about preserving their culture, not that there's anything wrong with it...

 

[rockdrummer]

I'm happy being oral. Now the question is.... does PFH (and others) think I'm one of those delusional people who rationalizes why it's better to grow up oral than Deaf?

Or do they think you are one of the inbetweeners that they speeak of who are lost in both worlds.

 

[rockdrummer]

I think some of it just stems from their being concerned about preserving their culture, not that there's anything wrong with it...

There is nothing wrong with preservation of culture as long as it is not by providing mis-information to do so.

 

[faire_jour]

Just to be clear, TLC is very much bi-bi, was the first deaf school in MA to depart from the Oral tradition and become a pioneer in the Bi-Bi arena back in 1970. My daughter's auditory access program is new and the auditory aspects are contained, limited to the pilot group of early education kids enrolled. It doesn't impact the philosophy of the school or the quality and nature of deaf education provided to non-CI/HA kids (when my daughter is in gym, in ASL storytime, etc. -- roughly half her day -- her class is integrated with non-auditory kids and all communication is conducted in ASL).

Interesting. I thought the entire school had converted. What will happen as though kids become school age?