So, will the deaf culture be there?

[faire_jour]

Out of curiousity, how would you like us to SHOW YOU? I am part of a very large deaf community, and I see this for myself. How do I show you this? If nothing else, I can share one concrete example. I know of one oral deaf who has serious self-esteem and social issues. I know -- I used to be married to him.

Every time I make a claim about AV or CI's people demand that I show proof and I show research that shows what I based my opinion on. I would like DD to do the same.

 

[rockdrummer]

To me if some claims are not backed up with reliable sources then they are hearsay. That doesn't mean people are lying about their experiences, it only means (to me) that they are not representitive of the majority.

 

[posts from hell]

Every time I make a claim about AV or CI's people demand that I show proof and I show research that shows what I based my opinion on. I would like DD to do the same.

To me if some claims are not backed up with reliable sources then they are hearsay. That doesn't mean people are lying about their experiences, it only means (to me) that they are not representitive of the majority.

Well, we live it, we see it. We know it.

If I knew where the proof in the pudding was, I'd show you guys instantly.

 

[AlleyCat]

Well, we live it, we see it. We know it.

If I knew where the proof in the pudding was, I'd show you guys instantly.

It's what we all say. And it goes in one ear and out the other. Apparently living it just doesn't cut it.

 

[rockdrummer]

Well, we live it, we see it. We know it.

If I knew where the proof in the pudding was, I'd show you guys instantly.

I get that but it doesn't mean your experineces are the same for everyone as is proven over and over again by other deaf individuals on this very forum. In fairness I do listen to everyone and take their experiences into consideration.

 

[rockdrummer]

It's what we all say. And it goes in one ear and out the other. Apparently living it just doesn't cut it.

Not true at least for me. The problem is that when one deaf individual says they have a particular experience and others say that didnt' happen to them. How do you reconcile that? The way I reconcile that is just like many things in life. Not everyone has the same experiences and the experiences we do have depend on many factors.

 

[AlleyCat]

I get that but it doesn't mean your experineces are the same for everyone as is proven over and over again by other deaf individuals on this very forum.

You're totally right. Many of us have said repeatedly that not one size fits all. Everything is different for everyone. Yet some parents want to lump us together in a bunch of statistics and insist that because statistics say so, that's what it is.

 

[posts from hell]

I get that but it doesn't mean your experineces are the same for everyone as is proven over and over again by other deaf individuals on this very forum. In fairness I do listen to everyone and take their experiences into consideration.

There was a thread... that i made... and pretty much 80% oral-deaf agreed, and it was what we are saying. BTW:

There has been a research done:

At RIT:

Page 4

Three main themes appear throughout students' descriptions
of their social life during their first year: (1)
feelings of alienation and separation from the deaf student
community, (2) the importance of close relationships
with other "oral" students experiencing the same
difficulties, and (3) the struggle for acceptance from the
hearing student community.

page 7

Second-, Third-, and Fourth-Year Experiences
As students described their social experiences during
second, third, and subsequent years on campus, many
changes emerged. Although individual experiences
varied, the most significant change students described
was the "breakup" of the social networks that had been
established during orientation and the first year. The
bases for many of these early relationships had been
ease of communication (oral), shared backgrounds
(mainstreamed), alienation from the larger deaf community,
and lack of acceptance by the hearing community.

http://jdsde.oxfordjournals.org/content/2/4/252.full.pdf

Need more?

 

[posts from hell]

Not true at least for me. The problem is that when one deaf individual says they have a particular experience and others say that didnt' happen to them. How do you reconcile that? The way I reconcile that is just like many things in life. Not everyone has the same experiences and the experiences we do have depend on many factors.

That's why I made "people who are oral" thread, and you may check out that other thread. at least 20 people said the same thing. That is what AlleyCat and I are referring to.

Plus the countless people I've seen in real life.

 

[AlleyCat]

Not true at least for me. The problem is that when one deaf individual says they have a particular experience and others say that didnt' happen to them. How do you reconcile that? The way I reconcile that is just like many things in life. Not everyone has the same experiences and the experiences we do have depend on many factors.

Actually, you are one that I don't consider what is read goes in one in ear and out the other.

I don't think you can reconcile what you are asking -- and you answered that yourself with your last statement.

So, why can't other parents accept that we have had the experiences we've had without arguing them with us? Demanding proof, and so forth?

 

[rockdrummer]

There was a thread... that i made... and pretty much 80% oral-deaf agreed, and it was what we are saying. BTW:

There has been a research done:

At RIT:

Page 4


page 7

http://jdsde.oxfordjournals.org/content/2/4/252.full.pdf

Need more?

I consider the oxford journals a reliable objective source. The source you posted is a qualitative study of the social aspects of mainstreaming from the perspective of deaf college students titled Balancing Between Deaf and Hearing Worlds: Reflections of Mainstreamed College Students on Relationships and Social Interaction

From the source you provided.

Data were collected through open-endedinterviews with deaf students who had little or no previous experience with or exposure to deaf culture or language before their arrival at a mainstream college environment. Feelings
of isolation, loneliness, and resentment were most intense
during orientation and first year, when alienation from
the deaf student community appeared to be caused by lack of
sign language skills, unfamiliarity with norms and values of
deaf culture, and perceived hostility from deaf peers. Simultaneous
experiences of separation from hearing peers appeared
to be caused by physical barriers inherent in the classroom,
residence hall, and cafeteria environments, as well as
by discrimination from hearing peers, who tended to stereotype
deaf students. Findings suggest that those involved in
the administration and delivery of postsecondary programs
for the deaf should investigate the experiences of students
who arrive on campus without knowledge of sign language or
familiarity with deaf culture and evaluate currently existing
programs and services designed to meet these students'
needs.

 

[posts from hell]

okay and your point is?

 

[rockdrummer]

okay and your point is?

I bolded it for you. This is a group of deaf students that had no exposure to deaf culture or ASL. Are we to compare their experiences and apply them to everyone in the deaf community. Do you think they would have had the same experiences if they were exposed to deaf culture and ASL? Do you think they would have felt isolated even from their deaf peers as mentioned in the study?

 

[posts from hell]

That's what I was getting at, oral deafies. They're lost in between. Very damaging on the person if they are lost.

That's what 20 other posters along as I are saying. Although it is not my personal experience, it's what I see.

The best way out of this is give them ASL, literally.

 

[deafgal001]

I'm one of those stuck between world deaf. As you can see, I can be alittle weird about things too. My older sister was too... she is happier since she learned ASL.

On AIM, she keep complaining about our mother and how she thinks mom would hide our deafness and all that.

I find that those who had both are more satisfied with life. Even if they don't use ASL anymore.

 

[posts from hell]

I'm one of those stuck between world deaf. As you can see, I can be alittle weird about things too. My older sister was too... she is happier since she learned ASL.

On AIM, she keep complaining about our mother and how she thinks mom would hide our deafness and all that.

I find that those who had both are more satisfied with life. Even if they don't use ASL anymore.

exactly

 

[Frisky Feline]

I consider the oxford journals a reliable objective source. The source you posted is a qualitative study of the social aspects of mainstreaming from the perspective of deaf college students titled Balancing Between Deaf and Hearing Worlds: Reflections of Mainstreamed College Students on Relationships and Social Interaction

From the source you provided.

Were this possible that this research was done by hearing person who talked to those oral deafies? maybe they have not talk to the ASL user about it. who knows.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Wirelessly posted

Every time I make a claim about AV or CI's people demand that I show proof and I show research that shows what I based my opinion on. I would like DD to do the same.

To me if some claims are not backed up with reliable sources then they are hearsay. That doesn't mean people are lying about their experiences, it only means (to me) that they are not representitive of the majority.

Well, we live it, we see it. We know it.

If I knew where the proof in the pudding was, I'd show you guys instantly.

You know...

"Proof's in the pudding' was in reference to how puddings were once made with ingredients people held a disdain for, yet judge the final product without tasting it. :p

 

[shel90]

Actually, you are one that I don't consider what is read goes in one in ear and out the other.

I don't think you can reconcile what you are asking -- and you answered that yourself with your last statement.

So, why can't other parents accept that we have had the experiences we've had without arguing them with us? Demanding proof, and so forth?

No kidding!

 

[shel90]

Were this possible that this research was done by hearing person who talked to those oral deafies? maybe they have not talk to the ASL user about it. who knows.

Most deaf people who have used ASL whom I have met never had these issues of feeling lonely, isolated, or alienated. My brother has no concept of what it was like for me. Even you, Frisky, admitted that when we were in NYC. I think that's great so why continue to do that to many deaf people all for the sake of oralism?