Should a pedophile be granted parental visits?

yizuman said:
LOL you're SO hilarious, dismissing a data because it's "OLD". You really expect a data to change that much in 10 years? Prolly by a small margin in 10 years, but that's it.

Umm..it's twenty years and the data changes in a year's time. That is why it needs to be collected annually. Much has changed in that time, including treatment modality and efficacy.

As for curing pedophiles, you're just pissing on the data because it doesn't INCLUDE a data of curing pedophiles?

Nope. Pissing on the data because it means nothing. You didn't even provide any data.

How about you showing me a data that pedophiles is being cured 100% with absolutely no chance of re-offending ever again!!!!!



I can't show you data like that for pedophiles, for sexual offenders of any kind, for people bith bi-polar disorder, for people with schizophrenia, for people who commit armed robbery, for people with personality disorders...and on and on and on and on. There is no 100% guarantee for anything in this life. You are asking for an impossibility. I can't even guarantee that your next post will be as ignorant and bigoted as the rest of your posts. However, I can predict, with a reasonable degree of certainty, that it will be.
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And I predict in your next post where you are ask a question or ask for data you will deflect...deflect..and deflect some more. You fight but you don't fight fair.
Reba, Yiz, and I have ask you plenty of times to back your statements up or answer our question....and we are still waiting.
 
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yizuman said:
So you love, hug, support & even kiss child molesters?

Maybe you should try entering into the Priesthood.

Yiz
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Jiro said:
Elizabeth Smart - "I have forgiven him"

Elizabeth Smart says she's forgiven abductor - KPLC 7 News, Lake Charles, Louisiana
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Yiz,

Have you thought that the act of forgiving is more for person doing the forgiving? It's usually not for the person that needs forgiving.

Think about it, who is one that is hurt most by not forgiving?

The one holding the grudge or the one that did the deed and is not even aware that person he/she is hurting?
 
I think Elizabeth Smart forgave him because she literally thought he was delusional and schizophrenic.. she probably understood that he had a mental illness. I feel terrible that she had to go through that.

And as for a list of statistics, it's misleading as usual. It can be overwhelming but you're likely to misinterpret the actual results. examples:

"More than 1/2 of all convicted sex offenders are sent back to prison within a year. Within 2 years, 77.9% are back."

What sex offense was that? Rape? Pedophilia? Incest? What?!?! Not all sex offenses involve children.

"1 in 5 violent offenders serving time in a state prison reported having victimized a child."

As in raping them or was it beating and abusing them?

It goes on and on. It shows how misleading statistics can be.
 
netrox said:
I think Elizabeth Smart forgave him because she literally thought he was delusional and schizophrenic.. she probably understood that he had a mental illness. I feel terrible that she had to go through that.

And as for a list of statistics, it's misleading as usual. It can be overwhelming but you're likely to misinterpret the actual results. examples:

"More than 1/2 of all convicted sex offenders are sent back to prison within a year. Within 2 years, 77.9% are back."

What sex offense was that? Rape? Pedophilia? Incest? What?!?! Not all sex offenses involve children.

"1 in 5 violent offenders serving time in a state prison reported having victimized a child."



As in raping them or was it beating and abusing them?

It goes on and on. It shows how misleading statistics can be.
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You are so very right in the fact you can read into the data whatever is implied.
You also make our point for us, thanks for that.
If 1/2 are sent back within in a year and 78% within in two years, this shows that they are real re-offenders. Granted, it does not say for what offense there were sent back and all offenses in a court of law are different. But, to the child, does it matter if they are raped or get the abuse done to them. I do not think any amount of data, misleading or not, can excuse these offenders, given the chance there is a high possibility to re-offend.
 
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I'm surprised that no one mentioned "why not ask the child who is visiting the parent?".

Generally, Id say hell, no. It isn't like s/he will NEVER get a chance to interact with their child. 1) The pedophile may not be in jail forever and can still visit his/her child when they get out. 2) The child eventually will be old enough to make his/her decision to see his/her parent. This is simply a side effect of being caught doing a crime. Or perhaps it IS part of the punishment.

However, I'd allow for exceptions for the extreme cases. I don't like to assume that ALL cases are bad. Such as the 18 year old being caught with a 17 year old. But I would want supervision AT ALL TIMES.

One thing for sure, if the child IS the victim him/herself, then that's just freakin' insane. WTF?
 
While I agree with your post, I hope you are thinking of those kids who would be forced to spend time with their rapist/abuser. There have been cases where after years of punishment and "treatment" they have been allow by the court to have contact with the child. Since this child is still a minor, the court can order visitations between the rapist/abuser and the child, granted, supervision and/or restrictions may be also ordered. Still, my point, the child is force to do something against her/his wish.
 
Secretblend said:
Yiz,

Have you thought that the act of forgiving is more for person doing the forgiving? It's usually not for the person that needs forgiving.

Think about it, who is one that is hurt most by not forgiving?

The one holding the grudge or the one that did the deed and is not even aware that person he/she is hurting?
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Forgiveness is commanded by God in Scripture, because He knows if we don't forgive, we'll never heal.

But it still doesn't excuse the crime. No crime of any kind should ever be excusable in any way, shape & form.

So it all depends on case by case, attitude and all.

Yiz
 
yizuman said:
Forgiveness is commanded by God in Scripture, because He knows if we don't forgive, we'll never heal.

But it still doesn't excuse the crime. No crime of any kind should ever be excusable in any way, shape & form.

So it all depends on case by case, attitude and all.

Yiz
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forgiveness FROM God also depends on the sinner going to the sinned-against and asking that person for forgiveness.
 
rolling7 said:
And I predict in your next post where you are ask a question or ask for data you will deflect...deflect..and deflect some more. You fight but you don't fight fair.
Reba, Yiz, and I have ask you plenty of times to back your statements up or answer our question....and we are still waiting.
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You wouldn't understand the data if I posted it.:cool2:
 
rolling7 said:
You are so very right in the fact you can read into the data whatever is implied.
You also make our point for us, thanks for that.
If 1/2 are sent back within in a year and 78% within in two years, this shows that they are real re-offenders. Granted, it does not say for what offense there were sent back and all offenses in a court of law are different. But, to the child, does it matter if they are raped or get the abuse done to them. I do not think any amount of data, misleading or not, can excuse these offenders, given the chance there is a high possibility to re-offend.
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This post is exactly why I know that you would not understand the data if I posted it. You didn't understand netrox's post on the subject.

Misleading data is just that. Misleading data. It means that it does not apply and means nothing. Yet you continue to try to make it mean what you want it to, even when it has been pointed out that is not what it indicates at all.
 
netrox said:
I think Elizabeth Smart forgave him because she literally thought he was delusional and schizophrenic.. she probably understood that he had a mental illness. I feel terrible that she had to go through that.

And as for a list of statistics, it's misleading as usual. It can be overwhelming but you're likely to misinterpret the actual results. examples:

"More than 1/2 of all convicted sex offenders are sent back to prison within a year. Within 2 years, 77.9% are back."

What sex offense was that? Rape? Pedophilia? Incest? What?!?! Not all sex offenses involve children.

"1 in 5 violent offenders serving time in a state prison reported having victimized a child."

As in raping them or was it beating and abusing them?

It goes on and on. It shows how misleading statistics can be.
Click to expand...

Agreed netrox. On both points.

And those 77.9% may not be sent back on any kind of a sexual offense. It may be an offense totally unrelated to the original charge. Most often it is a parole violation, not a new charge of sexual molestation or gross sexual imposition on a child, or anything related to child victimization.

This is exactly what happens when people look at statistics and don't have any idea what they are looking at. They develop mistaken ideas and concerns not because of fact, but because of what they don't know.
 
yizuman said:
Forgiveness is commanded by God in Scripture, because He knows if we don't forgive, we'll never heal.

But it still doesn't excuse the crime. No crime of any kind should ever be excusable in any way, shape & form.

So it all depends on case by case, attitude and all.

Yiz
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so you won't ever forgive?
 
rolling7 said:
While I agree with your post, I hope you are thinking of those kids who would be forced to spend time with their rapist/abuser. There have been cases where after years of punishment and "treatment" they have been allow by the court to have contact with the child. Since this child is still a minor, the court can order visitations between the rapist/abuser and the child, granted, supervision and/or restrictions may be also ordered. Still, my point, the child is force to do something against her/his wish.
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This shows a sad lack of knowledge regarding how the system works.:roll:
 
rolling7 said:
forgiveness FROM God also depends on the sinner going to the sinned-against and asking that person for forgiveness.
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This hasn't got anything to do with religion. This is about legal and psychological ramifications.
 
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