Shooting at Ft Hood; 7 dead, 20+wounded

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Maria said:
I am not sayin' "Muslims" that shouldn't be prohibited from joinin' our military. I am sayin' "Muslims" based on their religion because, they believe in "honor the killings". It's why I said Muslims shouldn't join the military. I find this difficult for me to understand why this man use the words "Allah Akbar" before shootin'. You know that I am for this country and I support troops, regardless their races or whatever their backgrounds are. Those troops are supposed to be for "country", not "killin'" troops. Yes, I can understand that bein' a military/troop is a very stressful job and it can stress their health and mind. I respect troops for their doin' job very well. That's my appreciation.

My question is : Is there any history that an American troop shot other troops just like this man ? I mean, by followin' his religion just like this man ? I am not sure if, I remember any .... :-/
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In bold, many muslims who commit to murder or bombing so they always say Allah at all time, that's very annoying and anyone who is uncomfortable with US military shouldn't join.
 
Foxrac said:
In bold, many muslims who commit to murder or bombing so they always say Allah at all time, that's very annoying and anyone who is uncomfortable with US military shouldn't join.
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He joined the military in 1997. When 9/11 happened, he wanted out of the military and had expressed that. People knew he didn't want to be in the US military for well over eight years now.
 
Jiro said:
yes. A few posters are pinning Hasan's action on Islamic religion... and even went far to say all Muslims should be banned from armed force. I just posted an article saying that the authorities has not established a motive yet. While Hasan was unconscious, we all have seen this many times. That's why we acted quickly to contain the racial war from breaking out.


Yes you did make a careful distinction. You POINTED out a tiny fact which is usually left ignored by many. That's why "Minutemen" image has been tarnished as racist vigilantes.

That is why people must calm down and not jump to conclusion. Let's not start anti-Muslim flaming or "Allah Akbar" or Al-Queda or whatsoever. As you said - Hasan is now awake and speaking.

Let's wait and see for facts to unravel.
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Agreed. From what I can tell, this doesn't appear to be a terrorist thing but of course, I could be wrong. I have no idea what his motive is even though I can make guesses. I prefer facts to speculation and conspiracies which is why I'm not posting my guesses here. For all I know, I could be off the mark.
 
souggy said:
It wasn't long ago soldiers used to yell "for God and Glory" before going over the top in the trenches... Regardless "Allah akbar" is ued in almost every situation from expressing happiness, to relieving stress, feeling blessed to praising or approving of someone... it;s pretty much a catch-all phrase for every significant event. Similar to how we use "thank God" even under fire.

Care to provide a source ? :)

And for the last sentence, you can find anyone with a similar mindset regardless of creed. Look at school shootings... how can you forget Columbine?
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I don't forget Columbine. Columbine wasn't about Ft. Hood here. We pay for the troops, not Columbine killers. "Columbine" killers were NOT our soliders. IF, anythin' should happen to our country, it is the troops who will take care of. That's my mainly point. Their job is for "peace and safety".
 
Look up "God and Glory" in Google with the quotations. :) You will see it in the title of an book about Nelson, but ignore those-- although it is interesting to note that it is associated with a famous military officer.

It's also in many of the film reels for WW1 and WW2. It's a British thing though, but the phrase also entered Canadian and American lexicons.

It fell out of favour after WW1 because trench-warfare wasn't the norms of military combat since it wasn't about who was holding the most land, but who was the most mobile.

On a related note:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_cry Also note that they're not the only one that defer to a higher authority (be it Napoleon... Stalin... or just their religion's main figure.)

Either way, the whole Columbine reference was meant to point out that Hasan and the people involved in massacres and school shootings exhibited the same mentality REGARDLESS of their backgrounds-- and the scary thing is that, almost all of them are predictable. So a blanket policy or statement can't be used. Might as well ban all humans from the services if we're so worried about a group, and start training dogs or monkeys instead.
 
Foxrac said:
In bold, many muslims who commit to murder or bombing so they always say Allah at all time, that's very annoying and anyone who is uncomfortable with US military shouldn't join.
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It's what made 9/11 history on our America soil as it was never before.
 
souggy said:
Look up "God and Glory" in Google with the quotations. :) You will see it in the title of an book about Nelson, but ignore those-- although it is interesting to note that it is associated with a famous military officer.

It's also in many of the film reels for WW1 and WW2. It's a British thing though, but the phrase also entered Canadian and American lexicons.

It fell out of favour after WW1 because trench-warfare wasn't the norms of military combat since it wasn't about who was holding the most land, but who was the most mobile.

On a related note:
Battle cry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Also note that they're not the only one that defer to a higher authority (be it Napoleon... Stalin... or just their religion's main figure.)

Either way, the whole Columbine reference was meant to point out that Hasan and the people involved in massacres and school shootings exhibited the same mentality REGARDLESS of their backgrounds-- and the scary thing is that, almost all of them are predictable. So a blanket policy or statement can't be used. Might as well ban all humans from the services if we're so worried about a group, and start training dogs or monkeys instead.
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:ty: I will read. Speakin' of trainin' dogs/or monkeys -- you may want to create a thread discussin' about this ? :)
 
Maria said:
It's what made 9/11 history on our America soil as it was never before.
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Yup, we haven't seen any terrorist attack for 8 years and thanks to Bush admin to adopt the anti-terrorist law, except for PATRIOT Act.
 
The memorial service is about to begin. I'm watching it on TV. The display of the empty helmets, guns, and boots is very touching. :cry:
 
Maria said:
I am not sayin' "Muslims" that shouldn't be prohibited from joinin' our military. I am sayin' "Muslims" based on their religion because, they believe in "honor the killings". It's why I said Muslims shouldn't join the military.
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I don't think all Muslims support "honor killings." I don't think just putting down "Islam" on the religion line of their paperwork is enough to keep someone out of the military.

I find this difficult for me to understand why this man use the words "Allah Akbar" before shootin'.
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I don't think anyone fully understands yet. We have to wait for a full investigation.

...Those troops are supposed to be for "country", not "killin'" troops.
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Yes, that goes without saying. We don't expect our troops to kill each other.

Yes, I can understand that bein' a military/troop is a very stressful job and it can stress their health and mind. I respect troops for their doin' job very well. That's my appreciation.
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We have to pray for them, and support them in any way we can.

My question is : Is there any history that an American troop shot other troops just like this man ? I mean, by followin' his religion just like this man ? I am not sure if, I remember any .... :-/
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There have been other American military members killing military members but not such a large number at once, especially on an American base.

Fragging happened during the Vietnam war, in Vietnam.

The following killings didn't happen in the USA but it was an American soldier who killed fellow soldiers:

Army Soldier Is Convicted In Attack on Fellow Troops

By Manuel Roig-Franzia
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, April 22, 2005; Page A03

An Army sergeant who wanted to stop U.S. troops from killing his fellow Muslims was convicted by a military jury yesterday of murdering two colleagues and wounding 14 other soldiers in a chaotic grenade and rifle attack two days after the United States invaded Iraq.

Hasan Akbar, who turned 34 yesterday, faces the death penalty for the killings at Camp Pennsylvania in Kuwait, which prosecutors said were carefully planned to achieve "maximum carnage." The jury, which deliberated for 2 1/2 hours at Fort Bragg in Fayetteville, N.C., before delivering its guilty verdicts on murder and attempted-murder charges, will reconvene Monday for a death-penalty hearing.

Both the prosecution and the defense said that Akbar -- who became a Muslim as an adult -- wanted to stop the soldiers of the 101st Airborne Division from killing Muslims. A defense lawyer argued that Akbar was mentally ill.

The accusation that Akbar was responsible for the attack struck an emotional chord in a military culture built around camaraderie and loyalty -- the "band of brothers" creed. Akbar is the first U.S. service member prosecuted on charges of murdering fellow troops in wartime since the Vietnam War era.

The attack jarred Camp Pennsylvania not long after 1 a.m. March 23, 2003, as members of the 101st Airborne Division, known as the "Screaming Eagles," were preparing to move from central Kuwait to Iraq. Grenades were rolled into several tents, setting off loud explosions, and shots were fired.

In the commotion, medics discovered that many of the wounded were members of the 1st Brigade's senior command staff. A search turned up an American soldier, who was taken into custody and later identified as Akbar.

Capt. Robert McGovern, the military prosecutor in the case, said Akbar acted with a "cool mind" in executing the attack with stolen grenades, according to the Associated Press.

Defense attorney Maj. Dan Brookhart tried to undermine that accusation by saying that Akbar is mentally ill and was confused on the night of the attacks, not suffering from "the blues" as an Army psychiatrist testified. "It doesn't make sense," Brookhart said, according to the Associated Press. "This guy doesn't have the blues. He's mentally ill."

The initial shock of Akbar's arrest was followed by vexing questions about his possible motives. Military officials disclosed that he had been repeatedly disciplined for insubordination and was being held back from advancing with his unit -- the 326th Engineering Battalion. A spokesman for the 101st said he had an "attitude problem...."
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Read the rest at:

Army Soldier Is Convicted In Attack on Fellow Troops (washingtonpost.com)
 
Fort Hood Suspect Warned of Muslim Threat Within Military - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com
The Army psychiatrist suspected of killing 13 people at Fort Hood reportedly warned senior Army physicians in 2007 that the military should allow Muslim soldiers to be released as conscientious objectors instead of fighting in wars to avoid "adverse events."

According to The Washington Post, Major Nidal Malik Hasan was supposed to make a presentation on a medical topic during his senior year as a psychiatric resident at Walter Reed Medical Center.

Instead, Hasan lectured his supervisors and two dozen mental health staff members on Islam, homicide bombings and threats the military could encounter from Muslims conflicted about fighting against other Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan.

A source who attended the presentation told the paper, "It was really strange. The senior doctors looked really upset."

The Powerpoint, entitled, "The Koranic World View As It Relates to Muslims in the U.S. Military," consisted of 50 slides, according to a copy obtained by the Post.

"It's getting harder and harder for Muslims in the service to morally justify being in a military that seems constantly engaged against fellow Muslims," Hasan said in the presentation.

Under a slide titled "Comments," he wrote: "If Muslim groups can convince Muslims that they are fighting for God against injustices of the 'infidels'; ie: enemies of Islam, then Muslims can become a potent adversary ie: suicide bombing, etc." [sic]

The last bullet point on that page reads simply: "We love death more then [sic] you love life!"

On the final slide, labeled "Recommendation," Hasan wrote: "Department of Defense should allow Muslims [sic] Soldiers the option of being released as 'Conscientious objectors' to increase troop morale and decrease adverse events."
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Hasan probably had the above thoughts but went with the lure of a free education and then wanted out.
 
Anyone that claims to be a pacifist and is not willing to go to war regardless of who that war is against, has no business joining the military...free education or not.
 
well think about it - Hasan is in impossible situation..... wars against Iraq and Afghanistan. he took it as "War on Muslims." Let's take me for a pretend example -

I join Army because I love this country and I want to serve my public duty. Now.... several years later..... USA went to war with Korea. Things got pretty ugly and confusing. Many stories about innocent Koreans being killed, detained and aggressively interrogated. This would obviously affect me a great deal since I am Korean. and now.... I'm being ordered to go to Korea.

That would be a great deal of conflict and mental turmoil for me because I have to participate in war that kills Koreans.... my own kind. Would I just go ballistic and start killing like what Hasan did? absolutely not. I would go thru proper procedure and chain of command to request for change or something.

Army Command should have a decency to reassign me since this is obviously a conflict of interest for me. In Hasan's case - it is puzzling to why Army HQ hasn't done anything after his repeated requests and complaints.
 
Today's memorial service at Fort Hood was very dignified and sad. I'm now watching as people pass by the portraits of each of the deceased. Each soldier, airman, marine, and sailor, officer and enlisted, stops and renders a salute to each of the 13. Sigh....
 
Eve said:
Anyone that claims to be a pacifist and is not willing to go to war regardless of who that war is against, has no business joining the military...free education or not.
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kinda remind me of First Lt. Ehren Watada
 
Reba said:
Today's memorial service at Fort Hood was very dignified and sad. I'm now watching as people pass by the portraits of each of the deceased. Each soldier, airman, marine, and sailor, officer and enlisted, stops and renders a salute to each of the 13. Sigh....
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gotta wait till I get home...
 
I can't help but think of the poor man who lost both his wife and baby. :(
 
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