SEE is a language... It's English...

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shel90 said:
BUT views like the ones about ASL are audist in nature. It is a fact.
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Bingo. If people don't want to be thought of as an audist, then they need to stop spouting audist beliefs. If they want to spout audist beliefs, and are truly dedicated to their choices, then they should wear the label proudly.
 
faire_jour said:
Wirelessly posted



"i didn't say you were a nazi, i said that the things you say and do are the same as a nazi....totally different! So there is no need to take it personally or get offended."

yeah, right.
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Get over yourself, FJ. I know that you would love to be the most important thing on all of our minds, but that is not the way it is. Your opinions just don't carry that much weight.
 
Mountain Man said:
You may not be an audist, but placing such a great emphasis on your son learning English at the cost of learning a language that comes naturally to him is a sentiment firmly rooted in the audist mindset. Note that this doesn't necessarily make you an audist, but it does mean that at least on this point you have adopted an audist point of view.
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Thank you. Some don't appear to be able to discern the difference between commentary on the nature of a belief and a personal label.
 
Mountain Man said:
I may be a little late to the thread, but I think I can answer this question as I have one deaf child and the rest of the household is hearing (I have three children seven and under; my deaf son recently turned 5):

As a family, we are committed to learning ASL, so if it's information that is important for all the children to receive then we sign it so that they all have equal access. Sometimes we will go voice-off for a day outing -- to the zoo, for example -- for the practice, to include my deaf son as much as possible, and because it's fun (you should see the looks we get; I've noticed that hearing people suddenly stop talking when they think they're around Deaf people). My wife and I sign as much as possible when communicating with each other, though it is often sim-com because our signing skills are still developing. If there is information being conveyed in the room and nobody is signing at the moment, we make a judgment call and convey the information to my deaf son if we think it's something he should know or might want to know. For instance, my wife and I were discussing one of us running out to pick up a video. My hearing son overheard us and commented, so I took a moment to explain the conversation to my deaf son so that when one of us suddenly walked out the door, he wouldn't be confused and wonder what was going on. What's really precious is when we catch our kids in a room by themselves all signing away to each other.

In short, choosing to have a bilingual household is a pretty major lifestyle decision and takes commitment, discipline, and the support of the entire family.
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Excellent post. And you are quite right: choosing a bilingual home environment is a major lifestyle change. Those who have never attempted such do not understand the committment and the work that is involved...nor do they receive the many payoffs that come as a result.
 
faire_jour said:
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unfortunatly, when you sim-com you are providing lingustically confusing information that does as much harm as good.

Also, doesn't your child have the right to ALL information, not just what directly concerns him? Hearing kids have that access, the ability to "overhear" conversations that have nothing to do with them. In fact, 90% of language is learned that way, and you aren't providing that for your child. He is missing out on crucial learning opportunities every single time you don't sign. If he doesn't have the chance to watch natural, adult level, language, how will he ever become fluent? He needs to be able to watch fluent users use language that isn't directed at him. He needs to see you discuss bills and wallpaper and the mechanic. He shouldn't just rely on you "bringing him up to speed" in a condensed version because he missed out when you chose to leave him out.
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You really are a piece of work.

Also, when you quote me, you need to cite.:laugh2:
 
ldnanna said:
imho, some information is not shared with all the kids due to age level, subject matter or content. Age and maturity level is considered when presenting various subjects to children. You can present most anything appropriate in a conversation tailored for them.
M.m. Stated that the family asl was developing. The entire family should be applauded. As their asl develops the sim com will be left behind and develop into graceful asl. Bravo.
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+1.
 
faire_jour said:
Wirelessly posted



do you actually disagree with any of the points i made, or are you just mad it was me that brought it up? Every single thing i said was true, so rather than hide behind an eye roll, do something about it.
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It is only true in that twisted world you call reality.:cool2:
 
faire_jour said:
Wirelessly posted



i assume that this is supposed to be about me. The idea that i am "talking in her ear" is just stupid. I don't know tis person. What kind of paranoida do you live with???
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I don't live with any type of paranoia. No "d" in the spelling.:cool2:

You assume I am talking about you, but then call me
paranoid? :laugh2: You really need to stop assuming that I am ever talking about you unless I call you by your screen name. You are simply not that important to me that I would constantly post anything related to you. And your opinions carry no weight whatsoever, nor am I intimidated by your overblown ego in the least. If I am talking about you, I certainly won't bother to disquise it. You will be the first to know.
 
alleycat said:
we asked you to provide documentation on this. This was months ago. A single report would have done. There was outrage by us on this board that people actually were threatened, that police should have been called, and you couldn't back any of that up. you've refused thus far.

And now you want pfh to provide documentation for his statements?



What goes around comes around, lady. Don't talk the talk if you can't walk the walk.
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+1
 
faire_jour said:
Wirelessly posted



i told you that i was more than willing to put you in contact with parents that have had these things happen, no one cared.
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Yeah, riiiight. Nope, not good enough. We have seen the distortions that come from you. How about a news report regarding these activities you claim are happening.
 
posts from hell said:
because you said oral schools, not parents.
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Yeppers. News worthy events to be sure. All this name calling and harrasment was supposedly going on outside of oral schools. I know the news would have picked up on that one, and the police would have been called.

Those stories are nothing more than exaggerated fiction, just like everything else FJ claims.
 
I personally do not think SEE is a fully defined language, but it is a communication method.

I think SEE is useful. In fact, someone (Shel I think) talked about spoken ASL. To be quite honest, spoken (or written) ASL actually helps me understand the syntax of ASL. I can't always practice with someone in person (a proficient ASL user, most deaf people I know here do half assed ASL and PSE, due to the poor proficiency of teachers of the deaf), but all I have to do is read that thread "ASL ONLY" and gain so much knowledge within 10 minutes.
 
shel90 said:
English was my first language but I was cut off from my world regarding communication. ASL allowed me to finally have some true access to communication.

So, teaching a deaf child English as a first language does not guarantee full access to communication.
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Yep. I've always had excellent English but it was hard to communicate with everyone around me. I didn't need SEE to help me master English. It's useful for classroom for demo purposes but it's too damn awkward to use for everyday conservation and I say this as someone who loves the English language. I refuse to sign in SEE.
 
Mountain Man said:
I may be a little late to the thread, but I think I can answer this question as I have one deaf child and the rest of the household is hearing (I have three children seven and under; my deaf son recently turned 5):

As a family, we are committed to learning ASL, so if it's information that is important for all the children to receive then we sign it so that they all have equal access. Sometimes we will go voice-off for a day outing -- to the zoo, for example -- for the practice, to include my deaf son as much as possible, and because it's fun (you should see the looks we get; I've noticed that hearing people suddenly stop talking when they think they're around Deaf people). My wife and I sign as much as possible when communicating with each other, though it is often sim-com because our signing skills are still developing. If there is information being conveyed in the room and nobody is signing at the moment, we make a judgment call and convey the information to my deaf son if we think it's something he should know or might want to know. For instance, my wife and I were discussing one of us running out to pick up a video. My hearing son overheard us and commented, so I took a moment to explain the conversation to my deaf son so that when one of us suddenly walked out the door, he wouldn't be confused and wonder what was going on. What's really precious is when we catch our kids in a room by themselves all signing away to each other.

In short, choosing to have a bilingual household is a pretty major lifestyle decision and takes commitment, discipline, and the support of the entire family.
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Your family sounds fantasic! Everyone learn ASL (parents and brothers and sisters, not just parents). Good luck to get your ASL level as you want.
 
jillio said:
Absolutely. Eastern TN, middle TN, and Western TN all have different variations is spoken dialect. Funny thing is, the sign varies just as the spoken language does.
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Yeah.

When I lived in Richmond VA, you could tell if someone lived in the Northside section of Richmond by the accent. Ditto for Charottle NC only you can tell if they live in the south part and there were a lot of ex New Yorkers as well.

My little sister, a native Richmonder, says yeh but my great aunts who grew up in the Blue Ridge section of VA would say yee-ah instead. I say it the same way as my great aunts cuz I've spent considerable time in the Blue Ridge section.

As for sign variations, the sign mean is signed with curling your fingers around your chin and then twisting it to the other side of the chin. I don't see that outside the Western part of VA. Elsewhere, I see the more standard sign for mean.

In Charlotte, the sign for truck is similar to grass in other parts of the USA.
 
deafskeptic said:
Yeah.

When I lived in Richmond VA, you could tell if someone lived in the Northside section of Richmond by the accent. Ditto for Charottle NC only you can tell if they live in the south part and there were a lot of ex New Yorkers as well.

My little sister, a native Richmonder, says yeh but my great aunts who grew up in the Blue Ridge section of VA would say yee-ah instead. I say it the same way as my great aunts cuz I've spent considerable time in the Blue Ridge section.

As for sign variations, the sign mean is signed with curling your fingers around your chin and then twisting it to the other side of the chin. I don't see that outside the Western part of VA. Elsewhere, I see the more standard sign for mean.

In Charlotte, the sign for truck is similar to grass in other parts of the USA.
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It is lind of interesting to try and find out what is responsible for the differences.
 
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