SEE is a language... It's English...

[CSign]

rebeccaj, Beclak, and Shel90.

Not to sound arrogant, but I realize from the number of times that members of this board have contacted me on a private basis to ask for help with issues regarding their deafness or educational advocacy for their deaf children that I am appreciated and the vast majority understand my motivation and the premise from which I operate. That is why, despite the vocal and vicious few that have seemed to develop some sort of a personal grudge against me have not been successful in keeping me quiet on this board. Nor will they ever be successful.

"They have issues they need to deal with. If they don't want my input, fine. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other. But I will not sit idly by while they come in here and verbally abuse the other members of this board. I will not allow them to force their audist perspective down our proverbial throats. It is far past time for that behavior to be put to rest. The Deaf/deaf have suffered enough from that attitude. I will always be here to speak out against it, just as I will always be here to advocate for the most beneficial educational environment for the kids." Jillio

I most certainly am not an audist, nor am I shoving anything down anyones "proverbial throat." I have written what my experience has been with a particular mode of communication that you clearly don't agree with. You don't have to agree with it Jillio.
I also never, at any point on this thread or in my life said anything negative about ASL. In fact, I made a point in multiple threads to note the fact that I value ASL. It really is because I didn't do things the way you think it should be done. I was able to give my son complete access to language. I wouldn't have been able to provide him with a fluent model of ASL in his early years. God forbid that I made a choice, that was in fact, effective in my child acquisition of English! I value both languages equally for the purpose they both serve. It rocks you to your core that I am here saying that it can work.
Please, quote anything that I've said that implies ASL is wring or bad for a Childs native language... I'll have to wait forever because it doesn't exist.
Jillio, you are in fact a bully. Deep down you know it too. Your hiding behind the computer and the others that agree with you. There is no reason to be do nasty, condescending and rude.
I believe that you are an advocate for Deaf rights, and that you've been a good resource for people. Well Jillio, I can tell you that I have been the same for families in my neck of the woods. I want what's best for DHH children, and I never professed my way to be the best. I said it can work.
Perhaps in 2011 you can work on being more understanding and open to different approaches.
I hope that the rest of you can read this thread and my posts for what it really said, not what you expected it to say.

FJ- I'm sorry that some people havent been very kind to you. I hope that you will stay on this forum because you are here with a purpose, and that is your daughter. I'm sure sweet darling Jillio doesn't speak for everyone on this forum although she thinks she does.

*

 

[jillio]

rebeccaj, Beclak, and Shel90.

Not to sound arrogant, but I realize from the number of times that members of this board have contacted me on a private basis to ask for help with issues regarding their deafness or educational advocacy for their deaf children that I am appreciated and the vast majority understand my motivation and the premise from which I operate. That is why, despite the vocal and vicious few that have seemed to develop some sort of a personal grudge against me have not been successful in keeping me quiet on this board. Nor will they ever be successful.

"They have issues they need to deal with. If they don't want my input, fine. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other. But I will not sit idly by while they come in here and verbally abuse the other members of this board. I will not allow them to force their audist perspective down our proverbial throats. It is far past time for that behavior to be put to rest. The Deaf/deaf have suffered enough from that attitude. I will always be here to speak out against it, just as I will always be here to advocate for the most beneficial educational environment for the kids." Jillio

I most certainly am not an audist, nor am I shoving anything down anyones "proverbial throat." I have written what my experience has been with a particular mode of communication that you clearly don't agree with. You don't have to agree with it Jillio.
I also never, at any point on this thread or in my life said anything negative about ASL. In fact, I made a point in multiple threads to note the fact that I value ASL. It really is because I didn't do things the way you think it should be done. I was able to give my son complete access to language. I wouldn't have been able to provide him with a fluent model of ASL in his early years. God forbid that I made a choice, that was in fact, effective in my child acquisition of English! I value both languages equally for the purpose they both serve. It rocks you to your core that I am here saying that it can work.
Please, quote anything that I've said that implies ASL is wring or bad for a Childs native language... I'll have to wait forever because it doesn't exist.
Jillio, you are in fact a bully. Deep down you know it too. Your hiding behind the computer and the others that agree with you. There is no reason to be do nasty, condescending and rude.
I believe that you are an advocate for Deaf rights, and that you've been a good resource for people. Well Jillio, I can tell you that I have been the same for families in my neck of the woods. I want what's best for DHH children, and I never professed my way to be the best. I said it can work.
Perhaps in 2011 you can work on being more understanding and open to different approaches.
I hope that the rest of you can read this thread and my posts for what it really said, not what you expected it to say.

FJ- I'm sorry that some people havent been very kind to you. I hope that you will stay on this forum because you are here with a purpose, and that is your daughter. I'm sure sweet darling Jillio doesn't speak for everyone on this forum although she thinks she does.

*

Same old, same old.

BTW: I don't hide behind anything. I am out in the world, having contact face to face with deaf/Deaf people on a daily basis. And I don't change my approach one bit.

I don't speak for anyone. I speak with the Deaf here. They are perfectly capable of speaking for themselves. Seems like you would have understood that after reading their posts.

Why do hearing parents get so upset that the Deaf have accepted me?

So, have you started reading any of the materials that were referenced for you? I look forward to returning to the discussion of SEE as a communication method.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

grendel, you are right. I just get so sick of the same old "attack those who make a different choice". I let it go for page after page, but when they started saying tht she was arrogant and thought sh was better than everyone else (with nothing to back it up, at all, except that stupid smilie she always uses) i got fed up.

please continue the discussion about SEE and i will only add to the topic when i can (which i doubt i can add much)

 

[CSign]

Thank you Grendel... If even just one person gained some understanding in what I've said, then it was not done in vain.

In terms of progress Jillio, you will not concur that I've made progress until I say that my Childs first language is ASL. Well, it wasn't. He will, however become fluent in it in the future. He already has experience with it, just as I do. Just because I put the sugar in before the baking powder doesn't mean my cake will be any less tasty.

 

[Banjo]

Somebody here is using the "woe is me" card. I've been seeing a lot of that here at AllDeaf. Anyway, enough of that.

Back to the subject... SEE itself looks good on the paper, but it isn't well-executed in reality. Perhaps it may be used a a temporary solution, but not permanent.

 

[jillio]

Wirelessly posted

grendel, you are right. I just get so sick of the same old "attack those who make a different choice". I let it go for page after page, but when they started saying tht she was arrogant and thought sh was better than everyone else (with nothing to back it up, at all, except that stupid smilie she always uses) i got fed up.

please continue the discussion about SEE and i will only add to the topic when i can (which i doubt i can add much)

Then stop putting yourself in a position where you already know what reaction you will get. You are not a victim. You are a full participant in the treatment you get around here.

 

[Banjo]

I don't speak for anyone. I speak with the Deaf here. They are perfectly capable of speaking for themselves. Seems like you would have understood that after reading their posts.

You are right. You do not speak for me nor anyone here. I speak for myself. Both of us don't always agree on everything, however we do agree to disagree. That's what makes debating so much easier knowing you are able to agree to disagree with me instead of getting defensive.

 

[jillio]

Somebody here is using the "woe is me" card. I've been seeing a lot of that here at AllDeaf. Anyway, enough of that.

Back to the subject... SEE itself looks good on the paper, but it isn't well-executed in reality. Perhaps it may be used a a temporary solution, but not permanent.

Can we make this a no whining zone?

Agreed on the subject. Theory and practical, real life use are two very different things when it comes to all of the MCE's. Research began showing that around 1979.

 

[Banjo]

Wirelessly posted

grendel, you are right. I just get so sick of the same old "attack those who make a different choice". I let it go for page after page, but when they started saying tht she was arrogant and thought sh was better than everyone else (with nothing to back it up, at all, except that stupid smilie she always uses) i got fed up.)

Great people talk about ideas.
Average people talk about things.
Small people talk about other people.

 

[GrendelQ]

Back to the subject... SEE itself looks good on the paper, but it isn't well-executed in reality. Perhaps it may be used a a temporary solution, but not permanent.

What's interesting here is that the poster is presenting a case where we can take a look at how it's being executed in real-life and in combination with ASL and HAs -- might be something positive to take away from this.

 

[jillio]

Thank you Grendel... If even just one person gained some understanding in what I've said, then it was not done in vain.

In terms of progress Jillio, you will not concur that I've made progress until I say that my Childs first language is ASL. Well, it wasn't. He will, however become fluent in it in the future. He already has experience with it, just as I do. Just because I put the sugar in before the baking powder doesn't mean my cake will be any less tasty.

Wow! Where did you buy that crystal ball you are using to predict what I will and will not do? You might want to return it. It would appear to be malfunctioning.

Seems the OP is taking the thread off topic in order to throw around insults. I guess that means the rest of us can do the same.

 

[CSign]

There never was a discussion about SEE as a communication method Jillio. You shut it down, as I am no doubt using PSE. If I don't know how to use SEE then please tell me why the School he went to for DHH children that used TC and SEE had me teach their class? Why have I taught the class in my county? I can assure you it's not because I dont know what I'm doing.
In terms of my stupid smily face well, I use that so people understand I'm coming from a good place and I am in no way attacking other methods. You miss out on a lot of the undertone when you're reading things in text, so that's why I do it.

 

[Banjo]

What's interesting here is that the poster is presenting a case where we can take a look at how it's being executed in real-life and in combination with ASL and HAs -- might be something positive to take away from this.

I grew up with SEE in both home and educational settings.

I have met many, many and I mean many deaf adults who went through the same program and are still unable to read above 4th grade.

It boils down to one thing... language development. It must be done within the first five years of a child's life.

 

[CSign]

Where exactly did I throw around insults?

 

[CSign]

And my child had access to a complete language and that is why he is reading and writing the English language. NOT because English is better than ASL, but because I was able to provide him with a complete language model in the first 5 years of his life.

 

[jillio]

There never was a discussion about SEE as a communication method Jillio. You shut it down, as I am no doubt using PSE. If I don't know how to use SEE then please tell me why the School he went to for DHH children that used TC and SEE had me teach their class? Why have I taught the class in my county? I can assure you it's not because I dont know what I'm doing.
In terms of my stupid smily face well, I use that so people understand I'm coming from a good place and I am in no way attacking other methods. You miss out on a lot of the undertone when you're reading things in text, so that's why I do it.

I didn't shut anything down. It is still open. You and a couple others just keep taking it off track to point fingers instead of finding valid ways to support your claims. **shrug**

 

[Tousi]

And my child had access to a complete language and that is why he is reading and writing the English language. NOT because English is better than ASL, but because I was able to provide him with a complete language model in the first 5 years of his life.

Maybe I missed it but access to which language model?

 

[jillio]

Where exactly did I throw around insults?

Only scrolling back a page...post#262.

Now do you want to discuss you and your behaviors and attitudes, or do you want to discuss SEE? The OP's title is about SEE.

 

[jillio]

And my child had access to a complete language and that is why he is reading and writing the English language. NOT because English is better than ASL, but because I was able to provide him with a complete language model in the first 5 years of his life.

How is it that you determined SEE to be a complete language model?

 

[GrendelQ]

I grew up with SEE in both home and educational settings.

I have met many, many and I mean many deaf adults who went through the same program and are still unable to read above 4th grade.

It boils down to one thing... language development. It must be done within the first five years of a child's life.

Very cool to get your perspective on this Banjo. What did you do differently to achieve a level of literacy that obviously blows those stats out of the water?

I absolutely agree that access to a full and fluent language in those first few years is critical -- regardless of mode or method. So much of the research I've seen backs that up. Finding the balance of a language that's accessible to the child AND provided by fluent users both in the home and out is the biggest challenge for a parent and is so dependent upon each child's situation, including location, resources, and most of all, abilities.